New teams, possible changes, and probable improvements to the premier div next season

[crafty cokcney]

Fukcing laughable

If you Metro guys think you are so much better than the Valley guys, you are sadly mistaken. This holier than thou crap is a fukcing joke. Trust me, you guys aren't that good. Don't kid yourselves that the VMSL is the greatest thing since slice bread, because it isn't. I've seen VMSL premier games this season that have been a total farce. You guys might want to put this into perspective, the overall standard of football in the lower mainland isn't that good and for you lot to start bad mouthing one league over another, it is laughable. Where you guys get off slaging the top teams in the Valley is amazing.

Give your fukcing head a shake.


Cheers

 

[knvb]

Give your head a good shake.

Where you guys get off slaging the top teams in the Valley

I really am not looking to start anything here, BUT we (the VMSL) slap the piss out of you (the FVSL) every year come provincial time. It's true. Your top 4 vs. our top 8 and you haven't won a match since 98/99 when Surrey U made it to the finals. I'm not even going to remind you where that team ended up after that. Before and after that year, sweet F A. Look at last year for example I think the aggregate of the valley vs. the VMSL in the first round was 18 - 2.

I don't know what games you are watching, but perhaps you should take a video of one of your games. It's shoc-ingly obvious on most nights the difference in play. Note: I said play not players.

 

[cerebral smallsy]

Can you imagine if they took the top 3 teams from the fraservalley soccer league and put them in the metro league and they actually won a game? What would the vancouver guys do...

we would send our condolences to the point grey strikers (and the one other vmsl team they actually tied).

Vancouver Metro League - Division 2C

Team GP W T L GF GA PTS
1 Cliff Avenue United 17 16 1 0 89 20 49
2 Elephant Walk A 17 12 1 4 52 23 37
3 North Shore Primos 17 10 4 3 47 26 34
4 City FC Blaze "A" 16 10 3 3 50 20 33
5 North Shore JB's 18 6 3 9 27 37 21
6 Richmond Cougars 16 5 4 7 27 36 19
7 West Van Royals 16 5 2 9 19 34 17
8 Westside C-Men 17 5 2 10 21 48 17
9 Champlain Heights 17 4 1 12 27 54 13
10 Point Grey Strikers B 17 0 1 16 13 74 1

 

[Regs]

Cainy,

but give it a rest already Regs

Why not get into a serious discussion and give me something to debate with?

A couple of posts have tossed around the idea of amalgamating the two leagues... I'm asking why the VMSL should even consider it? Answer my question on how it would make for a stronger Premier by doing so.

So far, all I've read here is about the benefits for you guys in a merger. Put yourselves in the VMSL's shoes... list the benefits now.

I don't see them.

Come on man we won the Valley four years on the trot, went undefeated,one year, and lost in the B.C final in overtime to the Firemen. As a matter of fact I think we played Metro Ford in the B.Cs three times and always beat them

And so you get into the VMSL Premier division after that and you barely survive that first year.

You may go out in the first round again this year

Or we might win the whole thing. Again.

~Regs.

 

[Aves]

Re: VMSL vs FVSL

Originally posted by Reccos
I don't always agree with decisions of the VMSL exec but respect the fact these guys do a lot of work for little reward and a lot of shite. Just sit in the VMSL office for an hour and listen to the stupidity of some of the people running teams. It is an eye opener. I am sure that the guys runnning the FVSL are no different as they are mostly doing this for the love of the game.

Improvements take persistence and patience...there is no easy fix that can be said here on ttp.
Important issues could be raised at the agm and interested parties can lobby others to support their ideas to see if they have merit.
In the end, reasonable discourse and debate is the answer to steer things in the right direction. If you care that much, then get involved in a constructive way.
Merging the two leagues is a moot point...the vmsl doesn't want or need it...and the fvsl club teams should use the vmsl slags as motivation to do better...although one has to wonder about the schoolyard bully/snob who gets a rush out of insulting those, shall we say, ...less well off.

