MWSL Results 2001/2002/2003

[Fat Bastard]

Norvan woes

What the fcuk is wrong with Norvan? This team showed so much promise last year. And on paper at least, they have a roster that should at the very least be competitive with the big three.

Is it commitment, or lack therof? Poor coaching? Distractions and lack of focus? They got hammered by Poco before the break as the players partied the night before. They drew Burnaby Pansies earlier, again after a hard day's night. Their suspended coach is throwing water bottles at referees (haven't heard if anything has come of that).

Last year this team was a shining light, the model for new premier teams. This year they look like a bottom three finisher. Amazing the difference one summer can make!

I'd like to see them turn things around, it's good for the league ... but not until after this Sunday!

 

[Cartdriver]

MWSL changes....

Hey FB, what do you think of the MWSL's changes to premier and div 1 for next year? I thought it was a good idea at first to bump some of the top competitive div 1 teams into a group with the lower few premier teams from this year....I can see that being a decent and competitive group. But now I hear through the gravevine that even high div 2 teams in the standings are being offered spots in Prem B so that the league has a full group to start with. Not sure if this is the way to go

Not sure how the PLAYERS will feel on the top A teams about playing other teams maybe 3 times and not much variety from others? Example: if the league only goes with 6 in A (which is their minimum proposed), UBC would play Canadians maybe 3 times or more during the year and perhaps once every 5 games. Is this better than playing more teams of lesser calibre and winning 7-0?? I dunno....just curious

Also, does anyone know how Sportstown is doing with their younger girls? Not talking standings either, but player development. I heard the CSA's mandate was to get some of the younger girls they identified playing at the highest level for their development.....and I know UBC had a couple of U16 or U17 girls on their roster. Now that the college girls are back, are these young kids warming the bench or actually DEVELOPING on the field???

CDcuriousthisAMabouttheMWSL

 

[Fat Bastard]

If the MWSL goes with six teams in Premier A it will be better. I think the top teams are looking for competitive games, so if that means UBC plays Surrey three times, then so be it. The bottom line is that it is a fact of life in women's soccer... there is (a) not enough good players, and/or (b) not enough people who know how to build strong teams (or at least willing to put the ego aside now and then).

As for the Div.2 thing happening, yeah it's true. It's because of two reasons: (1) some of the top div.1 teams don't want to go - "because they don't want that commitment" (translation: "we like winning"), and (2) some of the D2 teams think they can play at that level.

The rumour is that not only will the SBAA Strikers willingly go up as Div.1A winners, but the SBAA Kaizen (Div.2 winners) will also go up. That means SBAA will have three premier teams. One of the MWSL board members, who also coaches for SBAA, told me I was nuts when Burnaby put in a second team. So, SBAA must be certifiable. Frankly, three teams is absurd. By doing that, you are watering down at least two, if not all, of the teams.

We'd like to see our "B" team go to the B-side, for developmental purposes. Because there will be no league interlock, A teams with affiliates in B can bring players up for games. That was our intential all along last summer, until the MWSL nixed the CAT-style plan.

Actually, the lack of an interlock is a mistake (aside from the fact it will allow some player movement within a club). It means that Premier B is nothing more than Division One. I realize the league had to compromise to appease the D1 teams, but it's not going to help those teams develop. And the MWSL will allow teams to opt out of Cup competitions, where there will be interlock, assuring some of these teams they'll never play one of the top teams. Long-term that will be a mistake. And what will the league do when the Premier B winner says they don't want to go to Premier A the following season? That will be the litmus test.

On a positive note. It will mean sixteen (or 14) "A" registered teams. Meaning the BCSA will either (a) give the MWSL a higher proportion of the eight Province Cup spots - currently we get 5 of 8; or (b), more likely, expand the Province Cup to sixteen teams, which means more MWSL teams will qualify, possibly as many as 12.

We'll see. I am not sure how this is going to work. I still think that the Premier Division should be operated as a separate league, with an "elite division" and a "development or U23 division." The MWSL has become far too recreational in mindset (understandable given that well over 90% of the teams are "rec").


Sorry for the long-winded reply. Been a long break!

 

[Fat Bastard]

UBC

UBC has added some younger players. Brittany Timko played the first half against the Burnaby Pansies on Sunday (although at left mid - won't make Even happy!). Devon Wharf played ninety in goal, while Sian Bagshawe patrolled the left-side midfield for the second half. They do have Heather Smith too. And Naomi Eguchi.

They still rely heavily on their vets, like Andrea Neil (who played 90), Liz Connor, Sandi Potis (great player ... doesn't get enough credit), Sophie Spillborghs, Roxanne Chow. They still have Tammy Crawford on their roster, and if past history is any indication, they'll save room on their 20-player roster for Silvana Burtini and Christine Sinclair (which they did last year, although neither played against Burnaby in Cup quarter-final).

