Premier [VMSL Premier] Results & Banter - Oct 05'

[Captain Shamrock]

True enough. We played our worst game in probably 5 years. It could have been 5 - 1.

But my biggest question is what is a hand ball these days? A ball is crossed on the ground and a Bby player tries to 1-time it. He mis-hits it and the ball hits him in his out-stretched hand. Is this a hand ball?

According to Paul Ward, the player didn't intentionally hand ball it. So no hand ball. But an intentional hand ball is a yellow card. Thus, according to Paul Ward, all hand balls are intentional. Thus all calls must come with a yellow (or red if it's in the box). WALKS, any comment?

I'm not in Walks league but I can answer that. It completely depends on the situation. It sounds like a ball to hand rather than hand to ball. If a player goes to block a players shot with his hands outstretched, the ref will more than likely give a penalty kick. He won't be carded for this because you can only card for intentional hand ball. If a player miskicks a ball into his hand and there is little or no chance of impacting the other team's chance of scoring, it will probably be ignored. It happened in one of the games I reffed on the weekend. The same thing where a player tried clearing a ball, with no on the other team around him, an it clipped his hand, which was right beside his body. Play on. It is more about reacting to the situation and seeing what is going on around the player. That's the way I would interpret it..........

 

[whataboutbob]

I can't find anything on it in the FIFA rule book, other than a hand ball is a direct free kick. I think refs should give their interpretation of it before games so it's really clear.

BTW, one of the Bby player's hands were outstretched for balance purposes.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I can't find anything on it in the FIFA rule book, other than a hand ball is a direct free kick. I think refs should give their interpretation of it before games so it's really clear.

BTW, one of the Bby player's hands were outstretched for balance purposes.

There's a FIFA rule book?


Seriously, WAB, it is always a direct free kick but it is also the refs interpretation of hand to ball / ball to hand and most importantly the situation............

 

[peter]

Here's the link to FIFA's Law 12.

I always thought that if you played the ball into your own hand or if you missed a bouncing ball and it hit you in the hand it was a foul, but since my wife became a ref all sorts of things have been brought to my attention...

 

[fuzzy]

Here's the link to FIFA's Law 12.

I always thought that if you played the ball into your own hand or if you missed a bouncing ball and it hit you in the hand it was a foul, but since my wife became a ref all sorts of things have been brought to my attention...

If the handball in not deliberate, can the ref award an indirect free kick?


I liked the Captain's earlier interpretation. It is difficult to determine someone else's intentions. The entire situation should be considered; the extent of the advantage gained by the handball is more important IMO.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

If the handball in not deliberate, can the ref award an indirect free kick?

Never. It is always a direct kick, just like someone going for the ball but missing it and fouling the person. It will always be a direct kick.

 

[whataboutbob]

I know that all hand balls are direct.

Then the FIFA rule book, in my opinion, is incomplete. No where in the rule book does it say it is up to the referees discretion of hand play ball/ ball play hand. The rule states that a hand ball must be deliberate. Deliberate has intent; Period. According to FIFA, a deliberate hand ball is unsportsmanlike conduct and unsportsmanlike conduct is a yellow card. Thus all hand ball calls should be yellows.

Looking back on my senior mens playing career, I may have seen 4-5 deliberate hand balls. But refs have called about 200 hand ball fouls. No wonder there is anarchy when a hand ball PK is a call or no-call.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I know that all hand balls are direct.

Then the FIFA rule book, in my opinion, is incomplete. No where in the rule book does it say it is up to the referees discretion of hand play ball/ ball play hand. The rule states that a hand ball must be deliberate. Deliberate has intent; Period. According to FIFA, a deliberate hand ball is unsportsmanlike conduct and unsportsmanlike conduct is a yellow card. Thus all hand ball calls should be yellows.

Looking back on my senior mens playing career, I may have seen 4-5 deliberate hand balls. But refs have called about 200 hand ball fouls. No wonder there is anarchy when a hand ball PK is a call or no-call.

Perhaps they should include LAW 18, which is common sense.

 

[Dude]

No kidding...

 

[whataboutbob]

Perhaps they should include LAW 18, which is common sense.

Ahhhh......the old "common sense" back out. Do we really want to go there?!

 

[Hands of Stone]

Ya, we are talking about Sapperton here, there is no common sense with that lot.

hos

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Ahhhh......the old "common sense" back out. Do we really want to go there?!

So what did the head ref say to you when you were attending your last refresher course? The most important thing to have as a ref is common sense. It is 'Law 18' and there is no need to go there if you don't want to try and understand it.

 

[Kaiser]

I am getting a little tired of this whole " hand ball " debate. Every ref that I ask seems to have a different answer. If the ball hits your hand intentional or not and you gain an advantage blow the whistle.Now we have guys defending with their arms out like basketball players. I thought you were not allowed to use your hands in soccer.

 

[pearsy]

MF 1 Firemen

Tightly contested game with MF scoring halfway through the first half, we came out with a lot more energy in the second and took it to them but couldn't get the equilizer despite some quality chances. Yours truly missed a sitter with 15 minutes left which should have tied it up. A strong effort from the boys though.

 

[whataboutbob]

I am getting a little tired of this whole " hand ball " debate. Every ref that I ask seems to have a different answer. If the ball hits your hand intentional or not and you gain an advantage blow the whistle.Now we have guys defending with their arms out like basketball players. I thought you were not allowed to use your hands in soccer.

Exactly!
"Common sense" don't work because everyone interpretes common sense differently.

 

[knvb]

SU 3 - Sap. 0.

No I'm not.

Millar was doing hookers and blow with sporting before the game.

 

[coach]

Nice Win Surrey!

Nice phone call KNVB.

Softhead Mish? Easy big fella!

 

[bazza]

Here's a question for you re; Rhino's Westside vs Norvan Eagles.
Both teams are at Hillcrest park and ready to play {well at least Norvan was}. The ref. and his linesmen checked the feild and said the game was on, just like the two other games being played on fileds next to ours. The Rhinos coach/manager says he doesn't want to play fearing they will damage the feild and get fined. Now here is the question: is this just a cancelationdue to the game not being played, or is this 3 points for Norvan because the ref said the game was on and it was Westside that refused to play?
I am not looking for easy points since we would have won anyways, its just a pissoff to travel, get ready, be told by the ref that the game is on and then have the home team decline to play.
What do you all think?

 

[Sir M]

Here's a question for you re; Rhino's Westside vs Norvan Eagles.
What do you all think?

"I think"... they are actually called Westside Rino's.

 

[Regs]

The points should be Norvan's, end of story.

Well, probably not... expect a ruling next spring on this