BCSPL - Metro League for U-13 player?

[Mr Base]

All the coaches on boys side do not care where the kids play. BC Soccer is very well balanced by Michel and Rob and few other people.
They spend lots of time watching kids play. They know witch kids can hold their own at that level. Michael is one of the very straight guys. There is no way that HPL group or select group is going to push low level player to them.
As far as gold they might have two kids per team at that level. Silver one team will have one kid at that level.
It will take time to get it all sorted out but I am sure they will get the best players out.
What bothers me that guys at National level do not give a kid a tryout if he or she wishes. It is a closed door controlled by the small group that has nothing to do with BC soccer.

 

[Mr Base]

If they ask they will get an invite. If not coaches might have a totally new group. You as a parent must ask in email format to BC Soccer head coach at that age group.

 

[ThiKu]

Thiku, some good points.....but of the current HPL players how many are going to be playing professionally? I do know it is VERY possible to play at the college/university level even if you're not playing at the 'highest' level. The Whitecaps Elite girls for example......are all pretty well guaranteed to get something good in University. As for the rest a lot depends on how they 'market' themselves. The BCPSL will NOT guarantee them post-secondary playing....that is a MASSIVE flaw throughout the system saying that is the only way to get to the University/College level. Just be honest about things. Don't try to brainwash kids/parents into believing that. There will be a lot of disappointed parents this way......just a thought.

I don't disagree with you. I'll just ask you read my post again. I never said it was the ONLY way to pro/university. I said it's the league where players with those goals should go. Semantics, I know, but still it's what I said. There will always be exceptions to the rule (Joe DiChiara recently out of Ontario being a great example - never part of TFC or the Ontario prov teams, but was signed and played in the Russian Premier League at 19 and is now in....Lithuania I think? Nothing to be ashamed of),

But whatever anyone thinks about the league, the BCSPL is the highest profile league and the league where "the majority" of "the best" players go. As such, where those with sincere goals for high level such as university or pro, is where they need to go.

 

[ThiKu]

Base - go look at the recent BC PTP rosters. Each and every player is from BCSPL (on the boys side - I didn't look at the girls).

 

[Titen]

Base - go look at the recent BC PTP rosters. Each and every player is from BCSPL (on the boys side - I didn't look at the girls).

There are MSL Players on the 2013 Provincial Teams who had to bow and scrape to get a look, made the team and have been told since they need to move to BCSPL to remain on the teams by BCSA technical staff so don't kid yourself about MSL players getting their props. The rosters disguise this by listing them on teams they may have permitted to in an attempt to prop-up the league. BCSA has made it clear from the top down that if you ain't BCSPL, you ain't shite in the grand scheme of soccer things. It will be interesting to see what curve ball they come up with next to prevent MSL teams from challenging the Premier Cup next year, following the AGM vote. As it stands now, only the top 4 BCSPL teams make cup play so the whole system will have to be revamped for any challenge to happen.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

There are MSL Players on the 2013 Provincial Teams who had to bow and scrape to get a look, made the team and have been told since they need to move to BCSPL to remain on the teams by BCSA technical staff so don't kid yourself about MSL players getting their props. The rosters disguise this by listing them on teams they may have permitted to in an attempt to prop-up the league. BCSA has made it clear from the top down that if you ain't BCSPL, you ain't shite in the grand scheme of soccer things. It will be interesting to see what curve ball they come up with next to prevent MSL teams from challenging the Premier Cup next year, following the AGM vote. As it stands now, only the top 4 BCSPL teams make cup play so the whole system will have to be revamped for any challenge to happen.

Titen, that is absolutely disgraceful but as you mentioned there will be another curve ball bigger than Ron Guidry's was for the Yankees in the late 70s. They are essentially kicking themselves in the ghoulies and this will become more apparent with more of these 'lies' they decide to change at their convenience. After all, how much money can a Metro League coach make nowadays?

