Div 2 D2 MOTW Week 15

[WestCoast]

JBN

I really don't feel there is that huge of a difference from the lower to mid pack div.2 teams compared to the top teams in div.3 that another div.2 couldn't work. Unless your team has changed drastically I feel most div.3 and possibly top div.4 teams could compete with you guys. Top teams in div.2 are another story, we all know Inter should be in div.1 and should have been there years ago. With only 4 teams coming out of div.4 is just dumb. I have no problem with the way it is now as long as more teams go up and down in the lower levels(and yes I do mean Div.2 in the lower levels) If you weren't considered lower level they would have put you in the Pak Cup. But we all know the jump up to Div.1 is the real jump. When 4 teams in my division alone have 10 wins in 15 games and only 1 might get promotion is just funny. The only reason there isn't just one clear team running shop is because there is more then 1 dominate team. In years past that has been the case(you guys,Strikers.ACBC) not this year. All it does is if you are in 8th spot in div.3 you can continue to be beat and at the bottom every year.

If you don't agree with 2 div. 2's then there should at least be another div.3 added next season and a div.4 dropped. Then top 3 in div.3 move up bottom 3 in div.2 move down. Good teams should not be held back.

 

[Chelsea4life]

WC I fully agree, and I truly hope this cup run shows it!!! JBN and the rest of div.2, watch yourselves becuase there is some talented div.3/4 teams! I know Inter is a different team im sure from summer, but when we played them with our squad we have now, they barely beat us 2-1 with 2 late goals. Granted im sure they are better, and MB10 will have something to say about it.... Our div.4 squad (IMHO) can quite easily beat and play with the div.2 squad. BUT!!!!! WC, its a matter of consistancy, and that is what makes the Div.2/1 teams.... Im very lucky this year we always get a full team (-1 or 2, but now have call downs).... but i find thats what its all about being able to prove yourself, and we have not done it.... neither us, whalley or any div.4 team deserves a spot yet, div.2 teams have earned the right to be there....
Saying that, I hope the league looks at some of our rediculous score lines and promotes more than 4 teams to div.3..... And to all you div.2 teams, I hope you get smoked by Whalley, Sparta and us WRU boys.... Good Luck

 

[johnnybluenose]

Sorry, you're both wrong and your comments come from playing in the lower div's (with some slack cut for your help of WRU A C4L) imho.

Div 2 has been competitive aside from a few blowouts by some teams of other teams, except for Marga, and on occasion Stolo... and BCU's lack of guys and forfeits.

My case is made for me. If you airlift in Abbey United from D3 for Marga then you're all good. Abbey absolutely ran away with their div this year, the other pool of D3 is fairly tight at the top, and sure a few of those teams could give Stolo and BCU a run and likely even beat them, but that's what relegation and promotion is all about.

Most D3 and 4 teams cannot compete with the Nomads, or WRU A, or LUFC Dynamo and Young Guns and Yotes... in fact I have watched a lot of D1 games this year and the quality of D1 isn't far off of D2, the gap is tighter between D2 and D1 than the gap is between Prem and D1. The difference in the D1 and D2 games is intensity and physicality... conversely the difference between D2 and the lower divisions is quality of player throughout any given teams roster. I'd wager most if not all of the teams in D2 except Marga have a good number of guys capable of playing Prem, I know we have at least 4 or 5. Inter is full of them, Yotes have a good number, and Young Guns have a large number of guys currently playing Prem or just a year removed from playing Prem, not too many D3 and 4 teams can say that.

I'm sure this will be proven out come cup time. We'll have to wait and see.

~StandingToBeCorrected.

 

[cascadesoccer]

I do agree with JBN and would like to give my perspective of mens, since ive played it since I was young playing div 4 for my uncle (as a call up) when I was 14-15, all the way to prem in my 20's.

Premier: Premier now is not what it was when I played it 2002-2009. It was older players, big, fast and strong and extremely physical with a high level of skill. Today its extremely skillfull, extremely fast paced and full of youth, with the occassional "vet" and rarely the massive back line you saw with the likes of GEU and Poco. You see teams like Poco now mid 20's to early 30's, tons of pace, acres of skill. Lots of teams like Abby and TWU, have lots of skill but rely on certain players to get by until their university guys are done the season, and they become stronger half way through. Ionce heard a coach saying "there are premier players, and players who can play premier" it makes perfect sense.

Div 1: There is usually quite a gap between the top 6 premier teams and all of div 1 except the top 2 or 3 teams, its has been like this for a long time. You have had teams such as ACBC and SFC Rangers, who stayed atop their divisions for many years and stuck with div 1 not accepting promotion. And you rarely see a mid pack div 1 take out a premier team in cup.

