New Youth HPL league

[Jigsaw]

For what it is worth, I will put in my 2 cents worth.
I think that the HPL will be a good thing, but will take a little time to become "fine tuned".
There are some excellent Coaches coaching in the different clubs and the standard of play is and will be very good.
The problem for the "dedicated Player's" is what happens next and how do they kick on to the next level?
The Provincial Program has to be the next step, as they are the "showcase" for the National Team Selectors.
The more recognitionan and experience at the "higher level" will give the better player's a chance to be seen by the "Pro' Clubs".
The problem is at the Provincial level and getting the best kids in the program.
I used to coach the Provincial Team many years ago and one thing I used to do, was to call by phone (yes phone) every coach in the top league and ask them to supply me with all the names of the best player's in the league, but not your own team.
The list compiled of the same player's in most cases.
Those player's need to be looked at seriously.
Then scout the games and look for raw talent and proceed from there. Cut down the cost, by not travelling all over the world and actually "Coach" the player's and "develop" them.
I guarantee that the National Team Staff will want the best player's on their squads.

The HPL, Provincial Program and the NTC have to work together and do "what is best for the player" and not what is best for the coach.
We have the programs already in place, now we need to Harmonize the powers that be and work together for the sake of the game and the player's.

"my finger is killing me, with all of this typing".

 

[TulioMaravilha]

So true, and I'm glad Captain pointed it out. And you know what? Our comparring w/ athletes from South American countries is like comparring apples to oranges. Spend a bit of time down there and you'll see exactly why the specialize...the few that are playing don't have much choice. The countries don't have nearly the abundance of facilities or opportunity in general.

I hate being the guys that says "back in the day", but back in the day, we all played a bunch of sports! And you know what? The crop of players born between 1965 - 1975 did pretty well...a lot of guys went on to bigger and better things in the game, certainly it seems more than are doing these days.

Now, not saying that the HPL model- at least on the season time- is all wrong. I actually like that part (I think it could be two months shorter, though), I just don't like the contract of exclusivity / specialization.

I wouldn't know, only spent there the first 36 years of my life (plus going back pretty much every year since moving here) ;-)

Dude, you're partially right. You gotta realize that there are 2 realities in Brazil and all other third world countries. If you are upper middle class and up, you have access to whatever catches your fancy (I did judo, basketball, swimming, tennis, etc.). If you're not that lucky, you end up only playing with your buddies outside and what could be cheaper than getting a ball and kicking it around? So soccer, it is. The common ground between the 2 groups is that, generally, nobody plays organized competitive sports (i.e. coaches, refs, strict rules) until they are 12ish. Then, if they are good enough to make it into the youth system of a club, they specialize. This certainly happens with soccer (where almost all players picked are from lower social groups) but it also happens with every other sport there. We have strong participation in other team and individual sports (volleyball, basketball, tennis, swimming) and those athletes all but have dropped other activities once they began to compete in their chosen sport. BTW, it's really no different in Europe since, as far as I know, Rooney, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Ozil, etc. were not likely to be playing baseball in the off season when in their formative years. It is just a different mindset and the norm outside of North America is specialization once you move to the competitive side.

Now, I'm not saying this is the best for the general population but, IMHO, players who aspire to play in a higher arena (MNT, collegiate, pro level) will benefit from specializing in their early teens (and isn't this the point of having a "high performance" league, forming more and better players to those levels?). BTW, we do this in other sports already don't we? I doubt the typical potential olympic hopeful in gymnastics, figure skating, etc. have been doing much else since they were 5. And how about Agassi, Sampras and Tiger? Do you truly believe they were well rounded kids? The difference is that here we accept specialization more for individual sports than collective ones....