 

[Reccos]

I think Jurgen Klinsman has some good views on young player development in this article:

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1679...lieves-pickup-and-playground-soccer-is-key-to

Now the head coach of the U.S. national team, Klinsmann says the approach to soccer in Germany is a bit more similar to basketball in the United States --- a combination of pickup and playground play as well as organized teams --- than it is to the U.S. soccer culture, which for so long has revolved around structured training and having to pay to play for youth soccer clubs or organizations.


“I grew up just coming home from school and eating, doing homework, and then it was four or five hours just playing soccer,” Klinsmann said. “And it was all unorganized and it was all buddies in the street and in the neighborhood. Then you started to join your local club team and you’d train maybe once or twice a week and you had a game on the weekend, but that was more like a little supplement to all the soccer we were playing on our own.

“So you learned the game really just by playing it in the streets with your buddies. The older you got the more you kind of understood the relegation and promotion system even for youth teams. Then based on your talent you were placed in the right youth team and you would work your way through it and further up.”

Klinsmann also pointed to Germany’s low cost of joining local club teams, as well as sports separation from the school, as major reasons why that country’s system of development is superior to the USA’s.

“So, in Germany, youth soccer is very inexpensive and that way everybody can play. And my approach today is the more you play the better you get. The more inner drive you have in playing your games, the further you will make it in your career. That’s how I look at it.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Jurgen is a smart man.........Imagine that. Playing more games actually can make you better. Funny ol' gaime.

 

[Reccos]

Jurgen is a smart man.........Imagine that. Playing more games actually can make you better. Funny ol' gaime.

The academies and extra coaching are all good but kids needs to play in game situations too and they need to learn to play against the good and the ugly. Just training more and more is not going to make a player learn what it takes to help his or her team win games.

We do backgrounds checks here in HK and when it comes to coaches (most from UK) who are in the individual skill building business I toss in a question as to how does the guy's team do in league play even though the client hasn't got that on their list. It causes in many cases a lot of stammering and stuttering as the reality for some of them is is that they are not working to develop players in a team situation.

I don't say hockey is the model but if you look at the NHL you will find that everyone of those guys has been on good, mediocre and struggling teams at some point in their career and they learned from each situation.

It seems that the top coaches in a club these days just want the best players like a pro team - plug and play rather than develop players. I'm not sure that is the right model IF I understand what they are doing in youth soccer today and all this reorganization.

Man City's CEO Ferran Soriano was in Hong Kong this weekend and I was invited to his talk on business and soccer Friday night. Met the guy briefly. His talk was brilliant - mostly focused on Barcelona examples - good and bad as he has not been at Man City that long. He had some good models of good coaches for what kind of situation and plugged a few names. His view is similar to what you hear in senior teams in VMSL or FVSL. Get a strong core of your players who all know what "play your (team's) game" means. He thinks half.

He showed a few clips - IIRC one was on Takethepiss about Barcelona's youth team(?) not long ago. He showed 1 min of the senior team attacking from centre with the ball played across the back waiting for an opening then the attack was on right to the goal. Then he showed one minute in the same scenario with their youth team and the ball played the same way. These kids also learn to apply skills in games.

 

[Deleted member 8708]

My knee still hurts from that........bastard. Though I would hardly call the OVER 38s elite competition.

What school is your son at, RF? That would be great if you helped out the kids.

As for the other question, BCPSL doesn't mean you're the best players all the time. I think everyone knows several players on most teams who aren't even close to be good enough but fortunately for those kids $$$$$ is not an object at home. I saw two players this year in high school soccer who were in grade 11 who were better than most I've seen around here. Problem is they don't have the money to play so they play in a 'lower' league. It doesn't make them any worse. A good player is a good player. Just like deep pockets are deep pockets..........

 

[Deleted member 8708]

Fast forward to March, 2015. My son decided to join the BCSPL team after all. He played one year, in which he hardly improved as a player, due in part to favouritism by the coach, which saw my son sit on the bench much more than certain other players who were only marginally better. (So much for development.) My boy finished up with this team feeling somewhat dejected and having lost confidence in his ability. He has since joined a Metro team and 20 games later has barely seen the bench. His Metro coach has on several occasions told him what an asset he is to the team. The coaching support is more extensive and encouraging than at BCSPL. He now has three quality coaches as opposed to a BCSPL coach who for all intents and purposes was tasked with coaching alone. My son's playing has vastly improved over the past year and he has never enjoyed his soccer more.

