Just to let the readers know there is a new youth HPL league in the makings. From what I heard Whitcaps would have a side in, in three age groups, plus local clubs with big draw would field a side. Club like Metro Ford ,Club like Surrey FC and two or three other Clubs. One from Interior one from Victoria and upper Island. Plus two or three sides from US. In my opinion this will destroy club system and stream all this for only the one who has five or six grand to spend. Due to lats of travel coasts will be up n that range. It will also take away four or five best players from select program. Select would endup representing gold soccer. Rest would end up as a house soccer. Lets hear it from you guys what do you think of this league.
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New Youth HPL league
- Thread starter Mr Base
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italian_stallion21
Well-Known Member
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
No way!
No way!
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Re: New Youth HPL
De-skewing time...
You can expect that the Select/Metro clubs will each end up losing about 4-5 players at each age to this league, and will also dip into the Gold programs to make up their numbers. Yes, this dilutes the level at each notch below it. It will also probably end up consolidating the sub-levels in a number of the leagues (ie those that have Gold1 and Gold2 groups).
Personally I like the concept, but it's only going to be as good as the coaches who will run these teams. Basically, BCSA is going to do it anyway; it's already happened in Quebec, and is happening in other provinces too, so there is some externally-applied incentive.
My two cents...
De-skewing time...
- Whitecaps are not currently part of this. This is a BCSA initiative.
- The intent is to have 8 "franchises" with teams in 5 age groups representing different parts of the province.
- Two of the "franchises" are "reserved" for the Island and the Interior. The rest are expected to be located in the Lower Mainland.
- No plan has been released to have anyone based in the US.
- Current model is to expect the "franchises" to be district-based rather than club-based, with a preference hinted at for cooperation between multiple adjoining districts, although the RFP criteria for this have yet to be finalized and released.
- It has been strongly hinted that any individual clubs making a pitch at this would have to guarantee both fields and a "cradle to grave" club philosophy.
- As previously stated in another thread, financing is expected to be player-borne, with the expected cost to be comparable to the combination of Metro/Select and Y League player costs.
- There will be no player mobility limitations (the out-of-district concept).
- There will be a girls' league as well as a boys' league.
- Playing/training season will run from March through November.
- The HPL is being referred to as "Division One" and Selects/Metro as "Division Two" in some of the literature being circulated.
You can expect that the Select/Metro clubs will each end up losing about 4-5 players at each age to this league, and will also dip into the Gold programs to make up their numbers. Yes, this dilutes the level at each notch below it. It will also probably end up consolidating the sub-levels in a number of the leagues (ie those that have Gold1 and Gold2 groups).
Personally I like the concept, but it's only going to be as good as the coaches who will run these teams. Basically, BCSA is going to do it anyway; it's already happened in Quebec, and is happening in other provinces too, so there is some externally-applied incentive.
My two cents...
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
What do the players do in the off months? Are they eligible to play Selects?
What is the oldest age group expected to be? If they have gr 12 players start in March and play through November, aren't half of them going to disappear in September when they go away to post-secondary?
What do the players do in the off months? Are they eligible to play Selects?
What is the oldest age group expected to be? If they have gr 12 players start in March and play through November, aren't half of them going to disappear in September when they go away to post-secondary?
- Thread starter
- #6
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
Dezza these guys would play all year. The guys would not play in select program only in HPL league. If Vancouver was to put a team in they would have to call players from Richmond or West Van. Small clubs will be gone due to this. This is why I said All you guys on West side need to sit dow and talk about it fast. It looks like to me only select and HPL will be high level rest is just a house program. If they take six guys of of each gold side there is no gold.
This will force all the clubs to get together. Level of soccer would be way higher. At the same time kids in the house could spend more time on development of the skill. Club system as it sits now could no longer work. Talk is up to U21. Even kids from other Provinces could be part of this.
Dezza these guys would play all year. The guys would not play in select program only in HPL league. If Vancouver was to put a team in they would have to call players from Richmond or West Van. Small clubs will be gone due to this. This is why I said All you guys on West side need to sit dow and talk about it fast. It looks like to me only select and HPL will be high level rest is just a house program. If they take six guys of of each gold side there is no gold.
This will force all the clubs to get together. Level of soccer would be way higher. At the same time kids in the house could spend more time on development of the skill. Club system as it sits now could no longer work. Talk is up to U21. Even kids from other Provinces could be part of this.
