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BC Provincial Cup Draw MEN 2009
- Thread starter Sir M
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johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Sure it is. End goal is to get to Nationals and win the sucker.
If not, your dream isn't big enough.
You play from September to March to get here. Not vice-versa.
Well to have a single game knock out tournament to determine a BC rep for the Nationals is a joke in itself. In my opinion it should be a 2 game series agg. like everywhere else in the world so one game or an offical cannot deside the fate of our Provincial Champion.
We need to get better officials aswell.
Our game too had some brutal calls both ways. I just never said much because we won but we had a clear cut breakaway in the box (Canavor)chopped down ball continued not touched and no call. Norvan Im sure had a few offsides called back that from where I was standing looked onside and I had to chuckle to myself as it kinda even things up.
And more but I wont get into it.
I do believe we have an official crisis on our hands. The abuse they take,the travel involved and the shtiiy shiity pay the recieve are 3 reasons why very few get involved into this hobby...cause thats what it is. I for one would never in a million years take up a whistle and jump in the middle for that.
Infact my buddy runs a second hand sports store and the newest equipment for sale in there are the tons of small and medium Refs kits being resold cause so many younger people drop out of this (again) hobby. Why? ,well you know.
What do do??
Short term answer,,,not much anyone can do exept start a grass roots campain like hockey did on how not to act towards an official (you remember the comercials on tv)
Long term answer,,,Make Officiateing a job not a hobby, and pay the officials more. They deserve to be paid for travel expences and paid enough so that we get younger people interested in this new career. Then with more officials you can choose who earns the right to ref Premier games and reward those who move up the ladder with more pay. A tiered pay structure so the better refs get paid more and ref the better divisions and games.
Yes it will take a few (5 id say) years to make this all happen,,but it would work.
And for those who say we cant afford it,,take your empties in.. The div 3 teams would still be paying less and the better teams would know what responcability they would be getting into as they move up. And were not talking about alot of money here,,$60 bucks a game more in my opiniun and thats only a toonie a guy more per game.
Remember we are a hockey country and most have played hockey and you all know to play hockey you pay 10 times what you pay for soccer. (Skates are $300 alone plus sharpening every 2 weeks. Tape every game. New stick every couple weeks. Ice time rentals at 5am. plus all the other equipment and supplies.) Soccer has it $$$ easy.
Also how do you fire a volinteer. We put up with shti refs because we have no choise as there is a shortage. So short of officials are we that the FVSL cannot find guys to run lines for Div 1.
We should have linesmen for all soccer games cause that is what is supposed to be out on the dam field,,3 . Makes for a better game and safer for the players as there is more eyes on the field and it also makes the center a better ref cause there are other piers out there watching him/her do his/her job. Most arguments start with bad offside calls and we all know its impossable to call the offside unless your a linesman.
So guys bash me if you want,,I say pay the officials way more and in time you will be able to pick and choose the right guys for the job.
We need to get better officials aswell.
Our game too had some brutal calls both ways. I just never said much because we won but we had a clear cut breakaway in the box (Canavor)chopped down ball continued not touched and no call. Norvan Im sure had a few offsides called back that from where I was standing looked onside and I had to chuckle to myself as it kinda even things up.
And more but I wont get into it.
I do believe we have an official crisis on our hands. The abuse they take,the travel involved and the shtiiy shiity pay the recieve are 3 reasons why very few get involved into this hobby...cause thats what it is. I for one would never in a million years take up a whistle and jump in the middle for that.
Infact my buddy runs a second hand sports store and the newest equipment for sale in there are the tons of small and medium Refs kits being resold cause so many younger people drop out of this (again) hobby. Why? ,well you know.
What do do??
Short term answer,,,not much anyone can do exept start a grass roots campain like hockey did on how not to act towards an official (you remember the comercials on tv)
Long term answer,,,Make Officiateing a job not a hobby, and pay the officials more. They deserve to be paid for travel expences and paid enough so that we get younger people interested in this new career. Then with more officials you can choose who earns the right to ref Premier games and reward those who move up the ladder with more pay. A tiered pay structure so the better refs get paid more and ref the better divisions and games.
Yes it will take a few (5 id say) years to make this all happen,,but it would work.
