Refs

[Fanatic]

How about honouring those refs who do a good job. Have the league sponsor a reward system, part symbolic, part monetary. Coaches and players make a point of finding out the name of the ref who did a great job officiating your game and nominate him.

It has to start though with the teenagers reffing the youth games. They need time and encouragement to develop their skills and their confidence. Too often they are discouraged by the abuse from players, parents and sadly, coaches.

 

[Dude]

Won't work

That may help in keeping some of the existing refs in the game, but won't help in attracting new refs to the men's game. The only way to keep them involved through to the higher levels is by paying more money.

Sorry guys (Coppertone), but $40.00 per game? What should we expect?

 

[Regs]

From what I remember from a conversation I had with one of our referees a couple of months ago (he's also a TTPer but doesn't have the balls to post, much like some of his non-calls ), A referee in this province can make more money doing a metro girls game than one of ours.

That's pretty pathetic when you think about it.

~TB.

 

[Mr Coppertone]

$40.00

First, I think that the 40.00 they get for 90 minutes of work is more than enough. What are you going to do give them more money for the same shite refs. I think giving them more money won't make a difference at all. They have to get some balls and start making more calls. They have to worry about the game a little more and not worry about the sidelines. I see there problems with the players and people on the sidelines, but I think that if they mad at least an effort to ref the game, and not make spectacles(sp?) of themselves everytime they get on the field, we may have a more then a handful of good refs. All I ask is a ref that watches the game and at least trys to make the calls when needed is that to much to ask for?

 

[Dude]

Would you do it for $40.00?

Coppertone,

Would you ref ANY men's game for $40.00? You aren't going to improve what we have now by telling them to grow some stones. We know the good ones, and we know the bad ones. Unfortunately, many of the good ones have better things to do w/ their Sunday. Bobby Brown- in my opinion- is the best ref I've ever seen on the pitch, but I haven't had him since 1995 when he did one of my College games out in the Valley. I play in the FVSL now, and Bobby- from what I have seen- hasn't officiated a game in years. Neil Fuge tells me he occasionally does some girls games, but that's about it.

The solution is simple: pay more, get better quality. I'm still in shock that you think $40.00 is a fair going rate. If you pay a shite rate, expect shite quality.

 

[kurgan]

What are you going to do give them more money for the same shite refs?

No. the point is you'd attract new, better refs. And assistant refs.

The whole culture of Canadian sports is 'blame the refs'. I was watching the Peg-Serb and Inter-Sap games this weekend and what I heard on the sidelines was everyone making comments about niggly things like missed throw in-calls. The Serb coach ran out onto the field at half time to protest a free kick that resulted in Peg's first goal. Did he blame the player who chopped someone down at 20 yards from goal? Whould the Peg players have screamed if he hadn't made the very obvious call? If coaches were as quick to criticize their players for mistakes (and there were some doozies on Sat.), or as harsh, we'd see a lot more players walk away from their teams to go play elsewhere. Is it surprising that so many good young refs walk away? Would you stick around on a team where you got screamed at even when you were right? Tell me how many players haven't raised their hand and appealed to the ref for a corner when thy've had a shocking miss and then screamed at him to hide theri own frustration and to shift the blame from themselves?

It's always easy to blame the ref. Add the the money and the crap together and you get what we have in Vancouver now - a couple of good refs surrounded by a cast of idiots.

 

[Mr Coppertone]

Kurgan

If you can sit there and defend these refs then fine, but I am not going to go back and forth saying and hearing the same things. I know people make mistakes, but when there are three officials on the field the mistakes should be at a minimum. Why do you have three officials then, so they can be spectators? I am tired of teams getting away with fouls and other infractions which the linesmen can see. I think that the refs should consult with each other more on the field this will cut down on a lot of the calls. Agaisnt Peg we had a questionable peno clled agaisnt us. The linesmen on our side said I can't believe the ref called that. Obviously the linesmen had a better view and why would he not be able to say anything to the ref. This will cut down on the mistakes if you let the linesmen be a little more active in the game.

 

[Dude]

You don't get it.

Coppertone- you don't get it...

We AGREE with you! For the most part, officiating in both Lower Mainland Men's league is questionable, at best. If there was a questionable call, the ref should have consulted with the linesman. The better refs will listen to the Captain's request to first go check w/ the linesman. I'm assuming your Captain made this request. If not, blame him. A good Captain would be right on top of the situation, and calmly say: "Before making your decision, can you first check with your Linesman?". This gives the ref an opportunity to save face, and most of the time they will check- if they were unsure in the first place. The only way they shouldn't check is if they had a clear view of the play, and were 100% sure. There are, of course, the obvious exceptions who shall go unnamed (Maurizio).

Bottom line: your earlier suggestion of giving these guys a pay cut would make the problem exponentially worse. The idea behind doubling the pay is to encourage others to take up the "Proffession", which in turn would give the schedulers a better crop of officials to choose from, and eventually weed out the poor officials.