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
lfc3: Yes, I have a copy of that prospectus too, with Barber's statement about "looking forward to supporting and helping to grow" the concept. Endorsing? Yes. Actually supporting the concept financially? Nope. As of now, there is nothing to stamp "Whitecaps" on this program, other than their being able to cherry pick the top prospects from it. Agreed, this doesn't meant that they won't buy in eventually; they just aren't there now.
dezza: the players are still eligible to play at the Selects/Metro level; the issue is sorting out how the out-of-district rule applies at one level but not at the top. Like Mr Base says, most of these kids will be expecting to stay in the HPL program all year but could still help their clubs if available - the system hasn't been fleshed out yet. The oldest group currently is U18.
lfc3: Yes, I have a copy of that prospectus too, with Barber's statement about "looking forward to supporting and helping to grow" the concept. Endorsing? Yes. Actually supporting the concept financially? Nope. As of now, there is nothing to stamp "Whitecaps" on this program, other than their being able to cherry pick the top prospects from it. Agreed, this doesn't meant that they won't buy in eventually; they just aren't there now.
dezza: the players are still eligible to play at the Selects/Metro level; the issue is sorting out how the out-of-district rule applies at one level but not at the top. Like Mr Base says, most of these kids will be expecting to stay in the HPL program all year but could still help their clubs if available - the system hasn't been fleshed out yet. The oldest group currently is U18.
- Thread starter
- #8
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
Thanks Trace well said. If you call the league HPL than the rule out of district is gone. Or you will be able to select from three or four clubs to make a side. That is the only way forward. For a strong club sytem. Best players will come out. It the league goes than University and clubs across the line will only select kids from HPL. In My opinion a Provintial team should be in the same league. That way those boys get the best practices possible.Also in my opinion Whitecaps should not have nothing to do with running of the league. It is a Pro Club and only players that want to play for them are their property. If other kids become part of them in a long run they will get hurt due to control. As a parent I would never let my child be controled by any pro side unless they make the first team. University is the main avenue for most of these players. Trace what is your opinion on this.
Thanks Trace well said. If you call the league HPL than the rule out of district is gone. Or you will be able to select from three or four clubs to make a side. That is the only way forward. For a strong club sytem. Best players will come out. It the league goes than University and clubs across the line will only select kids from HPL. In My opinion a Provintial team should be in the same league. That way those boys get the best practices possible.Also in my opinion Whitecaps should not have nothing to do with running of the league. It is a Pro Club and only players that want to play for them are their property. If other kids become part of them in a long run they will get hurt due to control. As a parent I would never let my child be controled by any pro side unless they make the first team. University is the main avenue for most of these players. Trace what is your opinion on this.
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
BCSA and Whitecaps found another way to grab money from parents and players. HPS is nothing but a money grab.
Why change the current system and organization? The only thing that could be changed is the calendar. New calendar should be March to October and ridiculous out-of-district rule should be gone and that is it! Limit the number of select teams to the number of the current districts and there you go - you have "HPL" that does not cost more than the current select league! But, no, why do it simple when the "trust of brains" at BCSA can charge an arm and a leg for calling the league differently. It is appaling that anyone could think positively about HPL.
The simple calendar change would put BC on the same schedule with the most of other provinces in Canada. That could have been the first step toward a some kind of semi-pro Canadian league.
Whitecaps should keep their hands out of youth competitions. If they are not going to invest some money into youth competitions they should not be allowed to get in any kind of organization. They should run their MLS team and eventually Residency program and that is it.
Why change the current system and organization? The only thing that could be changed is the calendar. New calendar should be March to October and ridiculous out-of-district rule should be gone and that is it! Limit the number of select teams to the number of the current districts and there you go - you have "HPL" that does not cost more than the current select league! But, no, why do it simple when the "trust of brains" at BCSA can charge an arm and a leg for calling the league differently. It is appaling that anyone could think positively about HPL.
The simple calendar change would put BC on the same schedule with the most of other provinces in Canada. That could have been the first step toward a some kind of semi-pro Canadian league.
Whitecaps should keep their hands out of youth competitions. If they are not going to invest some money into youth competitions they should not be allowed to get in any kind of organization. They should run their MLS team and eventually Residency program and that is it.
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
RL RCD: right now we have a lot more districts than either Selects/Metro or the proposed number of HPL clubs. Not all districts are able to compete at this level, partially because not all have enough of a population base (eg those in the interior) to have enough players to be able to put together teams. That's one of the reasons why the out-of-district rule is going out the window for the HPL. The travel and operating budgets for these clubs will still be onerous; that's why it's out of the reach of nearly all the clubs in the province, and BCSA is looking at this on a basis of co-operating districts as being the buy-in level. I still think the concept is a good one, and eventually a necessary one, but this thing needs $ub$tantial $pon$or$hip to be viable.
I don't really have an opinion on the Whitecaps being better or worse at development for kids; the $64 question here is really going to be whose goals end up being the primary ones - the Whitecaps' or the Provincial/National team's? We're already contributing to the 2nd option with our registration fees, but at some point we will have to decide if we want the development system to stay community-based or if we go club-based like the rest of the football-playing world outside North America.