And for those who say we cant afford it,,take your empties in.. The div 3 teams would still be paying less and the better teams would know what responcability they would be getting into as they move up. And were not talking about alot of money here,,$60 bucks a game more in my opiniun and thats only a toonie a guy more per game.
Remember we are a hockey country and most have played hockey and you all know to play hockey you pay 10 times what you pay for soccer. (Skates are $300 alone plus sharpening every 2 weeks. Tape every game. New stick every couple weeks. Ice time rentals at 5am. plus all the other equipment and supplies.) Soccer has it $$$ easy.
Also how do you fire a volinteer. We put up with shti refs because we have no choise as there is a shortage. So short of officials are we that the FVSL cannot find guys to run lines for Div 1.
We should have linesmen for all soccer games cause that is what is supposed to be out on the dam field,,3 . Makes for a better game and safer for the players as there is more eyes on the field and it also makes the center a better ref cause there are other piers out there watching him/her do his/her job. Most arguments start with bad offside calls and we all know its impossable to call the offside unless your a linesman.
So guys bash me if you want,,I say pay the officials way more and in time you will be able to pick and choose the right guys for the job.
Wow...are you ever missing the point.
I takes a massive team effort to get to the point those two teams got to, and to have it brought into question- apparently by all parties concerned- is a shame. What he is saying is...ah, forget it.
Alan reffed our match and was great, BTW. It was a muckerfest, and both teams were playing the same brand... and he let us go at it. Pulled out the cards only once required. Some hot-head keeper in all black had to be spoken to a few times, though. Idiot.
Gorgeous stuff. Well done Alan.
11:00 pm Saturday Night - arrival home from 2 weeks in Maui.
2:00 am - drunken call from Guinness telling me about their heartbreaker.
11:00 am - 1 hour training session with Pedro De Nobriga to work off the rust.
4:30 pm - Kickoff.
6:15 pm - Victory
Next 5 hours - Pints, Steaks, good times.
That is a solid 24 hours.
Looking forward to the Gorge... can't wait!
Gorgeous stuff. Well done Alan.
11:00 pm Saturday Night - arrival home from 2 weeks in Maui.
2:00 am - drunken call from Guinness telling me about their heartbreaker.
11:00 am - 1 hour training session with Pedro De Nobriga to work off the rust.
4:30 pm - Kickoff.
6:15 pm - Victory
Next 5 hours - Pints, Steaks, good times.
That is a solid 24 hours.
Looking forward to the Gorge... can't wait!
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
...peanuts or just the empty shells?
I am not missing the point Mr. Dude, sir.
The rules are what they are...good bad or indifferent. I stated that every teams goal should be to get to Nats and win it. Do you not agree that when setting goals that if you "cannot see it in your mind, you will not see it in reality?"
I opined that the fact that a ref determined the outcome of a game is either a bad reflection on the teams and thereby giving me an indication that they probably wouldn't have made it out of the bc's..or the referee had a real screamer.
I am stirring the pot, as long as we are on tutorials, Mr. Dude, sir.
You're welcome for the replay
I am not missing the point Mr. Dude, sir.
The rules are what they are...good bad or indifferent. I stated that every teams goal should be to get to Nats and win it. Do you not agree that when setting goals that if you "cannot see it in your mind, you will not see it in reality?"
I opined that the fact that a ref determined the outcome of a game is either a bad reflection on the teams and thereby giving me an indication that they probably wouldn't have made it out of the bc's..or the referee had a real screamer.
I am stirring the pot, as long as we are on tutorials, Mr. Dude, sir.
You're welcome for the replay
I saw the whole SU/Clan game and the last 30+ minutes was probably the craziest thing I've ever seen in football, full stop. I haven't the slightest idea how articulate the goings on that will ever do it the proper justice, but let me add this, Clan-Bus is their own worst enemy. They've never met a moan they couldn't get out and a select group of them, no matter the injustice they felt just took place, were completely and totally out of order and they should be embarrassed. The whole last 10 minutes bordered, honestly, on insanity and I could totally see why a ref would be "scared". I was a tad scared for him.
