BCTF Strike 2012

[freddy]

We also know that Ralph Klein blew that province up in the 90's and cut even to the bone to reset the gross bloat that happened there.

I moved to Calgary just as Klein took office. He did blow things up, so to speak in education, medical and liquor (off the top of my head). But, they key thing he did in education was to collapse something like 50-60 small (and inefficient) school boards into 4 regional ones. I am ALWAYS in favor of less administration - especially when it comes to government.

I also could buy a cold 6 pack of Granville Island Lager for $6.75 at the Great Canadian Liquor store, on a Sunday with a credit card in 1992.

Although he was crass and a drunk, he did receive some good advice from someone.

 

[Dude]

This topic winds me up to no end, and it’s one of the main reasons I have not started a thread myself.

I know a lot of good guys and gals that happen to be good people, and I can only assume very good teachers. I don’t think it’s fair to tar them all with the brush I’d use to paint their union.

I do know this: most of the teachers I know got into the profession for the many reasons you stated, JBN. I’d also offer the opinion that, had they wanted to earn a bigger salary, they would have planned for that accordingly when deciding what to do when they left high-school.

So, no- I don’t think it is all about the money for most teachers, but I do think they are being very poorly represented by their union, who are making that the #1 issue in the public eye.

I’d also venture to guess that being a teacher- if you don’t want to make bags full of money- is a pretty good gig. You get a hell of a lot of freedom in your days and summers. Seriously…getting to work at 8:30 and being out of there at 3:30 is almost part time these days. You get more job security than I would say is reasonable (wouldn’t it be great to be able to fire shitty teachers?). You have the opportunity to improve your education during the summers and after school if you want to get yourself into the higher pay range. You have free time to take on extra-curricular activities after school…maybe coaching, or maybe just something for yourself.

I agree that the environment for improved education needs to change- but that is a capital expenditure issue, not necessarily a salary issue. But, it’s a key issue.

I’m just so bloody disappointed in the path the BCTF has led the teachers down. Seriously, how dare they use parents and kids as pawns? Try getting some feedback on your children’s progress this year? We have, it’s an effing joke. But you know, the teachers had time to chaperone the school ski club for two trips to Whistler this year, but not fill in a bloody report card. Or participate in parent / teacher conferences. The level of hypocracy is outstanding.

I honestly hope the majority of parents feel the same way and get vocal. I’d LOVE a general day of protest, in some way, shape or form…but it’s not realistic. Why? Well, I don’t think I’ll be able to give my employees the day off to participate, unless they want to take vacation. We’re too busy with WORK, FFS.

Anyhow, I’ve just fallen off the slope here. Fcuk the BCTF. Teachers: think for yourselves: decertify.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Think of the waseted money in civic govt's here in Metro Vancouver. Think of the many municipaities that have redundancies. North Van, West Van, District of North Van. Langley City, Township of Langley. White Rock- Surrey. etc etc etc.

Why not go to ONE city. One School Board, One set of taxes, one set of councellors, one mayor. etc etc etc.

Getting rid of, what? Hundreds? of city counsellors would give translink all the cash they need for the Evergreen line.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Nothing better than being bullied worse by a union than the government...........

Anyone looking for a 43 year-old for a full-time job? I'm currently grossing 75,000 so if you could match that, that would be great.....(netting just over $40). PM if anyone has anything else so I can get away from the politics of this profession. I love teaching and coaching kids. That's where it ends at this point in my life.