Simple economics man! I make way too much sense

 

[Mr Coppertone]

Ok

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[kurgan]

Before making your decision, can you first check with your Linesman?". This gives the ref an opportunity to save face, and most of the time they will check

Maybe we someone should try it next week and report back to TTP:

"Excuse me, Mr. Navarro, I think that you might be mistaken. Could you consult with you assistant over there WHO HAS A FCUKING CLUE?"

Ah, 'tis a perfect world we live in. Another point to be made here is, at least in the VMSL, Div 1 and lower games don't get graced with linesmen.

 

[Dude]

Point taken

Kurgan: Same in the Valley, with the exception of playoffs or cup games. I've actually taken advantage during games w/ linesmen before. On two occasions I had a call get reversed into our favor, and on one the ref politely told me that he had clear view of the play, explained it, and we carried on. On another occasion- I think his name Mr. Au, out in the Valley- he told me "As Captain, you need to keep your players under better control", then promptly flashed yellow. And I loose it! This guy- no joke- is easily as much a dictator as Maurizio.

So, sometimes you'll get the dump fukcwit dictator who no only doesn't have a clue, but also thinks it’s his show.

No Dorothy, 'tis not a perfect world.

 

[Fanatic]

Competitive Wage

Sure, pay the ref's a competitive wage, but throwing money at the problem is not in itself, a solution. You would still have the same refs, just making more money for poor calls.

My personal (and totally uninformed) opinion is that good refs do not go into reffing for the money and won't stay because of it either. I believe they love the game and as long as it is an enjoyalbe experience for them, they will continue. Sure they will want to be paid a competitive wage, no one wants to feel underpaid and undervalued. But, I don't think any amount of money will keep good refs if they have to endure verbal abuse and occasionally threats of physical abuse.

Make it an honoured and valued role (like teachers used to be) and I think there will be more willing to take it up.

 

[kurgan]

I believe they love the game

But perhaps not as much as they love themselves...

I have, sitting on my desk in front of me, my BC Refs Association package to send in. I'm sitting here trying to decide if I want to send it in. Is it really worth it? It's gonna cost me $50 to register with BC Soccer and another $40 to join the ref's association. Oh yeah, and the stamp.

I ask myself... How much do I love the game

 

[Fanatic]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I ask myself... How much do I love the game

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But what's the real reason you haven't sent in your registration? Would it be in the mail already if you got paid more?

 

[Dude]

Sorry, money is the solution (to both)

Not to get into a political debate here, but the one of the major problems in our province is the brain drain, with nurses and teachers at the top of the list. Why? They can go elsewhere to get a more competitive wage. The honor only gets you so much. Keep in mind, I would consider myself more of a Conservative than Democrat.

Anyone who knows me knows I love this game to death. There is no bigger asshole in the city when my games get rained out on Sunday. That said, the job of officiating is the dogs breakfast of the soccer world. Paying a more competitive wage will bring back some who are willing to endure so abuse for $80.00 / game instead of $40.00. If you can increase the pool of talented refs, the officials considered "the best" would be scheduled more often than the officials considered "the worst". Throwing money at the problem isn't the only solution, but it is the biggest and most obvious. Guys would rather make the extra $40.00 than win a silly plaque.

That's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Fanatic]

Re: Sorry, money is the solution (to both)

Originally posted by Dude-where'smycar?
There is no bigger asshole in the city when my games get rained out on Sunday.

Bigger than Motorhome????

 

[Dude]

Yep

Bigger than Motorhome...and I'm sure he'd agree!

 

[Keeper]

Today we had that good ref I mentioned several weeks back. Got his name this time: Roger T. (can't remember how to pronounce it). He proved it again today: he's one of the better refs in the VMSL.

Hats off to him.

 

[Pylon]

You want a bad ref - here's one that kills: David Fortt.

Talk about a ref with his head up his butt. Calls the halfs short on purpose so he can go home early. Players are viciously and brutally hacked (or attacked), and he either doesn't make a call, or he cards the wrong player. Totally scared to give out a card, and when he does, his match report makes you wonder which game you were at. Not only is he senile, it's literally dangerous to have him as a referee. He should be banned.

When I played for some farmer's league on Saturday mornings, we'd always get Bob Brown (he's the best in the lower mainland, IMHO) as a referee. When I play some fairly competitive ball, I find a lot of the referees act like they are referees, but they're calls do not show it. And I don't mean the basic things, like missing which way a throw-in should go. I could care less as by the end of the match that will pretty much even itself out. It's the lack of control they have over a game, and the way they deal with dangerous tackles. They don't set the tone and control the game at the start, and things get out of hand. Then they make rash calls. Or, they call everything and anything, and totally ruin the flow of the game.

Referees police themselves, like lawyers, so what can the players do? Teams should be required to provide feedback on the referee's performance during a game.

Baaahhh, I'm ranting again....

 

[Pylon]

Re: REFS?

Originally posted by Jimmy Holiday
Does anyone remmber the name of the ref that sent people off for bumming?I heard he fell very ill.It was always a blast playing in a game that he refereed.

Joala (sp?). I believe he had kidney problems, but is apparently OK.

Long time ago, I used to kick around with him. He's a great guy, and I hope his health is good.