 

[RL RCD]

You listed the most important reason why you (and your son) made a good decision to play MSL instead of BCSPL (more playing time which then leads to everything else: development, feeling better, etc). Beside that, you, as a parent, will save a lot of money ($300 or $400 playing MLS compared to $1,500 to $2,000 playing BCSPL).

There are a few players in every MSL team that could easily play BCSPL but their parents simply do not find worth it (spending all that money on BCSPL). That also means that every BCSPL team has a few players that are not good enough to play at that level (but they do because their parents are ready to pay that kind of money) which mean that BCSP quality is really watered down.

Unfortunately (in this Province) when it comes to soccer everything has become a big business. Clubs are hiring some "big" names, paying them a lot of money, fees are going up, administration (bureaucracy) is bigger and bigger every year, favouritism will be always there, etc.

Bottom line, choose a level for you kid in which he/she is comfortable and gets enough playing time and everything should be fine.

 

[Dude]

You listed the most important reason why you (and your son) made a good decision to play MSL instead of BCSPL (more playing time which then leads to everything else: development, feeling better, etc). Beside that, you, as a parent, will save a lot of money ($300 or $400 playing MLS compared to $1,500 to $2,000 playing BCSPL).

There are a few players in every MSL team that could easily play BCSPL but their parents simply do not find worth it (spending all that money on BCSPL). That also means that every BCSPL team has a few players that are not good enough to play at that level (but they do because their parents are ready to pay that kind of money) which mean that BCSP quality is really watered down.

Unfortunately (in this Province) when it comes to soccer everything has become a big business. Clubs are hiring some "big" names, paying them a lot of money, fees are going up, administration (bureaucracy) is bigger and bigger every year, favouritism will be always there, etc.

Bottom line, choose a level for you kid in which he/she is comfortable and gets enough playing time and everything should be fine.

I agree with this ONLY because I strongly disagree with the cost and pay-to-play structure the BCPL represents. I think the model is backwards.

That stated, on principal I disagree. I was in this situation as a kid, and I think when we were kids, it was a lot simpler. If you didn't have a dad coaching or managing the team, you tried out for the level higher. You went through a fairly long process in the summer, and either made the squad, or didn't. If you didn't, you were placed at an appropriate level somewhere lower. Now, I may have been naive...I didn't have a parent involved in the game at all, so I just sort of went and tried out, usually at my coache's urging. I remember making an A"Gold" team (only high level was metro).

My first year was exactly as turningofthetide described. I was behind the established player at my position. I stayed with it because I didn't want to drop down, where I know I'd be a top level player. I wanted to be a top level player at the Gold level. By the end the the next year, I was getting those starting minutes. By the end of the next season, I was now getting pushed on to the next level by my coach.

So...the BCPL payment model asside, shouldn't part of becoming a better player be sticking with it through the tough times? If it were easy to just take those starting minutes, then something truly is broken. I tend to think there is a bit too much coddling these days, and (sorry TOTT), but too many parents whom have unrealistic expectations of what the process should be. At the BCPL level, it is now about developing the elite player, and teaching winning habbits. One of those traits has to be the willingness and ability to fight for minutes. That is done in training, and in games, where when you get a sniff, you need to make the most of it. Sorry man, I can't see how your kid has become a better player playing down a level where he already excelled. Maybe I'm missing something here...

 

[RL RCD]

At the BCPL level, it is now about developing the elite player, and teaching winning habbits. One of those traits has to be the willingness and ability to fight for minutes. That is done in training, and in games, where when you get a sniff, you need to make the most of it. Sorry man, I can't see how your kid has become a better player playing down a level where he already excelled. Maybe I'm missing something here...

Yes, you obviously missed a part in which turningthetide said that his kid was benched most of the time although the other players were just marginally better. His son played a year (BCPL) and, as he said, his son hardly improved. The key comment was also word "favouritism" by the coach. The only two options were to try out somewhere else or go to MSL which they did.