Totally neutral, every card, IMO, except for Riz's first (that one was laugher) was justified and every PK was indeed a hand ball as I was standing right there. Like them or not a ball that hits an arm and stops progress is a hand ball and PK when it's in the box. The scary part is if Clan could have held it in check they could have won. Deblasio scored two wonderful goal while being down a man or two and almost nicked a third. TK was/is unreal. The guy causes havoc all over the place.
Totally neutral, every card, IMO, except for Riz's first (that one was laugher) was justified and every PK was indeed a hand ball as I was standing right there. Like them or not a ball that hits an arm and stops progress is a hand ball and PK when it's in the box. The scary part is if Clan could have held it in check they could have won. Deblasio scored two wonderful goal while being down a man or two and almost nicked a third. TK was/is unreal. The guy causes havoc all over the place.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
I'm looking forward to Gorge too, Sixfyv. There should be a few people making the trip over.....
As for the reffing 'stuff'....have you guys even thought about the paper work that poor ref has to do? 5 red cards.......no wonder he was crying at the end of the game.
All joking aside, I didn't see anything but have to somehow feel a bit for the Columbus/Clan guys....having said that, some people thought 3 of them were deserved and others said something else. We had the same thing in our womens' game yesterday.....there will always be people claiming to see something to save themselves from 'embarrassment'......SixFyv was spot on, Alain did a great job in the last 35 minutes I saw. There was very little for anyone to complain about as it was a bit of a 'muckfest' as was mentioned by SixFyv.
What time is the game on Saturday, Sixfyv or the Gorge Lad who was on(Cages?) Sorry, I can't be arsed to find the page it was on.
As for the reffing 'stuff'....have you guys even thought about the paper work that poor ref has to do?
5 red cards.......no wonder he was crying at the end of the game. All joking aside, I didn't see anything but have to somehow feel a bit for the Columbus/Clan guys....having said that, some people thought 3 of them were deserved and others said something else. We had the same thing in our womens' game yesterday.....there will always be people claiming to see something to save themselves from 'embarrassment'......SixFyv was spot on, Alain did a great job in the last 35 minutes I saw. There was very little for anyone to complain about as it was a bit of a 'muckfest' as was mentioned by SixFyv.
What time is the game on Saturday, Sixfyv or the Gorge Lad who was on(Cages?) Sorry, I can't be arsed to find the page it was on.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
I'm looking forward to Gorge too, Sixfyv. There should be a few people making the trip over.....
As for the reffing 'stuff'....have you guys even thought about the paper work that poor ref has to do? 5 red cards.......no wonder he was crying at the end of the game.
All joking aside, I didn't see anything but have to somehow feel a bit for the Columbus/Clan guys....having said that, some people thought 3 of them were deserved and others said something else. We had the same thing in our womens' game yesterday.....there will always be people claiming to see something to save themselves from 'embarrassment'......SixFyv was spot on, Alain did a great job in the last 35 minutes I saw. There was very little for anyone to complain about as it was a bit of a 'muckfest' as was mentioned by SixFyv.
What time is the game on Saturday, Sixfyv or the Gorge Lad who was on(Cages?) Sorry, I can't be arsed to find the page it was on.
As for the reffing 'stuff'....have you guys even thought about the paper work that poor ref has to do?
5 red cards.......no wonder he was crying at the end of the game. All joking aside, I didn't see anything but have to somehow feel a bit for the Columbus/Clan guys....having said that, some people thought 3 of them were deserved and others said something else. We had the same thing in our womens' game yesterday.....there will always be people claiming to see something to save themselves from 'embarrassment'......SixFyv was spot on, Alain did a great job in the last 35 minutes I saw. There was very little for anyone to complain about as it was a bit of a 'muckfest' as was mentioned by SixFyv.
What time is the game on Saturday, Sixfyv or the Gorge Lad who was on(Cages?) Sorry, I can't be arsed to find the page it was on.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Sorry, it was Tunes........not sure where the fcuk I got Cages from........
oh you didnt know
New Member
because you're a pervert
Mr. KNVB for someone who watched the entire game you think you'd report properly who scored the two Columbus goals. It wasn't Deblasio (who played a hell of a game and hit the post in the last few seconds) but Tynan who scored the two goals.
