Joe Thornton

[johnnybluenose]

A friend and I were discussing the NHL Playoffs the other day and got onto the topic of Joe Thornton.

Did you realize, aside from the NHL, that he never won titles as a Junior in the OHL? He has only won a WJC Gold Medal and was a part of the World Cup of Hockey team that LeCavalier dominated, he also won a spengler Cup as a part of HC Davos during the lockout.

He was not a part of the Salt Lake City Gold medal team,

and was a key player on the Turin team that totally flopped to not even make the Bronze medal game...

If I'm an NHL GM I don't want him on my roster, not if I have any goals of winning the Cup.
If I'm Steve Yzerman I'm taking Lecavalier, Getzlaff, Mike Richards, Sydney Crosby, and maybe even Jon Toews or Marc Savard ahead of him for 2010 also.

Career Underachiever when it comes to crunch time.

Your Thoughts?

(I realize there is more to the Downfall of SJ than just him...but his record kind of bares out that he may be a part of the issues too, that even with this mammoth player in the OHL your team can't win a thing!?)

 

[Dude]

Had a similar discussion w/ my colleague her in the office.

The flip side of that is this: Steve Yserman was also considered a career underachiever as far as championships until he won.

 

[The Franchise]

This is so B-Mac and Rintool

Thornton would be on my team...just not my first pick to build a team around.

That question is easy.... Loungo hands down

 

[swampdonkey]

Luongo hasn't won much either....

 

[The Franchise]

What about

Turco

Modano

Sedins

 

[The Franchise]

Luongo hasn't won much either....

He's been in the playoffs twice

 

[johnnybluenose]

Thornton was supposed to be a huge contributor at '97 WJC's he didn't finish in top 10 for scoring, didn't make the all star team. Danny Brier, Christian Dube, and Chris Phillips stole the show for Canada at that tourney, winning the Gold

Thornton played on the HC Davos team that won the Spengler cup. Rick Nash was possesed in the tourney, and a young Jonas Hiller stole the Gold Medal from Canada.

Thornton wasn't on the map as far as scoring in the World Cup gold Canada won. Lecavalier was the Dominant centre for Canada winning the scoring title and the MVP. Thornton didn't finish in the top 10 for scoring for the tourney.

Thornton had 1 goal and 2 assists during the Turin Olympics.

Interestingly enough...If you look at his point production it is as follows:
Regular Season (Career)
842 points in 836 games... 1.01 PPG Average
Playoffs (Career)
50 points in 74 games... .68 PPG average

conversely Jarome Iginla has:
Reg Season: 851 points in 942 games... .91 ppg average
Playoffs: 50 in 52 games... .97 ppg average

 

[johnnybluenose]

This is so B-Mac and Rintool

Thornton would be on my team...just not my first pick to build a team around.

So who would you drop from your Team at 2010 if you are Yzerman in lieu of Thornton?

Heatley - Lecavalier - Iginla
Nash - Getzlaff - Gagne
Doan - Crosby - Carter
Morrow - Richards - St Louis
Spares: Savard, Toews, Perry, Cammalerri, Spezza, etc.

 

[Sir M]

Sir M.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

What about

Turco

Modano

Sedins

Modano has a couple cups and the World Cup win in the late 90s.

Funny...I was watching the game last night and saw Thornton with the nice assist to Getzlaf. Good thing I have Perry in my pool since he got the nice deflection. I was thinking: Thornton should not be on the Team Canada roster next year. He's never performed big when it mattered. Though...I'm not sure Lecavalier or Spezza would be shoe-ins either based on their performances of late.

Iginla, Savard, Nash, Toews, Heatley, Richards, Staal, Crosby, Parise, Carter, Getzlaf

On the bubble: St. Louis, Lecavalier, Marleau, Briere, Thornton, Spezza, Gagne, Boyes, Sakic

Dark Horses Sharp, Burrows, Ribeiro, Lucic

Also, some of these centres migh have to play on the wing.

It's the defence that worries me the most since we're getting a little old.

 

[johnnybluenose]

What about

Turco

Modano

Sedins

Modano also has a Stanley Cup ring.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Modano has a couple cups and the World Cup win in the late 90s.

Funny...I was watching the game last night and saw Thornton with the nice assist to Getzlaf. Good thing I have Perry in my pool since he got the nice deflection. I was thinking: Thornton should not be on the Team Canada roster next year. He's never performed big when it mattered. Though...I'm not sure Lecavalier or Spezza would be shoe-ins either based on their performances of late.

Iginla, Savard, Nash, Toews, Heatley, Richards, Staal, Crosby, Parise, Carter, Getzlaf

On the bubble: St. Louis, Lecavalier, Marleau, Briere, Thornton, Spezza, Gagne, Boyes, Sakic

Dark Horses Sharp, Burrows, Ribeiro, Lucic

Also, some of these centres migh have to play on the wing.

It's the defence that worries me the most since we're getting a little old.

Lecavalier is our Number 1 centre full stop. Nobody else compares, not even Crosby.
These teams are often put together as pieces, and not the BEST players...which is why I have a hard time thinking Savard will make the team.

You want 3 pure scoring lines:

Nash---Lecavalier--St Louis
Heatley--Getzlaf--Iginla
Doan - Crosby - Gagne


Then a line that can shut down and score too
Morrow-Richards-Carter

Staal is a good shout, probably makes the team as an extra player or instead of maybe St Louis or Doan...

Toews is young, and should go, but not go and be heavily relied on.

Parise is a yank.

Defense is not old... After Niedermayer and Pronger you have to choose between:

Campbell, Boyle, Burns, Webber, Regehr, Phaneuff, Seabrook, Barker, Keith, Boumeester, Coburn, Green

Only one there over 30 to the best of my knowledge is Boyle...maybe Campbell.

 

[Bronco]

It's the defence that worries me the most since we're getting a little old.

Surely you jest.

MIke Green
Shea Webber
Drew Doughty
Dion Phaneuf
Jay Bouwmeester
Robin Regehr
Luke Schenn

Dinosaurs if needed:


Rob Blake
Scott Neidermayer

 

[joely_the_goalie]

Modano has a couple cups and the World Cup win in the late 90s.

Funny...I was watching the game last night and saw Thornton with the nice assist to Getzlaf. Good thing I have Perry in my pool since he got the nice deflection. I was thinking: Thornton should not be on the Team Canada roster next year. He's never performed big when it mattered. Though...I'm not sure Lecavalier or Spezza would be shoe-ins either based on their performances of late.

Iginla, Savard, Nash, Toews, Heatley, Richards, Staal, Crosby, Parise, Carter, Getzlaf

On the bubble: St. Louis, Lecavalier, Marleau, Briere, Thornton, Spezza, Gagne, Boyes, Sakic

Dark Horses Sharp, Burrows, Ribeiro, Lucic

Also, some of these centres migh have to play on the wing.

It's the defence that worries me the most since we're getting a little old.

i believe parise is an american...

also, in regards to the dmen, i think we'll have a good mix of old and young, but should lean towards the young

the pool of dmen to pull from are:

boyle
campbell
pronger
neidermayer
keith
green
phaneuf
burns
bouwmeester
weber
regher
doughty (still too young, but name has to be in discussion)

 

[johnnybluenose]

I'm going (If I was Yzerman)
Boyle, Pronger, Regehr, Boumeester, Green, Weber, Niedermayer, & Burns.

 

[termatofylakas]

Why Regehr? That guy is slow and there are others just as good defensively. Burns just had his shoulder fixed so you have to wait and see how he responds. I know it took Lecavalier a while to get going this year.

You are right about Thornton that when it comes to the big games he doesn't care. He's the type of player that is just there for the money. I watched yesterday and he just coasted similar to years past. Won't go to the front of the net at all. Then again Patrick Marleau is shitting the bed as well. That whole team/organization has a losers mentality...time to blow it up and start new.

And if I'm Yzerman the top 3 centers for me are Vinny, Getzlaf and Staal. Crosby can play on the wing.

Heatly-Vinny-Iginla
Nash-Getzlaf-Crosby
Carter-Staal-St. Louis
Doan-Richards-Morrow/Toews

 

[termatofylakas]

Also if Regehr gets all this consideration as a shut down guy and blah blah blah how come Willie Mitchell who for me is better defensively doesn't get a look?

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Also if Regehr gets all this consideration as a shut down guy and blah blah blah how come Willie Mitchell who for me is better defensively doesn't get a look?

It's the shut-down guys I am worried about the most. No shortage of offence on the back end, but they can't all be playing the power play. Mitchell just might be a darkhorse to make it come to think of it.

Savard is top 10 in scoring. Hopefully they learn from last Olympics and go with the guys who are playing the best at that time and not go with players who are still being remembered for what they did 5 or 10 years ago.

Damn...that Parise is a beauty. How do the Devlis always get the best Americans?

 

[johnnybluenose]

Parise, Zajac, rafalski (Once a dev), Gionta, Gomez (once a dev)...

Lamourello knows his Yanks.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Parise, Zajac, rafalski (Once a dev), Gionta, Gomez (once a dev)...

Lamourello knows his Yanks.

Langenbrunner, Guerin, and Rolston also come to mind.

Trivia question...they also drafted a Yank who was later traded to the Canucks.