Premier [VMSL Premier] Results & Banter December 2009

[Captain Shamrock]

considering both richmond and sapp play like lumberjacks and employ this wonderful style of hump it up and look for a knockdown, it's quite funny that both are accusing the other of crappy play. football is supposed to have flow, skill, and thinking, something sorely lacking from both sides. it would be nice to see them both look at some real football on the tele and see how defenders are allowed to intentionally pass to their own teamates. even westside tries to play...they may not have the personel, but they try and that's admirable

Browncow, you're taking the piss, man...I watched Westside 'play' last week. I will say it again, Sapperton were hack shows yesterday. That had nothing to do with the style of football being played by either. I'm not saying they didn't or couldn't play football at times but I am saying they were goons yesterday. Nothing more......nothing less.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Ha Ha Ha, I would prefer to see Sapp's whole team play tougher. Richmond has too many whiny girls who should be in synchronized diving at the Olympics. Its supposed to be a mans sport, so if the Richmond players can't stand some contact then they should go back to knitting.
If I were a Richmond player I would be pissed at CS for thinking they are too soft and need extra protection. The Richmond CAT team had no problems with two team having a physical game two weeks ago vs Sapp CAT team.

PV, you should probably worry about getting some points soon. Goonage isn't the way to go as you do have some skillfull players out there. If you're brand of 'tough' soccer is running through the backs of players then you're the toughest team in the league. BTW, two stonewall penalties weren't given for stupid wreckless challenges. Speaking of whining......number 10 was laughable throughout. Thanks for the entertainment on the sidelines.........his best comment was when it his corner and none of us ran 20 yards to get the ball for him. "Thanks for help guys."

 

[Kippax]

Captain, These skillful players you think Sapp have, were they not there yesterday? I didn't see any skill from Sapp yesterday. Sapp of the past played some nice soccer, the Sapp team yesterday had no skill and just tried to kick anything that moved. Anchored by the ever so skillful Woody. I doubt they will score 12 goals this season, they have 7 so far.

 

[browncrow]

That had nothing to do with the style of football being played by either..

wrong, it has everything to do with style. every team must have a system,a formation and a style of play. for example, there are teams who like to keep possesion and teams who like to play direct. most teams in this league who play direct do so because they have no other option and keeping the ball in the opposite half seems like a good game plan. west van plays a direct game but they do it well. after hammering the defense with tall, fast and skillful forwards and backing the defense up, they now create space for the defense to retain possession and midfield playmakers to get involved. from what I'VE seen, richmond just kicks the ball up no matter what and hopes but there is no backup game plan, there is no style, there is no football. just a few guys who think because they have ties to a passionate footballing nation that they know football, when in reality the way both you guys play is just wrong, lucky at times, but wrong, able to pull a result out ur asses once in a while, BUT WRONG.

 

[sixfyv]

If how we play is wrong, I don't ever wanna be right...

 

[Captain Shamrock]

wrong, it has everything to do with style. every team must have a system,a formation and a style of play. for example, there are teams who like to keep possesion and teams who like to play direct. most teams in this league who play direct do so because they have no other option and keeping the ball in the opposite half seems like a good game plan. west van plays a direct game but they do it well. after hammering the defense with tall, fast and skillful forwards and backing the defense up, they now create space for the defense to retain possession and midfield playmakers to get involved. from what I'VE seen, richmond just kicks the ball up no matter what and hopes but there is no backup game plan, there is no style, there is no football. just a few guys who think because they have ties to a passionate footballing nation that they know football, when in reality the way both you guys play is just wrong, lucky at times, but wrong, able to pull a result out ur asses once in a while, BUT WRONG.

Wrong? Which teams in the league play 'right'? ......BTW, which passionate footballing nation are you referring to?

 

[vanball]

wrong, it has everything to do with style. every team must have a system,a formation and a style of play. for example, there are teams who like to keep possesion and teams who like to play direct. most teams in this league who play direct do so because they have no other option and keeping the ball in the opposite half seems like a good game plan. west van plays a direct game but they do it well. after hammering the defense with tall, fast and skillful forwards and backing the defense up, they now create space for the defense to retain possession and midfield playmakers to get involved. from what I'VE seen, richmond just kicks the ball up no matter what and hopes but there is no backup game plan, there is no style, there is no football. just a few guys who think because they have ties to a passionate footballing nation that they know football, when in reality the way both you guys play is just wrong, lucky at times, but wrong, able to pull a result out ur asses once in a while, BUT WRONG.