RL RCD: right now we have a lot more districts than either Selects/Metro or the proposed number of HPL clubs. Not all districts are able to compete at this level, partially because not all have enough of a population base (eg those in the interior) to have enough players to be able to put together teams. That's one of the reasons why the out-of-district rule is going out the window for the HPL. The travel and operating budgets for these clubs will still be onerous; that's why it's out of the reach of nearly all the clubs in the province, and BCSA is looking at this on a basis of co-operating districts as being the buy-in level. I still think the concept is a good one, and eventually a necessary one, but this thing needs $ub$tantial $pon$or$hip to be viable.
I don't really have an opinion on the Whitecaps being better or worse at development for kids; the $64 question here is really going to be whose goals end up being the primary ones - the Whitecaps' or the Provincial/National team's? We're already contributing to the 2nd option with our registration fees, but at some point we will have to decide if we want the development system to stay community-based or if we go club-based like the rest of the football-playing world outside North America.
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
Will anybody be ready for Qatar?
Will anybody be ready for Qatar?
Re: Neww Youth HPL league
13: just wondering what your opinion is on age groupings, given that the new league does not cross calendar years. E.g. , does a kid play U13 or U14 in the year that s/he turns 13?
Btw, read a little people! Base goes off half-cocked with almost nothing right. A quick scan of the proposal summary would have clarified things for you. I mean, I know this is TTP but still!
13: just wondering what your opinion is on age groupings, given that the new league does not cross calendar years. E.g. , does a kid play U13 or U14 in the year that s/he turns 13?
Btw, read a little people! Base goes off half-cocked with almost nothing right. A quick scan of the proposal summary would have clarified things for you. I mean, I know this is TTP but still!
Again, the question is: Why start a new league (HPL) when only a calendar and out-of-district rule can be changed?
There is already a solid league in place (metro/selects) which recently costs quite a lot (Vancouver and North Shore were charging their metro/select players $100-150 per month so they could be coached by Jason Jordan and Martin Nash; some other clubs significantly raised their fees as of this year).
This new HPL is nothing but a money grab.
There is already a solid league in place (metro/selects) which recently costs quite a lot (Vancouver and North Shore were charging their metro/select players $100-150 per month so they could be coached by Jason Jordan and Martin Nash; some other clubs significantly raised their fees as of this year).
This new HPL is nothing but a money grab.
- Thread starter
- #15
RL I think they are trying to bring the level up in orther for Caps youth and other players to develop in a higher level league. Any time you take best four kids from each Metro side and put them on one side it will end up as an all star side. That would also get Whitecaps kids in the same group. Than rest of the coaches could see where they stand. You would see kids from Alberta and Saskatchawan come play here. As I said intent is good as long as Whitcaps are not running the league. By adding American sides it can only bring the level up. It would also bring in Kolowna, Kemloops,Penticton in to the same development. League is going to coast alot but some people do not care. All they want is to see the youngsters move up to upper level. I strongly support curent system, I would only change one thing. Gold and select to play in the summer across the province. Silver level and Bronze play in the fall league.
Select and gold could play indoor league in the winter. HPL is a good thing for development of soccer in BC. I think Charley is on the right track. I am not sure where it will end up. Does anybody know if Delta is supporting HPL or not?
Select and gold could play indoor league in the winter. HPL is a good thing for development of soccer in BC. I think Charley is on the right track. I am not sure where it will end up. Does anybody know if Delta is supporting HPL or not?
Mr. Base,
I understand what you are talking about but let me say this. Whitecaps (further WFC) have no clue what they are doing and they should keep their hands off youth competitions.
Change the calendar, throw away out-of-district rule, eventually add a team from Kelowna into Lower Mainland metro/select league and there you go, you have “HPL” that will cost the same as current metro/select league. No need to charge ridiculous amount of money for a “soccer development” that is geared toward Whitecaps only and WFC never invested a single dollar into youth soccer in Lower Mainland.
Last few years, this province had two national champions at U-16 and U-18 (Surrey Utd. and Metro Ford) – both 1992 generations. Vancouver had a chance to win the same with 1990 and 1991 generations but the problem they faced was that a few of their best players were not released by Universities/Colleges for Nationals.
Why did I list this? Three different clubs managed to win Nationals or be very close last few years. All these teams came from Lower Mainland’s metro/select league. Throughout the years there were always 4-5 very strong teams in every metro/select league. All I am asking is: What else do we need? We already have “HPL” if only the calendar gets changed!!! Even if out-of-district rule stays (as it has been in effect for years and years) that metro/select league will still be and is “HPL”.