 

[Regs]

CC,

If you Metro guys think you are so much better than the Valley guys, you are sadly mistaken. This holier than thou crap is a fukcing joke. Trust me, you guys aren't that good.

What the fcuk is your problem? I'm asking for you to tell me the reasons why the VMSL should consider a merge.

I'm saying that it doesn't really make sense from a VMSL point of view.

Don't kid yourselves that the VMSL is the greatest thing since slice bread, because it isn't

No shite sherlock but when compared to your wonderful league's fcuk-ups this year, it's looking pretty much like 100% whole wheat, isn't it?

~Regs.

 

[Skip]

Originally posted by Jinky
Talk about damned by faint praise.

Come in conquering or dont come at all!

Offer a reserved, realistic response.....and we get ridiculed about how we lack confidence. Come in boasting about how FVSL sides might have a chance at competing, and we get reminders of previous years' results. It's obvious that this is a "no win" situation for any of us.

 

[knvb]

Are you going to be OK?

 

[CDK]

Re: Give your head a good shake.

Originally posted by knvb
Look at last year for example I think the aggregate of the valley vs. the VMSL in the first round was 18 - 2.

That's a misleading statement, Knvb, since Croatia scored 7 or 8 of those goals against a very shell shocked North Delta team...

 

[Regs]

Off Topic TTP

Actually, it's very misleading...

So to put this debate to bed once and for all, the Valley was out scored 20 to 3 in Provincial cup play this year. The only team to get out of the first round was Peace Arch and they only had to beat another valley team. Then subsequently got thumped 6-0 by Surrey U.

That's a total of 3 goals for and 26 against last year for the FVSL. From a purely piss-taking viewpoint, it's definitely a "no win" situation for the VMSLers this year. How the fcuk could you FVSLers do any worse?

CC,

You are the coach of that Delta team, are you not? I apologise for my earlier comments. I'd be bitter too

~RegswhoisholierthanCC.

 

[Dude]

Regs,

I’m of the opinion that if the two leagues were to merge, it would be the best for soccer in the mainland. It would create a stronger overall league.

I personally only see two FVSL teams being worthy of being included in a ten team premier league: PAU and ???? (GEU? Poco? Delta?)

On the lower divisions, I say two sides of ten teams each division down, until you fill in all the teams…even if it takes seven or eight divisions. Promote one team per 1st division side each year, while demoting two Premier teams every year. Lower down, 2 go up, and 2 go down every year.

The two sides per division could be set up geographically, to keep travel reasonable.

If you build a model this way, you accomplish three key benefits that cannot currently be achieved with the current set-up of two separate leagues:
1. All of the Mainland’s best players will be playing under one league.
2. The Premier league will be much stronger…stronger teams in the 1st division battling for promotion ensures the top flight teams make themselves as strong as possible to stay up.
3. Better geographical representation. Players will be more inclined to play close to home.

This doesn’t guarantee that the first year both FVSL teams wouldn’t be relegated, but over time, you would certainly see better representation of all the areas. You would surely see 3 Surrey based teams in a top flight, in addition to possibly a Delta squad. A FIRM promotion / relegation policy would ensure the most deserving teams play in the highest divisions.

This sort of model would bring the level of soccer UP in the mainland, not down. It would add more legitimacy to premier soccer in these areas. It would certainly make the Premier league the strongest contender for the National championship every year, too.

There you go- my 8 bits.

 

[Sandman]

I notice no one is suggesting the top VMSL comes over and amalgamates with the FVSL........I wonder why? That alone speaks volumes.

Generally speaking from a lower mainland point of view, the best soccer, and the best players play in the VMSL. I ask this seriously, but how many FVSL players play with the whitecaps? I am not saying the Whitecaps are the holy grail, but there is a slight statement made on where their talent is coming from.

Sure there is the odd good footballer in the valley but the bread and butter is in the VMSL.

More importantly, this so called "amalgamation" or "have the top Valley teams move to the Vmsl" HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. I would argue that was the start of the decline in the quality of play in the Premier Division. If I remember correctly, Surrey Utd and Surrey FC were fighting for relegation all year.