Get the goggles off and report what you saw properly or else stay silent and read. BTW the question that needs to be asked is where do referees such as this come from and how do they get assigned to important games? This particular referee from what I have been reading is a mystery...nobody knows who he is. You would think that a better job of assignments would have been done by the head of officiating.
With regards to the red cards, there were times throughout the game (especially in the first half) when guys tackled from behind and were not carded. BRFC, what about the tackle from behind on Tino Cucca by Stallion in the second half? This was not punished properly.
The biggest problem with our soccer in my opinion is the officiating in the league. The lack of consistency (not only from game to game) but within any particular game itself displayed by the referees means that games cannot be played at the highest level. Until this is fixed, something like this will happen again and to another team. Good luck.
Get the goggles off and report what you saw properly or else stay silent and read. BTW the question that needs to be asked is where do referees such as this come from and how do they get assigned to important games? This particular referee from what I have been reading is a mystery...nobody knows who he is. You would think that a better job of assignments would have been done by the head of officiating.
With regards to the red cards, there were times throughout the game (especially in the first half) when guys tackled from behind and were not carded. BRFC, what about the tackle from behind on Tino Cucca by Stallion in the second half? This was not punished properly.
The biggest problem with our soccer in my opinion is the officiating in the league. The lack of consistency (not only from game to game) but within any particular game itself displayed by the referees means that games cannot be played at the highest level. Until this is fixed, something like this will happen again and to another team. Good luck.
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
It happens in the world cup,
It happens in the FA Cup,
It happens in the BPL,
It happens in the CONCACAF Gold Cup.
It happens in the USL at Swangard for Damn Whitecaps games,
why is it such a mystery if it happens to us in Amateur Senior Soccer (Whether it is BC Provincials or Knights League Summer Div 4 south)
The Mr. Dude, sir, pointed this out to me last year when I had a meltdown of nuclear proportions in a Summer League game:
It is probably more the way YOU handle the poor officiating that compounds the problem than if you just let him make a bad call and get on with it rather than screaming at him, putting him under immense pressure to get the next call(s) right, which of course he is going to bungle if he has to start thinking if he gets them right or not.
Dude is a man of wisdom. I tell you
*edit: It might have been Utah, knvb, Frank, or Ranger Forever, but I digress... they are all men of wisdom
It happens in the FA Cup,
It happens in the BPL,
It happens in the CONCACAF Gold Cup.
It happens in the USL at Swangard for Damn Whitecaps games,
why is it such a mystery if it happens to us in Amateur Senior Soccer (Whether it is BC Provincials or Knights League Summer Div 4 south)
The Mr. Dude, sir, pointed this out to me last year when I had a meltdown of nuclear proportions in a Summer League game:
It is probably more the way YOU handle the poor officiating that compounds the problem than if you just let him make a bad call and get on with it rather than screaming at him, putting him under immense pressure to get the next call(s) right, which of course he is going to bungle if he has to start thinking if he gets them right or not.
Dude is a man of wisdom. I tell you
*edit: It might have been Utah, knvb, Frank, or Ranger Forever, but I digress... they are all men of wisdom
alleyezonme
New Member
true.. but the board of referees in each league review each game that there is a discrepancy to make sure there is consistency, and those that do not call the games properly do not get to ref in the future until proven again at a lower level. this is not happening in BC even tho it is still amateur. there are quality referees in BC but few and far between.
.. it should also be expected so I am not agreeing with bashing the refs for even they may have an off day.
.. it should also be expected so I am not agreeing with bashing the refs for even they may have an off day.
All you Italian's look the same to me. And Ivan Lee.