 

[Mr Base]

Guys what the heck is HPL got to do with Brasil or multy sports. In Brasil kids play soccer due to 30% of folks have no money to put the kids in other very coastly sports. Kids here play soccer to pass time and be with their friends. HPL is a step in a proper direction for the kids and parents that want to play in higher levels. Just because you play on HPL team is no garantee you will have a spot on a Provincial or National side. It is not what you know. It is all about who do you know. In Burnaby selects take five boys from one club and one boy from all the rest of the clubs. Onley due to all the coaching and board powers comming from that club. With HPL things will change. Coaches are getting paid. A head guy has total soccer sence he will onley take coaches that know the game. Parents coaching is over. To me just these few points will make it more fare to kids. That is all what is wrong localy here. So many athletic kids do not get the chance becaue his or her patent was not at the control point.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

Base, you have to realize that one of the standing concerns for some in regards to the HPL is that it forces specialization and full committment to soccer at U13. And that's why we are discussing here (BTW, the figure for Brasil is more like 90% of folks).

I for one, believe that a league that purposes to be the breeding ground for players that hope to achieve the next level (whatever it is), cannot avoid structuring itself as a full-year league and that the players in it will have to opt for (early) specialization. There are certainly other opinions on this (with valid arguments against it) and since this thread has been discussing the pros and cons of the HPL it seems appropriate that we would talk about it.

 

[Dude]

I wouldn't know, only spent there the first 36 years of my life (plus going back pretty much every year since moving here) ;-)

Dude, you're partially right. You gotta realize that there are 2 realities in Brazil and all other third world countries. If you are upper middle class and up, you have access to whatever catches your fancy (I did judo, basketball, swimming, tennis, etc.). If you're not that lucky, you end up only playing with your buddies outside and what could be cheaper than getting a ball and kicking it around? So soccer, it is. The common ground between the 2 groups is that, generally, nobody plays organized competitive sports (i.e. coaches, refs, strict rules) until they are 12ish. Then, if they are good enough to make it into the youth system of a club, they specialize. This certainly happens with soccer (where almost all players picked are from lower social groups) but it also happens with every other sport there. We have strong participation in other team and individual sports (volleyball, basketball, tennis, swimming) and those athletes all but have dropped other activities once they began to compete in their chosen sport. BTW, it's really no different in Europe since, as far as I know, Rooney, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Ozil, etc. were not likely to be playing baseball in the off season when in their formative years. It is just a different mindset and the norm outside of North America is specialization once you move to the competitive side.

Now, I'm not saying this is the best for the general population but, IMHO, players who aspire to play in a higher arena (MNT, collegiate, pro level) will benefit from specializing in their early teens (and isn't this the point of having a "high performance" league, forming more and better players to those levels?). BTW, we do this in other sports already don't we? I doubt the typical potential olympic hopeful in gymnastics, figure skating, etc. have been doing much else since they were 5. And how about Agassi, Sampras and Tiger? Do you truly believe they were well rounded kids? The difference is that here we accept specialization more for individual sports than collective ones....

Tulio,

You're of course bang on. I've travelled enough over Europe & both Central & South America to form my opinion on this. Before seeing Spain and Portugal, for example, my impression was I'd see pitches and youth leagues everywhere. Not the case. Even in the wealthier European countries, they do not have the abundance of facilities we enjoy. Yes, you saw a lot of kids playing, but mostly in the streets. Take that and apply it to South America, but drop the poverty level way down.

The lower the poverty level, the wider the gap between classes...and yes, the upper class in these countries will have what they want, opportunity wise, for their kids.

I guess my point is, we have to both implement successful strategies from affar, while looking to what we know and do best. Canada has had success in sports under our current system, so you can say there are pros and cons to all arguments. We've proven that w/ funding, our athletes can and do compete w/ the best in the world. We can also argue that funding in soccer has been badly mismanaged for decades here, on top of not having a domestic pro league of any substance since the NASL days. That's a double negative, and it doesn't help that soccer is the most competitively played sport on the globe.

Well, the MLS is here now, will bein the three biggest cities in Canada. The structure is forming domestically as we speak to support the goal of placing more Canadian kids onto MLS squads.

I feel specialization before a kid's grade 8 year is pointless. Geat athletes will be great athletes, no matter what. They will play sports. There are arguments both ways about starting specialization only at the grade 8 year; I personally buy into diversification because it is best for the overall development of the athlete long term. Many of our kids who are now specializing at 9 years old and on will be burnt out on their sport by age 16, and if that's the case, it defeats the purpose of specializing.

My 2 bits.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

I guess my point is, we have to both implement successful strategies from affar, while looking to what we know and do best. Canada has had success in sports under our current system, so you can say there are pros and cons to all arguments.

Couldn't agree more.
That's why I usually avoid talking about what I have experienced and what is the norm abroad in terms of league structure. Implementing a foreign model, however proven, without regard for the cultural differences between the countries can be recipe for disaster. I feel that the HPL wil be a step up from what is out there (to the select few that go on to play there) without departing radically from what people expect and are prepared to accept.

If I had god-like control of the whole system in BC/Canada would I structure it the same? Most probably not because my ingrained bias of how soccer should be organized and played would come into play. And I wouldn't be surprised if my "perfect" model collapsed once real canadian kids and families were brought into the equation. So I take the system here for what it is, try to make the best of it and operate within it for betterment of the sport. If I can, I will be involved with the HPL either as a coach or as a parent because I believe it CAN be an improvement on our system. Now, if it's going to be all that people hope and help raise canadian soccer from the pitiful situation it is (on the men's side at least), only time will tell.

 

[bettermirror]

Tulio. I see you are from Maple Ridge. What are your thougths, if any, regarding the newly forming Pacific Athletic FC. What if they don't get into HPL. Will PAFC participate in direct competition with North Fraser Selects in the reformed metro/gold division and try to join HPL in the future, as Langley United has announced they will do?

 

[TulioMaravilha]

Not really the best person here to opine in the subject.
For a number of reasons, most notably my disillusionment on how clubs in my district treated competitive soccer, I have not coached and my kids have not played in any of the clubs in PAFC for a number of years.
I'd only say that I hope the clubs are doing these alliances for the right reasons and that they have learned from the mistakes of the past....

 

[bettermirror]

How did the clubs treat competitive soccer?

I do wonder though - should PAFC not get into HPL will they just fold-up shop? Will they stick together, try and basically force out NFS and try again in 18 months or....36 months or whatever? Will they keep moving forward trying to develop soccer?

 

[Dude]

I'd only say that I hope the clubs are doing these alliances for the right reasons and that they have learned from the mistakes of the past....

I think that is wishfull thinking.

 

[GEORDIE]

Not really the best person here to opine in the subject.
For a number of reasons, most notably my disillusionment on how clubs in my district treated competitive soccer, I have not coached and my kids have not played in any of the clubs in PAFC for a number of years.
I'd only say that I hope the clubs are doing these alliances for the right reasons and that they have learned from the mistakes of the past....

This fake new club Pacific Athletic fc [including Whalley] is formed just to get into HPL and its just " TAKING THE PISS" .

There is a summer club called Pacific Eagles who play in the USSL leage [ U7 -U13] and young players are welcome to join and play competitive footy in the summer.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I wouldn't know, only spent there the first 36 years of my life (plus going back pretty much every year since moving here) ;-)

Dude, you're partially right. You gotta realize that there are 2 realities in Brazil and all other third world countries. If you are upper middle class and up, you have access to whatever catches your fancy (I did judo, basketball, swimming, tennis, etc.). If you're not that lucky, you end up only playing with your buddies outside and what could be cheaper than getting a ball and kicking it around? So soccer, it is. The common ground between the 2 groups is that, generally, nobody plays organized competitive sports (i.e. coaches, refs, strict rules) until they are 12ish. Then, if they are good enough to make it into the youth system of a club, they specialize. This certainly happens with soccer (where almost all players picked are from lower social groups) but it also happens with every other sport there. We have strong participation in other team and individual sports (volleyball, basketball, tennis, swimming) and those athletes all but have dropped other activities once they began to compete in their chosen sport. BTW, it's really no different in Europe since, as far as I know, Rooney, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Ozil, etc. were not likely to be playing baseball in the off season when in their formative years. It is just a different mindset and the norm outside of North America is specialization once you move to the competitive side.