Subsequently, to their credit Surrey Utd has done very well, and I see them as the team that supports/represents the Valley and they do a good job of it......let's leave it at that. Throwing more Valley teams in the mix WILL NOT improve the declining level of play in the VMSL.

"IF"..............the valley teams have to come to the VMSL then have a couple of them start in Div 1.........that's where their level of soccer probably is. I would suggest it would be a struggle for them to be promoted. Especially this past year with the likes of Clan, Firemen, RUFC, Sikh Temple, Deep Cove. etc and if there are four teams dropped for the Premier next year then it would even be harder.

Earn your way to the promise land

Sandman

 

[Dude]

Sandman, you're missing the point entirely. We're talking about where the players were developed...and you can't argue that even the Whitecaps have had their fair share of Fraser Valley developed players. Look at where many of the better players grew up playing...in the valley.

Yes, those players pretty much always choose to play in the VMSL...that isn't disputed.

If you look at all my points logically, it makes sense. We're not talking about the FVSL joining the VMSL...we're talking about amalgamation. Entirely different. Given the time to allow the promotion / demotion system to run it's natural course, you can't argue that you'd find more players playing close to home, rather than, say, traveling from Surrey out to North Van 3 times per week.

 

[Ssweeper]

Valley boy's 2 cents worth

Regs I think you are right.
It would not strengthen Metro today, maybe not even tomorrow.
Pray tell why did you let Slurrey U in at all. They struggled.
Should have tossed them out right away. OOps. Did they do better after that.
We all know how Marty works his magic.
An aside.
Hey"Not good hluecka"-I'm much better Hleucking-
I hope you invest in a good parachute because when Marty pushes you off the plane it will be a long way down and I personally hope that no valley team will stoop to pick you up.
I do laugh at a lot of your posts-especially the spelling.See you are a valley boy after all. However your snide comments are exactly that. No amount of drinking with the boys watching crap footi in the valley should make up for your poo.
PS if Marty hangs your shirt from rafters don't get too smug- not that it will happen

I personally think it will be a mistake to merge.
FVSL appears to have quite a few problems and jumping ship is not the answer. Change is the answer.
What and who? Don't ask me. I have trouble extracting the straw from between my last two teeth.

My pater told me that once the Fraser Valley used to have some good teams. I think the old old White Rock side made up of local straw suckers could kick a ball. Langley apparently was quite good once they cleaned the cow dung from their boots.
Things have changed since then. Immigration for one.
As a valley boy I must confess I don't watch VM footi and have no idea who any of the players are etc. but correct if my perception is wrong. Other than the teams that rigorously scout all teams, a la Slurrey U, are a lot of the other teams ethnic based. If these teams get the best of their bretheren surely it makes sense that these teams should be better than the FV teams who congregate due to other forms of allegiance. In breeding does have its side effects though.
My point . I'm not sure I have one but if I do it would be stop slagging the FV. It is beyond piss taking. A bit of banter is one thing but some of this poo is poo.
THe FV will get it's act together and once the FV boys who strive for greatness realize that it is all a pipe dream to most they will come home. They all do anyway it the timing that's the problem.
Got to go. The cows need milking and the sheep need a good fukc.

 

[knvb]

Who are you.

Great, another SU casualty who can't let it go so he takes it out on me. Like there isn't enough of those out there already.

Nice lisp. Putz.

"IF"..............the valley teams have to come to the VMSL then have a couple of them start in Div 1.........that's where their level of soccer probably is. I would suggest it would be a struggle for them to be promoted. Especially this past year with the likes of Clan, Firemen, RUFC, Sikh Temple, Deep Cove. etc and if there are four teams dropped for the Premier next year then it would even be harder.

Earn your way to the promise land

Sandman, there is great idea and a point I think missed in everyone's amalgamation idea's. (that will NEVER happen) No one else gets a direct spot to the VMSL Prem. (us and SFC excluded ) Why not try and earn it?