 

[bananaman]

We are not allowed to "picket". It is being called a "strike-line". We are not stopping people entering the buildings. As for most of the issues out there, many teachers would prefer the classroom issues solved before pay increases. Yes, we would like a raise. Who wouldn't go to their bosses at the end of their contract and ask for a raise to reflect the inflation rates and cost of living? Teachers are fighting for the rights that the government are remving from the table even though the supreme court has deemed it unconstitutional. The comparison between BC and other provinces comes from BC starting full time salary is $45k where as Alberta is $59k. The government is also saving $33m for the three days we are not in the classroom. This is the total amount they are "giving" us in the first year for their new Education Plan ($12m on ads on tv?). Paying teachers based on student results is ridiculous. What would stop teachers giving every kid an A? Every student is different and needs different things including assessment, activities, and materials. What happens when one teacher has 5 kids in their class with learning needs and IEP's and another gets 2? Different grades for different kids. As for union dues, I paid about $700 last year. Also, the question of having admin control hiring within their school. Where that could work in some cases, what would stop them only hiring family friends or people they like... not who is better for the position. There are tonnes of issues here and it is hard to say "we" all have the same view. We agree (87%) that we will work together and support the BCTF but each teacher has their own issue they would like to see solved. Personally, pay raise is not near the top. The govt stripping our rights to bargin, having a say in our own development, and classroom sizes is the biggest issue here. The students are affected here strike or no strike. Three days off or we continue with little to no support/resources or we put money into education and help support our future generation! Teachers want what is best for the students not our wallets. We knew we would never be millionaires in this profession. We do it because we love it!

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Oh, and for the person who was on about the sick days......sadly there are people who abuse things in a variety of jobs..not just teaching. FYI, I believe I have 188 sick days saved. Am I going to use them all? No chance. At the end of it all, what do I get? Nothing. Just a bunch of sick days that will disappear and never to be used. There is no payout plan in our district AND I'm not going to use them just for the sake of using them......especially if someone on TTP is going to be offering me a job soon. See above.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Bananaman, $700? How come I'm paying close to $1800 to the BCTF? WTF?

 

[bananaman]

Capt Shamrock... I have only a 0.4FTE.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Cheers, BM. I thought I was getting bent worse than I actually am. Good luck with everything, BM. Hope it all works out.

 

[bananaman]

Cheers, BM. I thought I was getting bent worse than I actually am. Good luck with everything, BM. Hope it all works out.

Cheers. One down two to go!

 

[dutch13]

Coming out of university I have more friends becoming teachers than any other profession I can think of. What happened to the supply and demand argument? Clearly there is not a lack of people becoming teachers despite their complaints in regards to salary.

I had many fantastic teachers that went above and beyond their job, but I also had several that we're disappointing at best. The problem I find is that there is no measurement. Obviously straight performance based pay is not the way to go, but the fact that there is little accountability in regards to results. What if the teachers were given a significant pay increase? Would we see an increase in the # of students going on to Post Secondary? An increase in the graduation rate? Are our current students really falling behind in comparison to the rest of the country to the extent our economy will be hurt in the future?

I struggle because education isn't something you can really put numbers into and estimate or even measure the impact, like say spending 500 million on a roof for a new stadium. ig:

I can't see anyone arguing the non monetary side of things. Classroom composition specifically.

 

[Regs]

Does the general public really understand what 'net-zero' policy means?

The teachers can have a raise, no problem. But it would mean giving something else up that would save in other areas... like less sick days or bereavement for their cats dying I've heard some very interesting things from someone who has been at the bargaining table over the couple of months - the leadership of the BCTF are the ones that need to be bent over and given the strap...

 

[freddy]

Cheers, BM. I thought I was getting bent worse than I actually am. Good luck with everything, BM. Hope it all works out.

A BM usually does work out . . . in the end.

 

[bulljive]

Tough topic, my dad was a teacher for 35 years and has very strong views on the topic. In terms of money do I really think the teachers deserve more, hard to justify, let's be honest we all want more. 9.5 months of work, you make a pretty descent wage and as many have said most teachers don't go in to get rich. If you want more money spend your summers working or getting more education, I know many that do.

In terms of performance Dutchy I think anything to do with that is a tough road to go down. Increase in graduation rate etc. can be inflated, what stops a teacher from just passing a student. How about tax payers stop contributing to private schools? If public school isn't good enough for you, you can pay for it, teachers and all. That should free up some money to have more teachers, more classrooms, smaller class sizes and more special needs help.

 

[girth]

Teechers tot me to right and thats y eye feal thay shoold gett moore munny.

