FVSL 2003/2004 Rumours and Stuff.

[Hands of Stone]

Must Get Over This, for CAT to Work

Originally posted by Coach
One of the major problems is alot of the older lads don't want to play in the Cat league?

This is a major reason why the CAT system is not working in both the FVSL and the VMSL, older players have this idea or stigma that CAT is bad soccer and that it is for young players coming out of youth, and I don't want to be coined a "CAT" player.
If players would get this out of thier head, and get over the fact that it is called CAT, the system could work.
Yes, you are playing on the reserve team, but you are also signed with the top Premier team, and could get minutes with them at any time.
Perhaps all Div. 1 and lower leagues should be classified as CAT, wheather the team is a reserve team or not, so that the players are playing the top teams and players that are not in Premier, so the older players that don't get minutes with the first team are still happy with the level of compitition and quality of soccer in that "CAT" system.

If both league would do this, I think more players would buy into the Club/CAT system instead of just playing for some average Div. 1 team that never has any chance at promotion or winning a Cup.
I would still like to be called a CAT in goal if that is okay, but we can change the name of the reserve system if people want.

HOS

 

[knvb]

To further HOS' point.

Perhaps all Div. 1 and lower leagues should be classified as CAT, whether the team is a reserve team or not,

OR, you could do away with "CAT" all together and just call it and have a Div 1, 2, 3 squad(s) and players can move up and down freely from one to the next with-in their own club.

Just a thought.

To be on Topic though... I hope Rangers join the Premier as stated above.

 

[Rangerforever]

Holy fcuk!

HOS and KNVB both making extremely valid points?

Will wonders never cease........

I agree, scrap CAT, then give CAT treatment to existing premier teams, the rest can earn it if they create a club system.
Furthermore, have Div. 2 feed into Div. 1, on and on, etc. within the club.

I must say Dude I don't know about the "coolness" of your lid, but your coif certainly puts mine to shame.


Rumoursschmumoursforever




Loose lips sink ships

 

[Big T]

Re: CAT Division

Originally posted by Rangerforever

I agree, scrap CAT, then give CAT treatment to existing premier teams, the rest can earn it if they create a club system.
Furthermore, have Div. 2 feed into Div. 1, on and on, etc. within the club.

If the Lions and Storm are moving to Div 1 then who the fcuk is still in this CAT division ? 4 teams ? Looks like the Rangers "CAT" would be their Div 1 squad. This stupid CAT division is the shits, and I agree with HOS, knvb and RF get rid of it and go to the lower divs being the feeders.

I also heard a rumour that GEU black knights are staying in Div 1....what gives, they were last in the division and they are not getting relagated....TR you got any info on that ??

I personally think the CAT teams should be brought over to DIV 1 and we should create 2 sides like VMSL.

Big T

 

[Dude]

It is cool Ranger...just ask me.

That's a good point...there may not be a Cat league to play in if all the teams pull out, or don't field a team.

 

[crafty cokcney]

CAT LEAGUE FORMAT

The CAT league format will not and does not work correctly for the FVSL or the VMSL so long as you have individual unaffiliated teams anywhere within the divisions.
Unless all clubs have teams in every division it will not work properly. This way you have your premier league with your premier team plus your CAT league with your Div 1,2 3 etc teams. This format is not condusive to how the Metro and Valley leagues work. This is Amateur football don't forget. You will always have new teams and breakaway teams who want a shot at getting promoted and becoming a successful club on their own, and why not, that's what we are all about. There is nothing wrong with the club system having teams in all divisions but there is no promotion of teams, only players moving up as they improve making way for younger guys to take their place in the lower divisions. We also have to accomodate clubs that maybe can only field two or three teams and not fill all divisions.
Taking this all into consideration my format would be as follows;

PREMIER

DIV 1 'A' DIV 1 'B'


WINNERS OF 1A & WINNERS OF 1B PROMOTED
BOTTOM TWO (2) TEAMS IN PREMIER RELEGATED

NO AFFILIATED CLUB TEAM CAN BE PROMOTED UNLESS ITS AFFILIATED CLUB IS ONE OF THE TWO RELEGATED TEAMS.

The next level of teams is the last and would be as many division two teams as the league could carry. This would require playoffs for promotion and relegation at the end of the season for four (4) spots. i.e. two up two down from Div 1A and Div 1B. with the bottom team in each Div 1 automatically relegated and the second from bottom team in each Div 1 going into the playoffs with each of the Div 2 winners and runners up. Again the club affiliation rule applies to promotion from Div 2 to Div 1.

This is a simple as it gets and allows new teams starting out in one of the Div 2 divisions to get to Premier, if they are good enough, as quickly as possible. Premier players and Div 1 players affiliated to the same club can play up or down. Affiliated Div 2 players may play up on permits to Div 1 or Premier.

Pakenham Cup - Premier & Div1
Presidents Cup - Div 2.

This format is so very close to the VMSL set up but without the CAT divisions and allows club teams to support each other and take advantage of the format for being an established club. It also allows for the new and breakaway teams to try and go it alone and if they get there then they have obviously earned it.

Cheers

 

[suburbanator]

Re: Re: CAT Division

Originally posted by Big T
This stupid CAT division is the shits, and I agree with HOS, knvb and RF get rid of it and go to the lower divs being the feeders.

Did you go to the AGM and vote? I think that would have been a good time to mention your dislike for the cat system.

I personally doubt they will have enough teams to fill the cat division. I have heard no rumors of any teams joining, and rumors of some leaving.

 

[Big T]

Re: Re: Re: CAT Division

Originally posted by suburbanator
Did you go to the AGM and vote? I think that would have been a good time to mention your dislike for the cat system.

I actually didn't get a chance to go this year . I have gone in the past and I will be sending my comments on the CAT system to the fv exec. Constructively of course.

Big T

 

[Hands of Stone]

Hit the Nail on the Head

Originally posted by Crafty Cokcney
You will always have new teams and breakaway teams who want a shot at getting promoted and becoming a successful club on their own, and why not, that's what we are all about.

This is the problem, you get good players who are not starting on any of the Premier teams, and instead of working hard and trying to win a spot on the top team while playing games with the CAT team, those players leave to these good "un-affiliated" teams who are trying to gain promotion. These players want a starting spot in Premier, but they don't want to do it throught the CAT system.
I hate to say, but it is getting to the point where it has to be all or nothing. You have all the clubs in the Leagues playing with CAT teams or you don't and have what the leagues where like 5 years ago before CAT.

HOS

 

[suburbanator]

Re: To not further knvb's point.

Originally posted by knvb
have a Div 1, 2, 3 squad(s) and players can move up and down freely from one to the next with-in their own club.

With players being able to transfer DOWN as well as up any time, would that not lead to "team stacking" problems either: (A) A team is facing relegation, so some higher ranked players transfer down to assist in an important match or (B) a division title was on the line, as well as possible promotion, so A team stacks their roster to win a game or two.

It kind of makes things unfair in many aspects. I can just imagine seeing the same 5-6 players playing in Premier, 1 and 2 games when the Sh*t's on the line.

More to the point although I am a supporter of the CAT system (when used properly) however is the FVSL is going to do this half-assed then they should BIN it completely.

 

[thisbuds4u]

Why do we have to bring players down? The only move that should be made is up to the level. I don't see a reason why so many people support the up and down system?
Right now the league formation sucks.

Just a suggestion.



PREMIER

(top 2 move up, bottom 2 move down)
DIV 1 A DIV 1 B

(same as above)

DIV 2 A DIV 2 B

(same as above)

DIV 3 (bottom half of last years Div.4 & new teams)
*If there are enough teams then have 2 groups in Div. 3

 

[Yoda]

You dont bud

You don't have to move players down, but the system is supposed to be an up and down system so that injured players, guys that are playing like shite, or even guys that got lucky in tryouts and made the team but should never have been there, can go to the CAT team for a while and improve or get back on track, and CAT players can step up into their spots.

 

[knvb]

You ok?

Sub, "higher" players also risk cards, and injury. Double edge sword I guess.

Just a suggestion on HOS'.

 

[Rangerforever]

Re: Oh wise Jedi warrior

Originally posted by Yoda
guys that are playing like shite, or even guys that got lucky in tryouts and made the team but should never have been there, can go to the CAT team for a while and improve or get back on track, and CAT players can step up into their spots.

Seems like you could be well experienced in this area.....

 

[thisbuds4u]

Yoda,

If that is what it's for then you need a 'cat' system. Too many teams will stack their teams when it comes to possible relagation. What about a transfer fee when you need to bring players down.

 

[Yoda]

Originally posted by thisbuds4u
Too many teams will stack their teams when it comes to possible relagation. What about a transfer fee when you need to bring players down.

That's why the CAT league doesn't have relegation so there is none of that going on. Assuming of course that the best players are in the CAT and Premier and not Div 1 and Premeir.

Why would you have a transfer fee to move down in your own club?

Ranger,
I have had experience.................in moving up of course.

 

[Rex]

Premier Teams !!

Heard the rumor from a good source that Delta Lions & SFC Rangers are both going to play in premier next season. Also heard Whalley Storm ,PocoCity Hotspurs & Port Moody Fury (old poco city team)are in Div1 & Centro Americano , GEU Black Knights are foresure being relegated to Div 2 for next season !!!
So is SFU going to have 2 premier teams next season ? Coach Or Rangerforever ????


PS
Sucks to be GEU !!!

 

[Milhouse]

I have heard from some unreliable sources ie Balsa that SFC is signing 11 guys to Premier and the rest to Div 1 say 20+. It will comprise of Rangers and Metro Ford guys.

I have to believe some of the Rangers are not happy with this arrangement. Hopefully they meet in the first round of the Pak.

 

[Big T]

Re: Premier Teams !!

Originally posted by Rex
Heard the rumor from a good source that Delta Lions & SFC Rangers are both going to play in premier next season. Also heard Whalley Storm ,PocoCity Hotspurs & Port Moody Fury (old poco city team)are in Div1 & Centro Americano , GEU Black Knights are foresure being relegated to Div 2 for next season !!!
So is SFU going to have 2 premier teams next season ? Coach Or Rangerforever ????


PS
Sucks to be GEU !!!

If this is true what teams are in the CAT ????? Here is the list of 7 from last year.....

1 Poco City Dominion
2 GEU Associates
3 Peace Arch United
4 Langley United
5 Chilliwack FC
6 North Delta Lions - GONE to PREMIER ???
7 Whalley Storm - GONE to DIV 1 ???

Plus Chilli was considering of dropping out last year as well..... So why have this division ??? Move over the 5 teams from CAT and form a "B" Side to Div 1....bring up 5 teams from Div 2 to complete the Div and then allow premier teams to use Div 1 players if need be.

It sucks to be in the CAT.

Big T

 

[Dude]

Looks like that is innevitable...another reshuffling.

I still think there is the issue of allowing the Premier to send down players, if needed. Maybe club teams can have a maximum of, say 5 premier signed players / week allowed to drop down to another club team and play. That would be easy to manage for the league, and still serve the same purpose as Cat.

Of course, now you'll have people bitching about "stacking"...you'll never make everyone happy, I guess.