More photo;s here http://www.takethepiss.com/multimedia/browseimages.php?c=504
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Wrecking Crew
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i will try to remain calm and share my two cents as i am still caught between shock and disbelief and the end of a season that had alot of promise, more disappointment, and zero trophies.
before the circus started at the 80th minute, i was happy with our performance and felt we had the better of the play, possession, and scoring chances. we defended well and gave up very little in terms of chances on our goal. it would have been nice if tk's header, cucca's right footed blast, or rizal's breakaway (before he was brought down by smac) would have ended up in the back of the net but it felt like our goal was coming!
someone earlier in this thread stated that this referee clearly let players know what was going to be called and what wouldn't. if this is the case, he told both teams in the first half that we were going to be allowed to play (he blew his whistle maybe 5 times for the entire half). my biggest issue with how things went yesterday was the blatant change in standards from 1st to 2nd half. if the wee bald lad (rob i think) can get away with kicking the ball at our fouled player after the whistle and then studding nate in the stomach without a yellow, i find it hard to believe rizal being sent off for a 10 yard encroachment and a questionable handball offence 30 yards from goal is justified. an experienced referee who understood the game would first off count out 10 yards at rizal's request or at least not compound his impact on the game with the second yellow. if he called the hand ball, told rizal he was walking a fine line and last warning, and awarded a free kick, surrey would have no problem with it. instead, he shows his lack of awareness and has the red card out before he can even process what he is doing.
at this point, our team responds well and continues to carry play with 10 men. tynan pushes forward, creates half a yard for himself and rips home the opener. maybe 12 to play and we can defend well to the end. IMO, cam wilson then toes a ball past tony gaita which would have gone for a goalkick or, at worst, into thomas' hands. ball plays hand. i've seen it not called several times this year but the referee feels a need to impact the result. first soft pk. 1-1
instead of folding the tent, we continue to battle, stevie k picks up his second yellow for a hard challenge on clarkey (his first was for bollocking the ref on the 1st peno call)and we go down to 9. still no problem because tk, who was a monster all year, rides out a challenge and finds tynan wide open and he slots the go ahead marker 9 v 11. could not be more proud of the lads at this point but the referee has more in store. after hearing (and personally screaming) several F-bombs throughout the match, the referee decides it is now no longer acceptable (in the 85th minute) and throws out scotty 5 minutes after he entered the match. down to 8 men and trying to defend a well taken free kick and clarkey heads home the equalizer. we are now trying to figue out how to survive the final minute and re-group for overtime but the ref isn't done yet. yes the ball hit todd's hand but it was not intentional and did not stop the ball from going to a surrey player...he was alone and the ball skipped on him...just as easily not called with very little protest from surrey.
so now we have received 3 red cards and given up 2 soft penalties in the last 20 minutes and emotions are boiling. i actually consider yanking the boys off the pitch because nothing irks me more than seeing my players being cheated. luckily, cooler heads prevail and a tynan free kick that almost broke shep's sternum and a deblas rip off the post provide a glimmer of hope...but even if that goes in, 11 v 8 for 30 minutes of extra time would have been tough to survive. just to make sure he has affected next week's game as well, the ref sends off poli and pete just before the final whistle...i know he really had no choice but i feel for pete as he would help in a west van battle.
the most bizarre 15 minutes of soccer i have ever experienced and i still can't believe the tale of two halves from an officiating standpoint. all we ask for is consistancy and, instead, we got both ends of the spectrum in 1 game.
on behalf of our club, i would like to apologize to rueben, charlie cazzetto and any of the fans who may have been offended by our actions. i know you do not have a direct say in who shows up to ref and your time and effort are appreciated. i believe our frustration was justified but our actions were overboard on several occasions. if you can put yourselves in our shoes and imagine 8 months of hard work being thrown away by a referee who was over his head from the opening whistle, 3 weeks removed from a heart breaking shootout loss with it's own controversy, you can understand why eating or sleeping were not an option last night!!!
surrey lads - your comments post game, your phone calls today, and your overall class in what was an "unrewarding victory" was appreciated. a great group who we always enjoy competing against and enjoying a pint with afterwards. all the best against west van!
columbus boys - i said my piece in the changeroom but i was proud of your footballing effort and could understand most of the non-footballing actions based on circumstances. thanks for a great year!
we will be filing a match report (not a protest) with bc soccer to try to help prevent similar events in the future as nobody wants to have their season end like this!
all the best to the final 8 and i'll be pulling for a vmsl team to take the title.
co-ed and over 35's in the near future = guilt free soccer!