 

[sid]

Rosie11 has always been a great teacher & a speedy shifty fullback at best!now he is a STrIKER
Fuk me


Sid

 

[mtkb]

Cutting off taxpayer money to private schools is a complete non-starter. I get the rationale behind the reduced amount, but I dont have to like it. My parents pay taxes like everyone else in this province; I dont really see why they should have been penalized for not going with the flow. In my case because I went to a Catholic school it even becomes an issue of having to pay to fully experience freedom of religion, but the point remains for any private school. A partial reduction is tolerable, but a complete bar on tax dollars would be offside imo...

 

[mtkb]

as to the general issue here, if the main ask are better conditions for learning, them I fully support the teachers. There's a ton of value added there for our society, and if we need to sink money into it so be it. Thats precisely what the lawyers who take public defender cases are asking for - not a pay raise (although we've had a net paycut of 10% over the last 15 years, not accounting for the cost of living, but I digress), but for value added things such as more coverage for more people that will save the justice system millions in the long run.

Where the teachers lose me, and I suspect many others, is when they demand 15% over 3 years. You wanna poke that dog, game on. I have no medical/dental, no pension, no job security whatsoever in that I eat what I kill, zero sick days, and zero days of paid vacation. You have 10-15 weeks of paid holidays a year, less whatever time you take in the summer to review/edit your annual lesson plans. You have health benefits, you have a pension, and you have to pretty much have an affair with a student to get canned.

You want more money? Go get a masters level degree. Until then? Fcuk RIGHT off...

 

[Kick'em]

I am merely an outsider looking in at the situation and would gladly consider information that would discredit my statements, but until then:

The BCTF has done a real disservice to their membership because of their focus on salary.
Teachers can, and do, make very good money after attributing the monetary value of their pension, benefits and mandatory time in class rooms. Financial complaints, particularly in times of economic turmoil, are unlikely to produce support form the general public. Public opinion is important as really the general public is the employer.

I find the argument that BC teachers are the 9th lowest paid in the country difficult to appreciate regardless of whether it is a starting wage or any other wage. The fact is that if a teacher wanted to make more money living and teaching in Red Deer Alberta they could. However, they do not live in Red Deer, they live in one of the nicest cities in the world and that has to be seen as compensation for the lesser pay. This is simply a supply and demand argument and is irrefutable. This argument receives further support from the overload of new teachers that are unable to find jobs. If anything, this last fact indicates that teacher are overpaid.

There are indisputably teachers that are worth more then they receive but I would suggest that their complaint, if there is a complaint beyond what BCTF has manufactured, about wages would be better addressed if the other classroom problems, such as class size, resource budget, administrative support and identified student support, were resolved. By reconciling the grievances, as listed above, workload would decrease and other problems would be resolved (i.e., new teachers job placements, smaller classes = better student performance, less teacher burnout, ect.). This would also maximize the BCTF public support as anyone that has hosted a birthday party with 30 kids would confirm it is impossible to maintain a productive... anything. BCTF need to give the credit to the general public that they understand that the number of general children, number of children only capable of functioning 1v1 and ability to access resource, contribute to the quality of education received. I further this by stating that the public comprehends and appreciates the benefits of quality education.

The gov't has done a respectable job of allowing the BCTF to shoot themselves and has taken away the only real bargaining chip by declaring teaching an essential service. I say that it is the only bargaining chip because, IMHO, teachers are simply incapable of a work to rule style strike; because, as a profession, they value the intrinsic rewards from going above and beyond the standard to support students. This should be commended.

My sincere hope is that the BCTF executive with their "highly political" stance, realize that this is an ineffective approach and start putting pressure on the gov't to make changes to improve the education system. I think teachers have merit and support if their representative would only approach it more strategically.

On an off topic finish I ask why is it that professions work so hard to protect their own? Would it not be better to cast out: ineffective-pedophiliac teachers; doctors plagued with malpractice; and Lawyer... all of them?

Kick'em

 

[Regs]

One of the best first-posts ever on TTP, nicely done Kick'em!

:thumbs-up: