Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
I agree, Reedie.
I agree, Reedie.
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BCPL- BC Premier League: Proposal
- Thread starter Dude
- Start date
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
from my perch in the peanut gallery, the whole "top of VMSL declining to play in the BCPL" just smells of protectionism.
It smells to me like people trying to protect their bubble and sense of entitlement,
just my $0.02 (And I know it's not worth anything)
It's just the pot calling the kettle black. They (VMSL Prem players and managers) run around their own league with no loyalty whatsoever (generally speaking) but think that this league will just add to that, like that is a bad thing, which is what they do best themselves... except this league would cause it to happen across leagues and just not inside Azzi's bubble.
Nobody currently cares about the VMSL, FVSL, and VISL save the players and family of players that play in it. Just changing the name and inviting press out would cause a rise in interest.
This league, imho, will fill a gap to serve the soccer fans that maybe aren't too into the MLS thing, or don't care enough, but want to watch decent football.
This thing could easily be sold on the same lines as WLA Lacrosse, Junior A Hockey, BCPL Baseball, BC Junior Football (These guys do it right with a couple hundred fans at each game with a small beer garden at the games etc)
It is a no brainer, but the people that would have their little world rocked a bit will oppose it for selfish reasons, like losing players and coaches to upstart teams, losing players based on geography, losing their spot as someone who might run or manage a team, losing their playing spot on a team.
from my perch in the peanut gallery, the whole "top of VMSL declining to play in the BCPL" just smells of protectionism.
It smells to me like people trying to protect their bubble and sense of entitlement,
just my $0.02 (And I know it's not worth anything)
It's just the pot calling the kettle black. They (VMSL Prem players and managers) run around their own league with no loyalty whatsoever (generally speaking) but think that this league will just add to that, like that is a bad thing, which is what they do best themselves... except this league would cause it to happen across leagues and just not inside Azzi's bubble.
Nobody currently cares about the VMSL, FVSL, and VISL save the players and family of players that play in it. Just changing the name and inviting press out would cause a rise in interest.
This league, imho, will fill a gap to serve the soccer fans that maybe aren't too into the MLS thing, or don't care enough, but want to watch decent football.
This thing could easily be sold on the same lines as WLA Lacrosse, Junior A Hockey, BCPL Baseball, BC Junior Football (These guys do it right with a couple hundred fans at each game with a small beer garden at the games etc)
It is a no brainer, but the people that would have their little world rocked a bit will oppose it for selfish reasons, like losing players and coaches to upstart teams, losing players based on geography, losing their spot as someone who might run or manage a team, losing their playing spot on a team.
- Admin
- #103
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
JBN,
To be fair, I think the issues are really a lack of details and consultation at a magnitude that justifies such a huge shake-up.
I've heard that teams should expect to spend $10K in order to participate... I don't know if that is the true figure or not but if so, that is hefty for what seems to have no true plans in place other than league alignment issues after the first year.
What I would like to hear is that there is a sponsorship committee in place and some dollars are already accounted for. Has BC Ferries been approached? A hotel chain? Get these things taken care of and I think you would see less teams voicing displeasure.
Personally, I think the idea is great BUT only if it is done with proper consultation for ALL those involved. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case so far from what I'm hearing.
At the end of the day, all teams/clubs care about is the Provincials and with the way the leagues will still get to determine who gets their berths, there isn't really too much further incentive to go to this new league especially if you weigh the costs/benefits as opposed to the status quo.
JBN,
To be fair, I think the issues are really a lack of details and consultation at a magnitude that justifies such a huge shake-up.
I've heard that teams should expect to spend $10K in order to participate... I don't know if that is the true figure or not but if so, that is hefty for what seems to have no true plans in place other than league alignment issues after the first year.
What I would like to hear is that there is a sponsorship committee in place and some dollars are already accounted for. Has BC Ferries been approached? A hotel chain? Get these things taken care of and I think you would see less teams voicing displeasure.
Personally, I think the idea is great BUT only if it is done with proper consultation for ALL those involved. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case so far from what I'm hearing.
At the end of the day, all teams/clubs care about is the Provincials and with the way the leagues will still get to determine who gets their berths, there isn't really too much further incentive to go to this new league especially if you weigh the costs/benefits as opposed to the status quo.
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
Thanks for your 2 cents...obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and if, at the end of the day, a strong majority of premier teams agree with you and would happily join the super league, than so be it...majority rules and I would support it.
I agree with you that loyalties run thin nowadays in the vmsl and fvsl...it's nothing like it used to be. However, the BC Premier League could take this to a whole new level. Let's say for instance that Peace Arch qualifies for the super league and Surrey United does not. Is it a positive thing to move all of the Surrey United Players over to the Peace Arch team? I think that would be a slap in the face to the Peace Arch team and club. I'm speaking hypothetically of course but you could see the same thing happening with Poco City and Metro Ford....or ACBC and ICST Pegasus
Seems a little flawed to me.
But let's get away from players hopping from team to team...what happens to the vmsl and the fvsl? Both leagues, which have a strong sense of history and tradition, would be decimated and that would be a shame. And who's to say what the island's opinion is about all of this...after all, these are the teams that would have the greatest expenses! Are they really on board with the super league and the impact it will have on the visl and their pocketbook?
But perhaps the most frustrating thing of all is the way in which this has transpired...it's very shaky. As I mentioned, I was not any of the meetings so I am ignorant as to what went on...but, based on speaking to some of other premier teams, the voting that was done seems to be rather dodgy. Again, based on what I have heard from those who were at the meetings, a majority of the premier teams were against the concept, or at least wanted to learn a lot more about it before committing to the new league...however, the new league suddenly became a reality before these questions were answered and before a final committment was even made by a majority of the premier teams. Instead, it was passed by a group of teams in the lower divisions of the vmsl.
With all due respect to Mr. Azzi, who does an absolutely unbelievable job running the vmsl, I think the premier teams need to revisit this BC Premier League ASAP, so it is crystal clear to everyone heading into this new season, as the implications are big for everyone. And I am fully aware that Mr. Azzi is probably getting conflicting reports from within the same clubs as to their level of committment with the super league and arranging meetings and votes within the league sounds like a horrific task. He does not have an easy job.
Thanks for your 2 cents...obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and if, at the end of the day, a strong majority of premier teams agree with you and would happily join the super league, than so be it...majority rules and I would support it.
I agree with you that loyalties run thin nowadays in the vmsl and fvsl...it's nothing like it used to be. However, the BC Premier League could take this to a whole new level. Let's say for instance that Peace Arch qualifies for the super league and Surrey United does not. Is it a positive thing to move all of the Surrey United Players over to the Peace Arch team? I think that would be a slap in the face to the Peace Arch team and club. I'm speaking hypothetically of course but you could see the same thing happening with Poco City and Metro Ford....or ACBC and ICST Pegasus
Seems a little flawed to me.But let's get away from players hopping from team to team...what happens to the vmsl and the fvsl? Both leagues, which have a strong sense of history and tradition, would be decimated and that would be a shame. And who's to say what the island's opinion is about all of this...after all, these are the teams that would have the greatest expenses! Are they really on board with the super league and the impact it will have on the visl and their pocketbook?
But perhaps the most frustrating thing of all is the way in which this has transpired...it's very shaky. As I mentioned, I was not any of the meetings so I am ignorant as to what went on...but, based on speaking to some of other premier teams, the voting that was done seems to be rather dodgy. Again, based on what I have heard from those who were at the meetings, a majority of the premier teams were against the concept, or at least wanted to learn a lot more about it before committing to the new league...however, the new league suddenly became a reality before these questions were answered and before a final committment was even made by a majority of the premier teams. Instead, it was passed by a group of teams in the lower divisions of the vmsl.
With all due respect to Mr. Azzi, who does an absolutely unbelievable job running the vmsl, I think the premier teams need to revisit this BC Premier League ASAP, so it is crystal clear to everyone heading into this new season, as the implications are big for everyone. And I am fully aware that Mr. Azzi is probably getting conflicting reports from within the same clubs as to their level of committment with the super league and arranging meetings and votes within the league sounds like a horrific task. He does not have an easy job.
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
Oh I agree wholeheartedly there.
This isn't something you draw up on a cocktail napkin and ram down the teams throats.
I'm sure that wasn't done, and I'm also sure that zero consultation was not an issue as well. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.
I'd also agree that the CURRENT Premier sides in all 3 leagues should have voted on this and not ALL the clubs as there will always be 3 or 4 clubs to each Prem team in the lower divisions that of course vote in favor of this as it means everyone will instantly jump up the pyramid/food chain 4 spots respectively.
That being said there are obviously hard feelings from some current VMSL Sides that feel the consultation wasn't there and it was more of something that was dictated, which totally isn't fair.
They say it's always about the details, and of course logistical costs will be an issue for most, but that is something easily overcome with a bit of planning... which is probably what was ultimately lost in the shuffle.
going back to the original thread that was ultimately killed by that "muppet" larsson and his thread crapping, there didn't seem to be much opposition then... makes you wonder...
