How will HPL affect Gold/Silver levels

[bettermirror]

good questions, Island Soccer.

I saw the web page re: the Tier2 discussion on the Island. Some nice ideas. W

-Fewer teams? Always depends on who tries-out!
-Boundary? I suspect that will remain at the lower levels...
-You'll still see Mission in Tier 2 and down despite being linked with PAFC should PAFC get HPL, I have no doubt
-Yes, Tier 2 is playing for B Cup, with HPL A Cup only. But I guess some teams from T2 might be able to enter a playoff to enter the A Cup? It's been mentioned by HPL/BCSA.

Outwest: I don't think anyone will have to force HPL2 on the anyone. I suspect a number of clubs will pop-up over the next 2-4 years ready and willing to create an HPL2. 3 teams will get "cut" from HPL right off the bat, and more will develop themselves to that standard and want to join....I assume!

Metro and gold teams will join of course. Some gold will go down to silver. And some metro/gold teams will combine or disappear altogether.

I don't think you'll see much change in the current fall-winter programs being run by District 4 and 5. Maybe it is they will combine at the Gold level while leaving Silver and Bronze more localized? Depends on the number of teams. Can't right now because already D4 and D5 have loads of teams at each age group at each level....but if gold team numbers shrink you could see teams from Chilliwack to West Van in one gold/metro league....???

The change they would need to make in that case is eliminate the conference cup and make that an FA Cup style tournament.....potentially leading to a chance at playing the bottom position HPL teams for A Cup participation???

Anyone else have a thought?

 

[Baldy]

A few of questions:

1. The first year of HPL will only run from September 2011 to November 2011. Right?

2. From what I've read, there will be no U17 HPL league (at least in the first year), but rather U17 and U18 will form one league (i.e., U18). Is this true?

3. For the 2012 season (March - November) to be on the U18 team, you need to be U16 this year?

4. So, a girl who is playing U17 this year that wanted to play HPL would play a three month season at U18 (September 2011 to November 2011) and then be done with youth soccer?

5. If this is true, why would a girl who is playing U17 this year want to play U18 HPL next year?

If you haven't guessed, I coach a U17 Gold girls team.

 

[bettermirror]

Email a franchise and ask! I am not sure why a u17 player this would not be able to play u18 HPL next year? What you have to ask yourself Baldy is will the girls be better served playing Gold or HPL - that will differ from player to player. Your job, and mine too as a Gold coach, is to forward the info to the players and let them make their own decision.

 

[Baldy]

Sure they "can" play HPL next year, but then their season is over at the end of November. If they stay Gold (or HPL Tier 2 or Metro - whatever the next level is called) then they still play right through March.

Why would they opt for a season that is 4 months shorter?

None of my girls are good enough to play HPL (we're Gold 2). I am trying to figure out what the trickle down effect will be (this thread is about how HPL will affect Gold and Silver). I need to apply to be a coach next year and I need to figure out what is the right level for my daughter to be playing at (she'll end up playing at whatever level I'm coaching at).

 

[bettermirror]

Oh I gotcha. Ya I hear ya re: the shortened season. The girls could transfer from the HPL to their local gold team at the conclusion of their HPL eligibility in November. The transfer deadline is January, and of course transfer papers wouldn't likely be needed anyway as their HPL commitment would be complete in November.

I wouldn't say a Gold 2 player isn't good enough. The district 5 rep told me "gold 1 and 2 are separated by geography". So was she lying? I don't think so - she's a good lady. But what inevitably happens is a club with multiple gold teams will automatically ask for their best team to be placed in Gold 1 thus tipping the balance themselves. Plenty of examples of Gold 2 teams being better than Gold 1 teams.

I've also seen loads of Gold 1 and 2 players reach the final provincial team selections and make the team etc etc. yes, there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[krutov]

Oh I gotcha. Ya I hear ya re: the shortened season. The girls could transfer from the HPL to their local gold team at the conclusion of their HPL eligibility in November. The transfer deadline is January, and of course transfer papers wouldn't likely be needed anyway as their HPL commitment would be complete in November.

Do you really think that is a solution? All Gold team's should pick their squads in the spring, play 40% of their season and then have any number of "HPL elite" players come in and take their roster spots. Good luck with that.

How do they deal with U18's back East?

 

[bettermirror]

It's not a perfect world, no, Krutov. But really, these girls will have played together for a long time. So their friend goes and plays HPL for a few months and then returns to the team her friends are on. They won't begrudge her. They'd welcome her/them with open arms. Take 14 players after tryouts and then add your old players back - it's unlikely any gold team is going to lose more than a couple players to HPL anyway.

Good question about "back East"!

 

[What' all this then?]

Bettermirror you should do some research on the differences between coaching girls and boys. Girls play to be with their friends.
For the u18.. the question was asked the answer was too bad for them. Someone will get screwed no matter when the HPL starts.

On another note, why should the leagues allow the HPL players back? That would mean having spots held for a number of players so the gold team can have a few wringers later in the season. Who does this develop? Will they also pay double the BC soccer fees? (different seasons). As it stands now people are making the assumption that the GMSL/selects will be tier 2. This is not necessarily the case. Gold may be tier 2.

 

[bettermirror]

"Leagues" don't leave spots for HPL players. Teams would have to have spots available and then agree to "allow them back" or just to join. The league could not stop a gold team adding an HPL player in November if that player/team so chose. Since the HPL commitment would be complete it would not be a transfer but rather they'd be a "free agent." If a gold team has, say 15 players, and an HPL player contacts them and says "I'd like to play cuz my season is over and I am not playing HPL next year" I doubt many would say "no thanks." And if one says that another one would accept them openly.

It is my understanding Selects/Metro will join with Gold to create tier 2. Well, more accurately some gold will drop to silver and some gold will "go up" to join the select/metro teams. No one really knows what tier 2 will look like right now.