Div 2: There is a difference between the div 2 before and the div 2 this year. This year it is alot tighter and alot closer with the bottom teams from div 1 and the top 2 from last year staying in div 2. It shows how close teams like Nomads, Inter and Knights, Yotes are with the Div 1 teams of last year.

Div 3 and 4: This can get tricky as alot of people dont realize that when U21 teams finish and stick together they usually start in Div 4 and usually wipe the floor with most competition just like Stolo and FV Red Devils have done. The problem with the young U21's coming up is that there speed and skill does take a hit once they get into the div 3 and 2 when size and speed become more common and teams use their size and skill (insert Knights) and take out the young fellas. Div 4 is stereo typed as the old players not ready for masters who lack in skill. This is definitely not the case. Port moody has a team that has been together for 14 years. and Won div 4. WRUB has players like C4L fantastic goal keeper playing well below his level, but plays with friends. Celtic has the same thing, we have ex prem players, university players and metro players. Were not young and super fit anymore most of us over 26 some early 30's, but we love to play and still have a fairly high level of skill, just like port moody gunners and teams like abby. It doesn't matter what division you are in, the top teams from the division below you can give you a run for your money. "any given sunday" right. The chances of teams winning a few divisions above are low, but it can happen, thats why we play this game right. The lower divisions are looked at mostly as weaker by skill and speed, but personally I find it after playing everywhere that its more so of commitment and fun more than lack of talent. There are tons of guys who can still play at higher levels but choose to be with friends and where the politics and bullshit is no longer and just want to be with the guys and have pint, but where they play still offers them enough to keep that competitive edge.

 

[johnnybluenose]

agreed, you could cole's note's it this way:
Prem: Top div of competitive group, train often twice a week, take it very seriously
D1: Middle or competitive group, train weekly, take it seriously, some former Prem guys that can't take it as seriously anymore.
D2: bottom end of Competitive, a hybrid of rec and competitive. Teams trying to make it up, try hards, and aging vets of the top divisions from years past.
D3-4: The odd team trying to make it to the competitive divisions, but mostly recreational in nature, perhaps train, but would say that teams that do train seriously and regularly other than just scrimmages are the exception and not the rule.

I also like your comment re: Prem Players and players that could play Prem. I've never heard that before and it hits the nail right on the head.

 

[WestCoast]

Well I guess you added 4-5 players that could play premier. Cause a couple years ago the only one was Ryan. So I must be wrong. Coyotes must have picked up guys too, because they were good but never great.

I think you guys just tell your wifes you play some high level soccer and can't admit it because they read all these post before you have to clean your room.

Like I said before if div.2 was considered a high division you would have been put in Pak Cup. But you get left to play with us muckers. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

So from what you are saying JBN is you're team will shite pump a div.4 squad? I would love to see that, with you playing more then 5 mins? I heavily doubt that.

 

[4thplacetrophy]

So from what you are saying JBN is you're team will shite pump a div.4 squad? I would love to see that, with you playing more then 5 mins? I heavily doubt that.

In a one of game anything can happen, i think his point he is trying to make is that week in week out a div 4 squad wouldn't hold there own (marga is a perfect example) and i have to agree with him. Yeah WR "b" are not a bad squad on there day, and i believe last year knocked the Young Guns out of the cup? And in the summer league game you speak of C4L how many shots did you face before finally being beaten then was beaten again within 2 mins? The point i'm trying to make is that you could sit and defend and try go to penaltys but in a league game you can't do that, as a draw in most cases isn't enough. Did i get that right JBN, was that your point?

 

[WestCoast]

In a one of game anything can happen, i think his point he is trying to make is that week in week out a div 4 squad wouldn't hold there own (marga is a perfect example) and i have to agree with him. Yeah WR "b" are not a bad squad on there day, and i believe last year knocked the Young Guns out of the cup? And in the summer league game you speak of C4L how many shots did you face before finally being beaten then was beaten again within 2 mins? The point i'm trying to make is that you could sit and defend and try go to penaltys but in a league game you can't do that, as a draw in most cases isn't enough. Did i get that right JBN, was that your point?

I have played against teams that are in div.2 in the past and know that top teams in div.3 can compete. I feel some div.4 teams can compete. Never seen Knights play and haven't played Inter since the Rams days so can't speak about them.

It just funny how guys think this div.2 is this huge jump. As for the one and done excuse is pretty funny too. Seems almost like a cop out for when one of these teams I speak of lose to a good div.3 or div.4 squad.