 

[Bollocks]

Grass looks Greener

Reccos,

I agree with you. There isn't such a thing as real promotion/relegation in the Valley. The Pakenham Cup undergoes a format change each year and it's unknown how many teams are going to be in Premier each year. Even more confusing is the Cat system.

For those so pissed they want to move to the VMSL, this is clearly a case of the grass looking greener on the other side.

In SFC Peg's case, we already have a bunch of surrey boys on the VMSL Peg squad who concur that the grass IS greener. They have been submitted to ZERO politics. And the question still remains if the fvsl are pulling in McDonald's wages or retirement wages with the honarariums. It sounds as if checks and balances are in place in the vmsl.

Cainy's analogy about the US/Cdn college hockey system is a good one. However, unless amalgamation happens, the better footie is in the vmsl and will stay there for some time to come.


Bollocks

 

[Ssweeper]

Who am I?

"Great, another SU casualty who can't let it go so he takes it out on me. Like there isn't enough of those out there already."


Enough said. A sad indictment of all that it SU.
I can see the reunions in the future. Only one person for sure definitely not invited, and I don't mean you.


If you stand in the firing line expect the odd bullet.

 

[girth]

Not gonna happen

Question why would we want to join forces with guys like this all they can do is tell us how poorly we play the game? As kids we used to play against eveybody and do just fine and enjoy it but obviously times have changed,personalities have changed also and the metro boys like to do there own thing.Just curious what you guys would say if the gorge wanted to play in your little fantasy league what would you say? oops sorry guys touchy subject.

 

[knvb]

Girth, most would probably welcome a shot a beating the the Champs. I'm not sure where you were going with that one.

Ssweeper, I didn't fcuk you over. I would if you asked nice though. Take shots at my posts and there content if you like, but try not to do it on something I had absolutely nothing to do with. That said, you're a cnut. Fcuk off.

 

[Dude]

I agree with you. There isn't such a thing as real promotion/relegation in the Valley. The Pakenham Cup undergoes a format change each year and it's unknown how many teams are going to be in Premier each year. Even more confusing is the Cat system.

That paragraph completely sums up my frustration with the league, too.

On a personal note, there's no way I want to play in Vancouver again. Unless you're playing premier, you're subjected to sub-par facilities, and the officiating- in my opinion- is worse. No matter what anyone says about the FVSL discipline / fine system, it has definitely helped curb the violence that used to plague the league. Again, if you looked at huge number of players that would show up on the suspended list a few years ago, as compared to now, the difference is huge. There have been questions as to where to money is going- legit inquires…but I support the fine system. I would even venture to say that they are bringing in less total revenue now than three years ago. Yes, the fines have increased, but the cases have dropped considerably. Longer suspensions also means repeat offenders don’t get back on the pitch in two games to re-offend.

The Kangaroo court is an entirely different matter. You’re basically guilty until proven guilty. They say players are required to show, to tell their case…but when a player’s case has already been decided before showing, what’s the point? Basically, if you show, you get x number of games…if you don’t show, you get x+2. What’s the point, really?

I remember the VMSL as being racially very tense. Lots of brawls and near brawls. That was between 1996-1998…but from what I’ve read, not much has changed. I also remember having to do a field sweep of Strathcona and other parks (Livingston for training) before warm up, to make sure all the needles were off the field. No, this isn’t a piss take. Be sure to check the potholes…they have a way of hiding in there (that was a piss-take).

What is really frustrating with the FVSL is that a lot of the problems would be easily fixed. Set the league up, establish FIRM regulations on promotion, relegation, and Cat. Every Premier team should be 100% required to field a Cat team. If the team has difficulty fielding one, the league should step in to help make the marriage happen- otherwise, give up the spot. My bet is, if teams like SFC, GN, and Delta were given the ultimatum at the beginning of the summer, they would have found a way to make it happen. But can you blame the teams? No requirement, so why bother with the extra organizational work required to field the Cat team? Can’t blame the clubs, really.

Short term solution: elect an ass kicker to the board whom will hold their feet to the fire, and earn the honorarium.