Coach's favouritism has been always an issue. It has been always easy for 2,3 stand-outs (in regards to playing time) but for the rest of kids it often comes down to who the coach's friend (or relative) is. It is a little bit better in BCPL because most coaches do not have their kids anymore in the same team but there is a lot of pressure coming from some club executives who should be in the team and even on the field.

By the way, if you charge somebody $2,000 for a season then you should have an obligation to really develop that player (whose parents are paying that much money). Practices are one thing but playing time is crucial.
By the way, a question: Why would any coach take into his BCPL team a player who is not BCPL caliber? Now, we are getting back to the beginning of the story when some parents do not want to pay that kind of money, the quality in BCPL is watered down, coaches do not often want to play "weaker" players (in order not to lose a game so they can save their pretty well paid P/T jobs) and in that process a player who does not get adequate playing time (whatever that may be) gets hurt.

In my opinion, better to move down in that situation, especially if you find a good coach at that lower level (and there are always some great guys who know what they are doing, who care, and who are not influenced by money).

 

[Dude]

Yes, you obviously missed a part in which turningthetide said that his kid was benched most of the time although the other players were just marginally better. His son played a year (BCPL) and, as he said, his son hardly improved. The key comment was also word "favouritism" by the coach. The only two options were to try out somewhere else or go to MSL which they did.

Coach's favouritism has been always an issue. It has been always easy for 2,3 stand-outs (in regards to playing time) but for the rest of kids it often comes down to who the coach's friend (or relative) is. It is a little bit better in BCPL because most coaches do not have their kids anymore in the same team but there is a lot of pressure coming from some club executives who should be in the team and even on the field.

By the way, if you charge somebody $2,000 for a season then you should have an obligation to really develop that player (whose parents are paying that much money). Practices are one thing but playing time is crucial.
By the way, a question: Why would any coach take into his BCPL team a player who is not BCPL caliber? Now, we are getting back to the beginning of the story when some parents do not want to pay that kind of money, the quality in BCPL is watered down, coaches do not often want to play "weaker" players (in order not to lose a game so they can save their pretty well paid P/T jobs) and in that process a player who does not get adequate playing time (whatever that may be) gets hurt.

In my opinion, better to move down in that situation, especially if you find a good coach at that lower level (and there are always some great guys who know what they are doing, who care, and who are not influenced by money).

OK, so coaches will always have their favorites, and usually it is the player that has been there longer. If they were not favorites, they would not be there. Point 1.

Point 2: part of becoming a better player is to harden the fcuk up. Fight for your spot in training, and earn it. There is always option #3: take everything from year 1 as a learning experience, train hard, and come back next year as a returning player, get a couple of bites in at training, and battle for the spot! When your number is called, make your time meaningfull.

Or, to your point, give up. That's OK too, I suppose.

From this point forward- "By the way, if you charge somebody $2,000 for a season then you should have an obligation to really develop that player (whose parents are paying that much money)" - I don't disagree, but we obviously have a bit of a difference of opinion of what development means when you reach the highest level. I believe that at the BCPL level, the player needs to be prepared to earn his position, not have it handed to him. Unfortunately, the model makes it all too easy for parents to have too much a say in that.

 

[Dude]

BTW, I shpould temper my post a bit.

If the kid's goal is to play at the highest level, then he needs to stick it out and keep pushing.

If it is to play at a reasonably high level while being in a featured role and getting boatloads of minutes, then what he did makes total sense.

Just don't tell me that the coach had it wrong, thus we took the kid out and placed him in a lower level because he's developing better there. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Sir M]

Sometimes coaches show "favouritism" to players that can cut it at the level that they are playing as opposed to those that are better placed at a lower level.

 

[Joel Hunt]

The Coach that likes and plays my kid....has vision...the one who sits my kid....he's a prick who's caught up in politics. ; )

 

[Regs]

It's funny cause it's true

 

[Dude]

What happens when you are @Ballbaby and you cut your kid?

Pick with vision?