 

[4thplacetrophy]

I have played against teams that are in div.2 in the past and know that top teams in div.3 can compete. I feel some div.4 teams can compete. Never seen Knights play and haven't played Inter since the Rams days so can't speak about them.

It just funny how guys think this div.2 is this huge jump. As for the one and done excuse is pretty funny too. Seems almost like a cop out for when one of these teams I speak of lose to a good div.3 or div.4 squad.

I'd say the Pheonix have a stronger resemblance of the rams, but no div 2 from div 3 won't be a big jump but from div 4 it will. The top 3 or 4 in div 3 will hold there in div 2 but after this season's relegation's then the shape of div 2 will be much better. WC i can guarantee without seeing your team play that the Nomads are a better team than your team and any other div 4 team.

 

[The Franchise]

anything can happen last year Gunners lost to a now div 4 team in first round....

 

[WestCoast]

I'd say the Pheonix have a stronger resemblance of the rams, but no div 2 from div 3 won't be a big jump but from div 4 it will. The top 3 or 4 in div 3 will hold there in div 2 but after this season's relegation's then the shape of div 2 will be much better. WC i can guarantee without seeing your team play that the Nomads are a better team than your team and any other div 4 team.

Don't disagree they are better but I feel we could compete with them. And of JBN was marking me for 90 mins then I know we could compete.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Westcoast: To use Cascades theory (which i agree with) about Prem Players and players that can play Prem, the Nomads have way more than 1.
My humble opinion is that we have player for sure that fall in the "prem player" catagory: Carnihore.
We then have many guys that could play prem, but don't for whatever reason, including Strength & Honour, shorty007, housearrest, Paul, & Turnbull to name just a few, as well as we have two guys that played top college ball not too long ago in Tony and Matt, but both have only played a small amount of games for us this year because of injuries.

Aside from them, the rest of our team is solid at the D2 level and could play D1 and would be dominant to rock solid players in the lower divisions... I'd be a potential 90 minute a game player at certainly the D4 level and probably D3 level, I'm a depth sub at the D2 level... and probably have never been much more than that ever. I'm man enough to admit it, and not come on TTP and come up with reasons or excuses why I should, or my team should, be playing in a different division.

This is just my team, Inter is chalk full of Prem and could play Prem players, same with Young Guns etc. So there will be a trend there. based on any given Sunday, the only team undeserving of being in the division is Marga, and a case could be made, solely on geography for Stolo not being in the league (slow down that's some TTP) and BCU (based only on committment this season outside n10h's control)

I'm sure some teams that were solid D3 teams in the past and teams that have been in D2 in the past have made some improvements etc. this will all flesh out in the cup.

Some teams will be upset, and like every year some team or teams will go on a cinderella run, but at the end of the day I'll eat my hat if a D3/4 team wins it and I'd be surprised if there was a D3/4 team even in the semi's based on the quality I've seen throughout D2 this season and the odd game I've seen of D3/4. Lucky draws and hard fought wins can get you to the Quarters... imho the only team in 3/4 that could go deep, again just imho, is Abbey Utd SC from 3B, but they've been playing softballs all year and will need to draw some stiff competition early and then find form against them, because a team like WRU B (Vault) playing some rec hacks in D4 one week is a world apart from playing Inter or Yotes or Young Guns.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Don't disagree they are better but I feel we could compete with them. And of JBN was marking me for 90 mins then I know we could compete.

We are a far deeper team than we were two/three years ago now.

 

[italian_stallion21]

Depth is probably one of the biggest differences too, guys coming off the bench in D2 are (on most occasions) better than the starters for these D3/D4 teams. Most D2 teams won't have a weakness you can exploit like we'll be able to exploit you. I know that there will be a couple players for a D3/D4 side that are going to have nightmares of Shorty007 or whatever burning them time and time again. You won't have the options to bring on to defend him, and that's just one guy. Most D2 teams have a bunch that you have to worry about, so good luck trying to stop them. WC, I haven't watched your team, but I know if we meet up we will absolutely shite pump you. As much as you'd like to prove yourself against these not-so-great D2 teams, be careful what you wish for.