 

[Mr Base]

What's all this. BC never take the same guys as SYL. How long have you been around. BC has it's own group. Normaly kids that work in development centres with Michael Findley or hwo ever is doing it now get to be part of Provincial program. Do you think that those coaches would thake a risk on a player they do not know. Many kids never go to Provincial tryouts yet they play in SYL. It is very important to unerstand most likley kids from residency will be called out before HPL. Again nothing to do with payers ability. Likley more about conections. As you know you could have three teams in each age group from BC with out any trouble. Only one goes to Nationals. Kids that do go have way better chance to be called out to U17 National program or U20. Just the way it is.

 

[What' all this then?]

I say when the HPL season is over the HPL players come back to tier two teams but they are ineligible for cup play. Makes it fair for all.
For tier two, why bother with another level of administration and more volunteers and just make it gold?

 

[bettermirror]

Well I would suggest the only HPL players who will transfer to Gold/Metro are the u18's if they so desired or players quitting/cut-from HPL and won't be playing the next year. Afterall the HPL official break is only Dec/Jan other than the league-required in-season breaks.

 

[krutov]

The last few posts have made me think that there should be a rule in place of some sort regarding how many players can transfer in one season. IF the HPL is not all it is cracked up to be and there are some players that decide in November they are done with it and will not be playing the following year what do they do until September. If for instance Franchise A U13 boys has a poor season and ten of the families decide that this is a big waste of money. If all the players are from one area I can see some of them latching onto a Gold team(not all) some silver(not all) and they cannot cross district. I can see this happening each year with the different playing season's.

In my opinion this is unfare to the existing team and players to have kids come in and cut into their playing time. However this is also unfare to the kids that just want to play and they took a stab at HPL but it did not work out.

Having different playing seasons is going to be nothing but trouble.

 

[bettermirror]

Well with HPL ending in November there is nothing stopping a kid from joining any gold, silver, or metro team (bronze even) as they see fit. Within the district boundaries or outside of the district boundaries (unless the team they want to join is over the OOD limit). The roster cut-off is in January at some point for transfers in Select/Rep. Conceivably when HPL is done the kids' commitment is done too making them free agents no different than when a Select/Rep teams' season ends in April or May or whatever and doesn't start again until September (with registration in July). They could transfer to any Gold or Metro team they wanted if accepted, enough space, and not exceeding the OOD if that's the case. Thus allowing them to play straight through without a break.

BUT, what would be stopped, I have no doubt, and quite rightly, is a kid couldn't sign for HPL, sign for a gold team in November, and then switch back to an HPL team in February the next year. That will have to be watched! They have designed breaks for a reason.

 

[Mr Base]

Kids need rest guys. If they play four years summer and winter half of them will end up hurt. Remember kids are growing. It becomes way of life. Some kids might just get turnrd off of the sport.
We all wish for the best players. I think it is more important to develop lower level kids . Kids in HPL levels should work on upper body development and over all fitness like cross country running in off season. They need to develop lungs. Going down to gold level will drag their development. They must maintain high level.
These kids are one call away from big dollars. Parents must be smart. I would never risk an injury in a lower level.

 

[bettermirror]

Base. That's what I said. They can't play summer and winter. We were just saying "what if a kid is cut from or quits HPL what are their options re: gold or metro?" The options are they can transfer to a team or not. But no, they can't just be constantly bouncing between the two leagues without any breaks. That goes without saying and I can't see any district or HPL team allowing it.

The smartest thing you have said: "Parents must be smart. I would never risk an injury in a lower level." I've been having that discussion with some American parents about their kids playing HS soccer and I ask "why put them in HS soccer if they have a chance or have signed a university scholarship?" And yes, socialization is massive, I get that.

 

[Mr Base]

Now that we know that U13 is a start for HPL. It's clear that both U14 sides in Burnaby Selects will lose about 8 guys each.One as U14 an onother as U15 next year. This will swing a new movment to select program from gold sides. Net resalt better development for all the boys. This will also force SBMC and Wesburn to pool as one to have a gold side in the midle of the pack. As we can see both Cliff and Wesburn and SBMC second gold are on the bottom. SBMC first side stands to loose more thamn hand full of kids to Selects in U15next year.
Same will happen with north Shore gold and select. Kids will move up along the table.Any of you guys hopping that your children will have a chance for HPL should or must play SYL for the better of higher level of soccer.
HPL is going to be huge jomp for kids in soccer skill game pace and over all movment. Almost equal to Provincial program. Fun to see it all come forward. Wesburn has an U13 lad in a S1 that should be contacted for Selects and gold or even higher. Pace like you never have seen before good shot. Franco is the lads name.

 

[Mal]

Clubs with HPL franchises will attract players from other clubs who wish to play HPL . If these players don,t make the cut for HPL they may still stay at the HPL franchise club at Gold level in the hope of making it next time. These HPL clubs would have loaded Gold teams as well.
Experienced Coach,s who currently volunteer could also switch to HPL clubs as they have the chance to become paid coach,s.

Poaching of players and coach,s will need to be watched.

 

[bettermirror]

Can HPL clubs actually POACH players from lower tier teams though?? HPL is not governed by district 4 or 5 and the HPL clubs will not compete with lower tier teams in any competition. Coaches can't be poached. Any coach can be approached at any time with an invitation by one club or another whether you be the same tier or not.

 

[Mr Base]

Yes why not. This is the highest level of youth soccer in Canada. Only pro club sides go to play other US sides. Soccer in that level will not be any better. How the heck will kids get a chance. Four district and five district onley govern their own program. HPL is a tie between upper level and youth.
One only can wate ans see. It is comming to be same as over seas. Good players will be exposed. Coaches like it or not.