That is why I am saying that this HPL initiative is only meant to further and deeper put the fingers into parents’ pockets and charge even more for not-so-good “professional” coaching that BCSA or Whitecaps are trying to sell.
In all honesty, I will be shocked if the clubs allow BCSA and Whitecaps to ruin quite well organized metro/select league and start a new league that will most likely be out of reach for numerous people. So, if all the best players are not playing in HPL (cannot afford it, for example) then what the heck are we talking about here? We will have watered down HPL and watered down metro/select league. Does not make sense at all!
I understand what you are talking about but let me say this. Whitecaps (further WFC) have no clue what they are doing and they should keep their hands off youth competitions.
Change the calendar, throw away out-of-district rule, eventually add a team from Kelowna into Lower Mainland metro/select league and there you go, you have “HPL” that will cost the same as current metro/select league. No need to charge ridiculous amount of money for a “soccer development” that is geared toward Whitecaps only and WFC never invested a single dollar into youth soccer in Lower Mainland.
Last few years, this province had two national champions at U-16 and U-18 (Surrey Utd. and Metro Ford) – both 1992 generations. Vancouver had a chance to win the same with 1990 and 1991 generations but the problem they faced was that a few of their best players were not released by Universities/Colleges for Nationals.
Why did I list this? Three different clubs managed to win Nationals or be very close last few years. All these teams came from Lower Mainland’s metro/select league. Throughout the years there were always 4-5 very strong teams in every metro/select league. All I am asking is: What else do we need? We already have “HPL” if only the calendar gets changed!!! Even if out-of-district rule stays (as it has been in effect for years and years) that metro/select league will still be and is “HPL”.
That is why I am saying that this HPL initiative is only meant to further and deeper put the fingers into parents’ pockets and charge even more for not-so-good “professional” coaching that BCSA or Whitecaps are trying to sell.
In all honesty, I will be shocked if the clubs allow BCSA and Whitecaps to ruin quite well organized metro/select league and start a new league that will most likely be out of reach for numerous people. So, if all the best players are not playing in HPL (cannot afford it, for example) then what the heck are we talking about here? We will have watered down HPL and watered down metro/select league. Does not make sense at all!
What is this "ridiculous amount" of money you are referring to? Currently Vancouver Metro players pay $1300 to play. If they were then to play Y-league (as many though not all do) they would incur an additional $1000+ in addition to travel costs. HPL isn't going to cost them any more than that as stated in their summary. And the winning team doesn't have to travel to Florida!
Do you just make stuff up? The prospects programs is oh yea FREE to the participants as will be the academy teams.
So? Apart from not being an excessively impressive record, are you saying that there is no room for improvement?
Metro is not HPL. Any club can choose to have a Metro team. That is not selective. And the studies have shown along with models elsewhere that the elite have to play with and against the elite to progress. I have seen some of the Metro teams in the Lower Mainland. Some are at best Gold 2 teams. Its time we stopped catering solely to the community-minded sports family and created a true elite level where competition and not geographic boundaries will win the day. The community soccer movement is important but for different reasons. There is a decent infrastructure in place to serve that market ans whether you recogniuze it or not, Metro and Selects are a part of it. It is time to be a little less canadian about all of this and separate the wheat from the chaff. User pay? For now. And necessary to retain professional coaching services. Many have been paying for years - it will not be a surprise. We are a socialist country, but we cannot give everyone a free ride - or is that what you are expecting? Once the successes come, so will the sponsorship dollars that trece verde says the HPL will need. Its time we took our head out of the sand.
Other than this statement, you're pretty close to hitting the nail on the head.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. As noted, I don't see a provision for Grade 12s, they will be done in November. If the tier 2 league keeps the winter schedule then there will have to be provision for mid-season transfers up and down. As well as the cost, it will be interesting to see how many players want to play for 10 months of the year beyond the real keen ones, especially if the Whitecaps cream off these players from the lower mainland. It could really strenthen the Gold leagues though.......
"WFC never invested a single dollar into youth soccer in Lower Mainland"
"Do you just make stuff up? The prospects programs is oh yea FREE to the participants as will be the academy teams. "
There is a big difference between youth soccer I am talking about and the Residency Program that WFC run. The prospects program was not free; ask any parent who had a kid playing prospects. The Residency Program is free of charge for participants. And, by the way, what are the accomplishments so far of the Residency Program?
"Do you just make stuff up? The prospects programs is oh yea FREE to the participants as will be the academy teams. "
There is a big difference between youth soccer I am talking about and the Residency Program that WFC run. The prospects program was not free; ask any parent who had a kid playing prospects. The Residency Program is free of charge for participants. And, by the way, what are the accomplishments so far of the Residency Program?
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