Oh I agree wholeheartedly there.
This isn't something you draw up on a cocktail napkin and ram down the teams throats.
I'm sure that wasn't done, and I'm also sure that zero consultation was not an issue as well. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.
I'd also agree that the CURRENT Premier sides in all 3 leagues should have voted on this and not ALL the clubs as there will always be 3 or 4 clubs to each Prem team in the lower divisions that of course vote in favor of this as it means everyone will instantly jump up the pyramid/food chain 4 spots respectively.
That being said there are obviously hard feelings from some current VMSL Sides that feel the consultation wasn't there and it was more of something that was dictated, which totally isn't fair.
They say it's always about the details, and of course logistical costs will be an issue for most, but that is something easily overcome with a bit of planning... which is probably what was ultimately lost in the shuffle.
going back to the original thread that was ultimately killed by that "muppet" larsson and his thread crapping, there didn't seem to be much opposition then... makes you wonder...
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
also just to add, at least in the valley anyways, the top 4 or 5 always are the same, I am not as familiar with the VMSL... So it is always, again in the Valley anyways, a three/four horse race traditionally with LUFC, PAU, and two or three others.
The leagues middle class teams would then be "the show" for the league, which would be played very intensely in order to advance to the next level.
IIRC the Pak and Imperial Cups would still be held under this proposition, and there is where your history lies, not with the league per se.
also just to add, at least in the valley anyways, the top 4 or 5 always are the same, I am not as familiar with the VMSL... So it is always, again in the Valley anyways, a three/four horse race traditionally with LUFC, PAU, and two or three others.
The leagues middle class teams would then be "the show" for the league, which would be played very intensely in order to advance to the next level.
IIRC the Pak and Imperial Cups would still be held under this proposition, and there is where your history lies, not with the league per se.
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
I'm afraid that winning the Pak or Imperial Cup wouldn't mean quite the same anymore since the top competition would be gone.
I'm afraid that winning the Pak or Imperial Cup wouldn't mean quite the same anymore since the top competition would be gone.
vancitysbest
Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
I heard alleyezonme is starting his own league to rival the superleague.
All games will be played at Endersby Park in Delta, and the league will be subsequently called the E.P.P.T. (Endersby Park Pro Tour). Provisions are in place for the new league to start up this fall.
Unfortunately, this new league will be recruiting 3/4 of SU big egos. These players will receive "free" G.I.B IPA's for every goal they score and a complimentary "3" zone transit pass.
There is a possible TV deal to be put in place as well. Delta Cable is in serious contract talks to remove the saturday night lineup of the "fire log show" and "Delta politics unleashed!" with the E.P.P.T.
Hope everyone can support the new wave of B.C. soccer! It's an exciting time.
Any players or teams interested please BBM: 778-999-3894
I heard alleyezonme is starting his own league to rival the superleague.
All games will be played at Endersby Park in Delta, and the league will be subsequently called the E.P.P.T. (Endersby Park Pro Tour). Provisions are in place for the new league to start up this fall.
Unfortunately, this new league will be recruiting 3/4 of SU big egos. These players will receive "free" G.I.B IPA's for every goal they score and a complimentary "3" zone transit pass.
There is a possible TV deal to be put in place as well. Delta Cable is in serious contract talks to remove the saturday night lineup of the "fire log show" and "Delta politics unleashed!" with the E.P.P.T.
Hope everyone can support the new wave of B.C. soccer! It's an exciting time.
Any players or teams interested please BBM: 778-999-3894
- Admin
- #110
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
As far as I know, the league cups would still include the teams in the super-league... at least nothing has been said to the contrary and there really isn't any reason why those teams wouldn't still compete.
As far as I know, the league cups would still include the teams in the super-league... at least nothing has been said to the contrary and there really isn't any reason why those teams wouldn't still compete.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
So when it comes to Provincial Cup play........Is the only hope of VMSL Premier teams now through the Imperial Cup? Since the 'Super League' teams are in the super league do they already qualify for Provincial Cup play? If you're in the top 4 in the Super League, you're in ? Overall, this BC Super League is looking better by the minute.
So when it comes to Provincial Cup play........Is the only hope of VMSL Premier teams now through the Imperial Cup? Since the 'Super League' teams are in the super league do they already qualify for Provincial Cup play? If you're in the top 4 in the Super League, you're in ? Overall, this BC Super League is looking better by the minute.
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
From what history has shown, the clubs that want to be in the best league in the Greater Vancouver area, have transferred to the VMSL (Surrey, Delta). If quality clubs like PAU wanted to be a part of a better league, they should "merge" with a div 1 team such as Sporting.