cheers,
wc
before the circus started at the 80th minute, i was happy with our performance and felt we had the better of the play, possession, and scoring chances. we defended well and gave up very little in terms of chances on our goal. it would have been nice if tk's header, cucca's right footed blast, or rizal's breakaway (before he was brought down by smac) would have ended up in the back of the net but it felt like our goal was coming!
someone earlier in this thread stated that this referee clearly let players know what was going to be called and what wouldn't. if this is the case, he told both teams in the first half that we were going to be allowed to play (he blew his whistle maybe 5 times for the entire half). my biggest issue with how things went yesterday was the blatant change in standards from 1st to 2nd half. if the wee bald lad (rob i think) can get away with kicking the ball at our fouled player after the whistle and then studding nate in the stomach without a yellow, i find it hard to believe rizal being sent off for a 10 yard encroachment and a questionable handball offence 30 yards from goal is justified. an experienced referee who understood the game would first off count out 10 yards at rizal's request or at least not compound his impact on the game with the second yellow. if he called the hand ball, told rizal he was walking a fine line and last warning, and awarded a free kick, surrey would have no problem with it. instead, he shows his lack of awareness and has the red card out before he can even process what he is doing.
at this point, our team responds well and continues to carry play with 10 men. tynan pushes forward, creates half a yard for himself and rips home the opener. maybe 12 to play and we can defend well to the end. IMO, cam wilson then toes a ball past tony gaita which would have gone for a goalkick or, at worst, into thomas' hands. ball plays hand. i've seen it not called several times this year but the referee feels a need to impact the result. first soft pk. 1-1
instead of folding the tent, we continue to battle, stevie k picks up his second yellow for a hard challenge on clarkey (his first was for bollocking the ref on the 1st peno call)and we go down to 9. still no problem because tk, who was a monster all year, rides out a challenge and finds tynan wide open and he slots the go ahead marker 9 v 11. could not be more proud of the lads at this point but the referee has more in store. after hearing (and personally screaming) several F-bombs throughout the match, the referee decides it is now no longer acceptable (in the 85th minute) and throws out scotty 5 minutes after he entered the match. down to 8 men and trying to defend a well taken free kick and clarkey heads home the equalizer. we are now trying to figue out how to survive the final minute and re-group for overtime but the ref isn't done yet. yes the ball hit todd's hand but it was not intentional and did not stop the ball from going to a surrey player...he was alone and the ball skipped on him...just as easily not called with very little protest from surrey.
so now we have received 3 red cards and given up 2 soft penalties in the last 20 minutes and emotions are boiling. i actually consider yanking the boys off the pitch because nothing irks me more than seeing my players being cheated. luckily, cooler heads prevail and a tynan free kick that almost broke shep's sternum and a deblas rip off the post provide a glimmer of hope...but even if that goes in, 11 v 8 for 30 minutes of extra time would have been tough to survive. just to make sure he has affected next week's game as well, the ref sends off poli and pete just before the final whistle...i know he really had no choice but i feel for pete as he would help in a west van battle.
the most bizarre 15 minutes of soccer i have ever experienced and i still can't believe the tale of two halves from an officiating standpoint. all we ask for is consistancy and, instead, we got both ends of the spectrum in 1 game.
on behalf of our club, i would like to apologize to rueben, charlie cazzetto and any of the fans who may have been offended by our actions. i know you do not have a direct say in who shows up to ref and your time and effort are appreciated. i believe our frustration was justified but our actions were overboard on several occasions. if you can put yourselves in our shoes and imagine 8 months of hard work being thrown away by a referee who was over his head from the opening whistle, 3 weeks removed from a heart breaking shootout loss with it's own controversy, you can understand why eating or sleeping were not an option last night!!!
surrey lads - your comments post game, your phone calls today, and your overall class in what was an "unrewarding victory" was appreciated. a great group who we always enjoy competing against and enjoying a pint with afterwards. all the best against west van!
columbus boys - i said my piece in the changeroom but i was proud of your footballing effort and could understand most of the non-footballing actions based on circumstances. thanks for a great year!
we will be filing a match report (not a protest) with bc soccer to try to help prevent similar events in the future as nobody wants to have their season end like this!
all the best to the final 8 and i'll be pulling for a vmsl team to take the title.
co-ed and over 35's in the near future = guilt free soccer!
cheers,
wc
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