Now, I'm not saying this is the best for the general population but, IMHO, players who aspire to play in a higher arena (MNT, collegiate, pro level) will benefit from specializing in their early teens (and isn't this the point of having a "high performance" league, forming more and better players to those levels?). BTW, we do this in other sports already don't we? I doubt the typical potential olympic hopeful in gymnastics, figure skating, etc. have been doing much else since they were 5. And how about Agassi, Sampras and Tiger? Do you truly believe they were well rounded kids? The difference is that here we accept specialization more for individual sports than collective ones....

Those are all individual sports.........last time I checked soccer wasn't an individual sport???? That's right.....Steve Nash was a one-sport athlete.......other than winning the MVP in soccer and rugby while playing high school sports.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

How did the clubs treat competitive soccer?

Well let me put this way, my beef was always a lot more about what was not done than what was done.
I understand as well as the next guy that 90% of any club's players are not pushing to higher and higher levels and that for them recreational soccer is just fine, thank you.
However, if one chooses to run a competitive program, I feel it shouldn't be done half-heartedly and clubs should be prepared to adopt a different set of standards and policies to cater to the players in it.
IMHO, the one-size-fits-all approach is counter-productive and gets in the way of the developement of the top echelon of players.

 

[Dude]

Those are all individual sports.........last time I checked soccer wasn't an individual sport???? That's right.....Steve Nash was a one-sport athlete.......other than winning the MVP in soccer and rugby while playing high school sports.

Although I agree with you, he also used Volleyball and Basketball as examples.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

Those are all individual sports.........last time I checked soccer wasn't an individual sport????

If you reread my post, Captain, you'll see that was just my point. Here in N.Am. we accept that for individual sports but think collective sports should be treated differently.
Abroad, they are more likely than not treated the same and players do generally specialize at an early age.

There are many ways to skin a cat, my friend, and until N.Am. can back up their way of thinking with success in the global stage, sorry, I go with the majority....

 

[Captain Shamrock]

My apologies, Tulio.........I just focused on the last part. Either way, I think kids should be more well-rounded than a lot of them are nowadays.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

I don't disagree, speaking in general terms. I have a couple of old friends (more like friends of a friend, really) that went on to play at a semi-pro division 2 in Brazil and, while they'd run circles around me in the soccer pitch, if it came down to a game of basketball or whatever that was outside of what they trained to do from an early age, I'd have no problems betting on me. Heck, I can even ice skate, poorly, but I can. I know that early specialization may lead to burnout, repetitive use injuries, etc. but when it comes to high level athletes there is evidence that it MAY give them an edge.

In any case, my position re the HPL is mostly observing that a large part of the intended public, high level kids who love soccer and/or aspire to excel at the highest level, are already practicing year round and bearing comparable costs. Take me, between Roman Tulis, PTP, Select League, etc. I don't even want to add up how much more I spent than the 2.5K people are talking about . And, BTW, I'm not fooling myself that the costs will go down and that there will be a return on my money in scholarships, etc.

 

[Mr Base]

Tulio I am glad that you do see possible net results with addition of HPL. Even if it's going to fit rich kids more. I think others are also going to have a chance. As far as Maple Ridge area getting a side in . It would be nice to see. You guys have a fatastic coach in your area by the name of Jonston. He surley can help you guys. Most of the now running BC Soccer guys know him well.Mail man.
You guys need a club like HPL for onley one reason. There is tonns of kids in that area and more will come. Few good coaches and things can go long ways. Not to say that Stedin is not doing a good job. Few more like him and Ridge will be well known. Jordan is acting technical derector for Van city and Richmond club.

 

[GEORDIE]

This fake new club Pacific Athletic fc [including Whalley] is formed just to get into HPL and its just " TAKING THE PISS" .

Any indications as to who will get in or miss out in the race for HPL .

 

[bettermirror]

11 applicants. The only certainties are Victoria and Okanagan. But of course CMF and Surrey United are locks. I'd suggest Abby is a lock despite some recent issues. The only one pretty much guaranteed not to get in is Sportstown as they would be competing with both the Rich-Van bid and the South Fraser bid. Although, Sportstown would have excellent programming and coaches. (It's also a u9 program though....and HPL is u13+).