Al the "superleague" is doing is allowing a couple of island teams to play some decent competition during the regular season... rather than just in provincials.
From what history has shown, the clubs that want to be in the best league in the Greater Vancouver area, have transferred to the VMSL (Surrey, Delta). If quality clubs like PAU wanted to be a part of a better league, they should "merge" with a div 1 team such as Sporting.
Al the "superleague" is doing is allowing a couple of island teams to play some decent competition during the regular season... rather than just in provincials.
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
Remember this?
Dude had posted... I have highlighted the items that have been debated for a while now...
Remember this?
Dude had posted... I have highlighted the items that have been debated for a while now...
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
Also, some investigative sleuthing on my part has come up with some stuff that may or may not surprise some people here, but obviously not all the facts are being shared fairly and equitably, so here goes..
1. A Major Sponsor is in the works. I'll leave it just at that.
2. Travel is a concern, but it has been/is being addressed. See point 1 and other plans will help.
3. I was also told that JUST the Premier teams, from each home league, did vote, and it PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
4. Then the League Executives voted, again a pass unanimously.
5. The committee set up parameters in which the home leagues were to work in, therefore if one league's teams feel particularly hard done by, it's the home leagues fault and not the BCPL Committee... funny that the teams in the home league with the most to lose (Sense of entitlement blah blah blah) are the ones whinging about this now
All of this can be backed up with Meeting Minutes, which is obviously a lot more truthful and accurate than hearsay and rumor mongering on the part of us folk rabbitting on about it on TTP behind the anonymity of usernames.
Also, some investigative sleuthing on my part has come up with some stuff that may or may not surprise some people here, but obviously not all the facts are being shared fairly and equitably, so here goes..
1. A Major Sponsor is in the works. I'll leave it just at that.
2. Travel is a concern, but it has been/is being addressed. See point 1 and other plans will help.
3. I was also told that JUST the Premier teams, from each home league, did vote, and it PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
4. Then the League Executives voted, again a pass unanimously.
5. The committee set up parameters in which the home leagues were to work in, therefore if one league's teams feel particularly hard done by, it's the home leagues fault and not the BCPL Committee... funny that the teams in the home league with the most to lose (Sense of entitlement blah blah blah) are the ones whinging about this now
All of this can be backed up with Meeting Minutes, which is obviously a lot more truthful and accurate than hearsay and rumor mongering on the part of us folk rabbitting on about it on TTP behind the anonymity of usernames.
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
Can someone who was at the meeting please explain to JBN that the "vote" was to go forward to find out more information about how this would work... not for the approval to join the BCPL. Please. Kippax? Burnro? Bueller?
Can someone who was at the meeting please explain to JBN that the "vote" was to go forward to find out more information about how this would work... not for the approval to join the BCPL. Please. Kippax? Burnro? Bueller?
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
Anyone Anyone?
Really I am not trying to stir the pot. I am trying to play devils advocate.
I have no stake in this at all, aside from perhaps being a spectator at BCPL Matches.
I feel like, perhaps, the VMSL potentially did not follow the protocol, or they did and potential meathead managers weren't willing to pull the wax out of their ears and listen well enough to hear what was being voted on...
If this is the case, either way, the teams have a gripe with Azzi and the VMSL. As far as I can tell the VISL and FVSL are 100% in and raring to go.
also about informing me, like I said I don't care one way or the other... I am being told from multiple good sources that the post I made containing the facts are the facts as help by the BCPL Committee and by others. I am just passing along information while playing a bit of devils advocate.
~Don'tShootTheMessenger.
Anyone Anyone?
Really I am not trying to stir the pot. I am trying to play devils advocate.
I have no stake in this at all, aside from perhaps being a spectator at BCPL Matches.
I feel like, perhaps, the VMSL potentially did not follow the protocol, or they did and potential meathead managers weren't willing to pull the wax out of their ears and listen well enough to hear what was being voted on...
If this is the case, either way, the teams have a gripe with Azzi and the VMSL. As far as I can tell the VISL and FVSL are 100% in and raring to go.
also about informing me, like I said I don't care one way or the other... I am being told from multiple good sources that the post I made containing the facts are the facts as help by the BCPL Committee and by others. I am just passing along information while playing a bit of devils advocate.
~Don'tShootTheMessenger.
Re: [VMSL Premier] Who will come out on top in the VMSL 2009/10
someone should get ahold of Azzi's Bank statement..
I'd be interested in the deposit column the day after the vote.
someone should get ahold of Azzi's Bank statement..
I'd be interested in the deposit column the day after the vote.
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