What CS is saying is that whatever the style - Sapp were brutal off the ball and that Miro did not do his job - period. If you think that constitutes a "style" OK then. As to Richmond, its a team in transition from some longer play to better possession and I commend them for it. I don't know what you are watching but there is some decent stuff going on with them right now and that is the reason for the wins.

If you have possession, you don't have to play defense. A little more consistency in possession over the course of the game would be nice, but they are going in the right direction. If you think its just lumping the ball, you either weren't there or just expressing a partison view given the roasting the hackers you support are getting for their great game of rugby yesterday. In either case, your assessment is shite.

 

[browncrow]

all i tried to point out was how after a couple good results, CS was talking as though richmond doesn't play the same as sapp. from what i've seen they play very similar, regardless of what you may have seen in the last couple games. i say wait till you play someone with more points than you and see what happens because of history holds true richmond will resort back to the "grind one out" mentality and this ball possession you speak about will go out the door.

"If you have possession, you don't have to play defense"

where did you read that?

 

[vanball]

all i tried to point out was how after a couple good results, CS was talking as though richmond doesn't play the same as sapp. from what i've seen they play very similar, regardless of what you may have seen in the last couple games. i say wait till you play someone with more points than you and see what happens because of history holds true richmond will resort back to the "grind one out" mentality and this ball possession you speak about will go out the door.

"If you have possession, you don't have to play defense"

where did you read that?

What I am pointing out is that CS was referring to SAPP's late challenges and pushing, very little of which the ref picked up. As to type of play, Richmond really is playing now with more possession and intent. I believe that they beat Delta last week which is a team with more points, so??? And yes at times the wins need to be ground out - when you are down late in the game you can expect the good teams to push.

I could have made my point about possession a little clearer - sorry - I meant to say that possession play is desireable because it reduces the amount of defensive work you have to do, as you have the ball. Just my opinion from playing and coaching for probably too long - (opinions eh?)

 

[Mr Base]

Vanball some premier games a joke as far as possetion of ball goes. They turn the ball over on every third tatch. All the clubs changed their practices to small box work. You can see it on the field. Very seldom do you see fladding to one side and then a switch over. It is all just a forward movment. Players leave spaces, positions and go fishing. Many times they get cought doing it. It is hard to watch. I wish there was a community program to film some of the premier games. Guys would then see how it looks. I know they all have jobs and other things in life. Soccer is just a pass time. Has to be better for premier level.

 

[browncrow]

I could have made my point about possession a little clearer - sorry - I meant to say that possession play is desireable because it reduces the amount of defensive work you have to do, as you have the ball. Just my opinion from playing and coaching for probably too long - (opinions eh?)

in theory yes in vmsl reality no. because possession lasts mere seconds(5-10secs ok teams, 10-20secs good teams)
usually players play themselves out of position when they have the ball that when the team gives up possession it actually causes more defensive work.

 

[kaapie]

Kaapie has sobered up in time to write these comments. No thanks however to FCN who failed to fill my glass with anything on Saturday despite rumours of a flask!?
OK, enough of comparing these whining Sapps to rugby players. Rugby is a great sport filled with good sportsmanship despite the fierce competing that takes place on the field. The Sapps were indeed really dirty cheap shot artists that inexplicably got away with it due to the shocking ineptitude of the ref. My god, who can have thought anyone could have been worse that whining number 10? Impossible? Wrong, Milo was nothing short of bizarre. Anyone can have a bad day I suppose but this was beyond belief.
For all you out there that havenot watched RFC progressing, the team and entire club for that matter, is playing better and better football. The long ball is all but dead and so, takes us seriously, we're here to stay.
I must agree with Vanball, not that I'm bias at all, hmm,hmmmm, that the CAT A squad put on a great display of non-Canadian football on Saturday evening. It was an education in possession that would have made even Argentinian fans proud.
Only Stoke City pass the ball better LOL.....................

 

[Foot_Baller]

If I am looking at the results properly Sapp have now gone 6 weeks without scoring a goal... since Oct 25th! Not to commend dirty play but if my team were to go 6 games without a goal I would probably be at the point where I'd like to get a few kicks in as well!!

 

[Grimm]

Reality Check!