 

[WestCoast]

There is just way too much crack being smoked in this conversation. Depth? I'm totally confused didn't the Nomads get shite pumped the last two weeks by a combined score of 14-0? Sounds like depth to me. Consistent is right. I expect this kind of talk from prem/div.1 players but div.2? really? 90 mins in div.4? I guess your robotic knee came in. IS21 if we do(by miracle) ever play up to you're teams high level could you please have JBN mark me. I want to be taught the game off soccer. Next thing you know Kjohn will be telling me that he could play premier if he wanted.... oh wait he did tell me that. Must be some fantasy water on the Nomads sideline.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I don't know what you're talking about Duff, I know kjohnsob and he'd never say that unless hilariously drunk or taking the piss, conveniently what this site is called.

I can't play 90 Mins in D2 because I have better players that demand those minutes not because I'm physically unable to.

We lost those last few games because we played full strength teams with not even 9 of our own guys and had to rely on callups, no HA in net, and play our depth players out of position to make a team to avoid a forfeit. We managed to avoid, all of our injuries etc considering, threat of relegation and now have our bodies back full and healthy for the most important part of the year: Cup (since we shat the bed early and lost all hope of competing for the division after week 5)

Lack of depth: See BCU. (sorry elbow and hamburglar, but it had to be said if only to defend my guys honour)

Nothing fantasy on the Nomads sideline, we are being inundated by our D1 team for help weekly and we have a player that our prem group wants out regularly... perhaps that comes from the fantasy water also: Note that these requests are being made of our midpack D2 team... we're not even a top team in this division from a results and statistical perspective.

I think the pot is calling the kettle black on the crack smoking accusation.

 

[elbowroom]

Lack of depth: See BCU. (sorry elbow and hamburglar, but it had to be said if only to defend my guys honour)

We have horrible commitment levels but I would say our depth is good.

 

[Chelsea4life]

Rofl, we need to change this thread to "Division 4 teams that want to promoted and are getting tired of shite pumping teams 10-0". You guys are both right, WC div.2 has got better, I know this because I have played a bunch of games up there. JBN, what WC is trying to get accross is "I think", there should be more than just 1 div.4 team (from our division) being promo'd. But JBN and his squad have earned the right to play in div.2, and you guys area great squad at Peace Arch. That being said, I hope Whalley faces you guy and wins!!! Both of you go home, have XMAS with ur families and relax!

 

[johnnybluenose]

i would agree, id say that you should automatically promote one team from each pool up from d four to d three, and then treat other gaps in points with promo/relegation...like the last team to not automatically go down still goes if the points gap is worse than the point gaps from the d four team not automatically promoted or some such other mechanism.

 

[number10hamburgler]

Lack of depth: See BCU. (sorry elbow and hamburglar, but it had to be said if only to defend my guys honour)

No worries jbn, lack of depth is the biggest problem I had to deal with this year. Once those injuries hit, the Div.2 team was decimated. But it's a great learning lesson: to compete for Division titles you have to have both a strong desire and commitment to win every game, but depth to cover things like injuries. One off Cups are actually the easiest to prepare for, but that long haul of consistently playing well and having good numbers every week, is the biggest challenge. Hats off to all the teams promoted and fighting for promotion, except Poco, that was just money. lol

To add to your conversation though, I've played against most of the Div.2 and Div.3 teams this year, played with WRU in Summer, scrimmaged couple times against SP Lions this year at practice, and seen most of the Div.1 teams from last year. And most of the top half (#1,2,3) Div.3 teams could hold their own easily in Div.2 and some fight for promotion. Even mid-pack teams like Metro Ford, who are fit, skilled, played a while together, could challenge. And some of the top Div.4 could also hold their own. Usually for Div.4 teams it's coming out with a strategy and playing with no fear.

When I say fear that might change for some after they face the NFS Knights. Hope no one is drinking on their sidelines and decides to rush the field. LOL Anyways, most Div.2 teams have gotten there cause they have earned it, so they are no push overs.

Anyways, it really all depends on that team's ambition and commitment to winning. Doesn't matter in what division.
I know for example WRU B has been in Div.3/Div.4 for a while, they have been a team teetering on getting committed, and they finally did this year, and it looks like they will win the division this year. And WRU B has some solid players, for example the best player on the WRU A team that we played against 2 weeks ago was Zack who plays on WRU B.

In the end, Hope both Whalley and Nomads meet in the Cup, are you ready, are you ready? Let's get it on..

On a sidenote, I don't what the PAU Div.1 and Prem need help on, just have a limo ready to pick up Kush and Taki and all the PAU teams will do well, and Div.2 is gonna be smokin competitive next year with Abby Utd, Celtic, and Pomo Gunners. I think the new alignment is good. After a couple seasons, it will really make the Prem, Div.1 and Div.2 levels really competitive.....and only those Div.3 and Div.4 teams that really want it will crack Div.2.