Amateur beer league football being played in a country that in most years is ranked somewhere around 80th in the world..being played in a league that is probably somewhere around 3rd-5th best in the country (based on recent Nationals results)...let's be honest, in the grand scheme of things we're all muckers/hacks

I have a student from France staying with me until May so I took him out to watch the Delta vs. WestVan game as he wanted to see what the best footie was like in these parts. He enjoyed himself but was shocked at what he felt was a lack of awareness, technical ability and positional play on display in the game. I tried to defend our league but he put things in persective by stating something to the effect of, "you would probably have similar observations on the quality of a beer league hockey game in small town France." It took me a second but it made sense.

Anyways, back to VMSL results. Contrary to the opinion of my student, I thought WestVan looked great and Delta just couldn't get their legs going. With their blend of youth and vets, I'm sure WV will be challenging for all trophies this year.

 

[kaapie]

Grimm, while what you have to say is true and I personally use a similar anaogy with respect to hockey in Chile, your comments are redundant. We all know where we're at. I know as an ex youth coach that my very best players that had a few tours in Europe didn't get a sniff. That includes many on the current RFC Prem, Div 1 and Cat A teams. But the point is that we have to keep trying and progressing.
Cheers mate.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

all i tried to point out was how after a couple good results, CS was talking as though richmond doesn't play the same as sapp. from what i've seen they play very similar, regardless of what you may have seen in the last couple games. i say wait till you play someone with more points than you and see what happens because of history holds true richmond will resort back to the "grind one out" mentality and this ball possession you speak about will go out the door.

"If you have possession, you don't have to play defense"

where did you read that?

How many points is Delta United on now? Metro Ford?

 

[Mr Base]

The reason our kids can not cut it in Europe is not due to bad soccer in this province. It is mostly due to fysical part of the game there and foot skill and foot speed. Our kids think some one elss should do the deffensive work for them and mosly react to late. Over there is, step in or step out, get up and play,shot you mouth and do your work.
What we need is few English refs to come here to toughen up our kids here. In our Premier lague now half of the guys are five seven and 135 lbs, over there they are six foot and 185 lbs same speed and better foot skill and more deffesevly oriented. Here most of the guy like to coach the coach how to coach them and how to take it easy. It is just for fun soccer here. That's why they stay here and can not make it there.

 

[club_i_champ]

If I am looking at the results properly Sapp have now gone 6 weeks without scoring a goal... since Oct 25th! Not to commend dirty play but if my team were to go 6 games without a goal I would probably be at the point where I'd like to get a few kicks in as well!!

Woody must have been pissed off right from the opening whistle. Hack show to say the least alone with the remainder of the Sapp back line. Their left back in the 2nd half was talented and a sportsman IMO. A Bright spot for Sapp if there is one.

There isn't much room in this league for muckers, or within our club apparently, so I rather enjoyed my battle with Woody and the Sapp keeper. They can dish it out, all over the park, but when Woody is faced with the prospect of taking some of his own medicine, he ended up pissing and moaning louder then his team mate #10, their team Captain!

As far as RFC goes, we seemed to have turned a corner since our diabolical defeat to Croatia, grabbing hold of 10 out of a possible 12 points, but there is still A LONG WAY TO GO. Having said that, I'm not sure if anyone else has picked up on this, but all the questioning of our tactics and quality etc etc is coming from the TTP regulars, which is fine, that is the purpose of the forum, to gain outside points of view, but all the 'praise' we seem to be getting is coming from TTPers, WITHIN OUR CLUB! Enjoy the result and get on with it, don't let it get to your heads lads!

CICwonderingwhathisnewroleinthesquadisallabout

 

[Sir M]

Re: Reality Check!

Grimm, is your young French room mate comparing local amateur soccer to professional soccer in France I wonder?

 

[kaapie]

Good post club i champ. I agree. In time if we play better football the word will spread. The praise isn't required but never hurts. Mr Base, off base IMHO. Just more competition in Europe. That's all. Our best players don't get pushed so they peak and can't improve. It applies to all sports. As for the referreeing, while I think it sucks most of the time I actually think our refs don't call enough further hindering the development of kdis playing the game properly the way the rest of the world does. The answer is that we need much better coaches at the youngest ages. We shoudl at least be able to acquire technical skills at that age. One asumes that then eventually we'll improve as a country. I can tell you from first hand experience that the American sin some states are doing it right and there is a huge gap between their development and ours. This doesn't apply to all areas of Canada but is an accurate generalization. We have recent local examples of successful programs in both Richmond, girls and boys current programs, and a few years ago in Tssawassen where a small group of dads and a professional coach did a great job. It can be done but yes, we have a long way to go.