Bringing youth in is necessary, otherwise these top teams will go the way of the Surrey Marlins and Coquitlam Strikers.

UBC has gone for the high-impact players. But these tend to be short-term fixes. Timko is a one year player, as she will go off to school in the US (Nebraska?) next year. Eguchi's heading back to Japan for at least a year after this semester (meaning she could be gone for Provincials anyhow). Of course, if you can sign two or three of these type of high-profile players every year, even short term, it still works in your favour.

We (Burnaby) have tried to sign local youngsters in Burnaby: players such as Jen Craig, Anna Hilborn, Lyndsay Sadgrove, Sofia Hidalgo, Daniela Rakic, to name a few. They may not be the "name players", but hopefully (fingers crossed) they'll help our club for many years to come.

Surrey's does bring in youth players - Melissa Amado has played a few games for them, as has GK Carly Carson, and their club has a developing youth program (highly valuable tool). But Surrey's approach is win now - like the Red Wings or Manchester United. They seem to go after proven Premier players to fill any gaps in what is already likely the league's most talented roster. Examples: Nicci Wright last year, Wendy Hawthorne this year.

Who has the best plan probably won't be known for a few years yet, when we'll see if Surrey, UBC and Burnaby continue to be the top teams. Hopefully, all three will be successful, and the other teams will catch up too. That would be great for local women's soccer.

 

[Regs]

We (Burnaby) have tried to sign local youngsters in Burnaby: players such as Jen Craig

Sounds like a "name" player to me, possibly a very big one at one time at that

~Regs.

 

[Jinky]

Devon Wharf played ninety in goal

It must inspire the opposition when they look at the UBC team sheet and see that the keeper's name is D.Wharf.

 

[SC]

key words for the "Canadians"...

Originally posted by Jinky


team sheet.

Good one too Regsi

+SChopingtotakeinafewladiesgamessoon

 

[Cartdriver]

Good insight....

Good stuff FB......

On the younger player issues, I was thinking more of the two U16 kids that left their youth metro team for UBC because the CSA said it was better for their development if they wanted a shot at the National team down the road. Curious if they are "developing" as I have spoken with their former metro coach a few times? (Sorry, don't know their names)

The A & B plan does have it's pros and cons.....I see value in the top teams playing only the other top teams in an A group as this will lead to teams fielding their best lineup possible (no Bagshawe playing let mid!) and thus better games, but I do worry (as you did in your post) that the B group will be little more than a re-vamped div 1 group with teams not interested in going higher, playing the A teams, or developing their players. If it gets watered down with div 2 and average div 1 teams, it will be little more than a group with very little "development" as it's purpose.


CDnotmeaningtoputdowndiv2ordiv1butwhenyoucallitpremieritshouldbebetter

 

[lionheart]

A & B

I agree with CD,
As a premier player right now, I am discouraged at the idea of premier A and B. First of all, the difference in caliber from our premier teams to the div. 1 teams is huge. So why would you want to make a division joining them. If you talk to the better div. 1 teams they would say that they didn't want to play premier because they didn't want to get their buts kicked every game and they want to play for fun, not so competitively. Well your now making a premier B division that is going to be exactly that. Your going to have once again, the 3 stronger teams wiping out the 5 or 6 weaker teams. I understand that the league wants to see womens soccer skill increase and improve the caliber. However if you've ever played womens soccer you would know that their are the girls who are competitive and play all out and then the girls who just want to play for fun and not train too hard. This league is not going to enspire those girls, but rather discourage them from playing because they are losing every week. The premier league we have right now are the girls who actually want to play at the competitive level. Taking some of those girls out and moving them to a weaker league is only going to discourage them aswell.
I hope I have made some sense in this. Really what I'm saying is that I don't agree with the A & B, however I know the premier league is lacking right now.
I also have a question to put out their to the teams, how big are teams rosters right now going into the end stretch of the league? From my view I think their pretty big (girls joining after college and university). Perhaps we need to start making more teams out of the girls we have for next year. Any thoughts???

 

[Fat Bastard]

premier problems

As for the question about rosters... Premier rosters are currently limited to 20. This was done a few years ago to prevent top teams from signing 25-30 players, which was happening. 20 is a reasonable number, and given the relatively early transfer deadline (keeping in mind that teams prepare not only for BC's in the spring but also for nats in the fall) 20 can even be a bit low should you run into serious injuries (or pregancies).

I am not sure what the solution to the premier problem is. I was on the MWSL board for four years and it essentially was my main focus. I couldn't come up with any palatable solutions.

The current thinking is to water down premier by adding more teams, with or without the interlock. The theory is that premier will be more palatable to the bottom teams because there will be more of them. While I must admit I was a proponent of this theory at one time, I now see it as flawed.

I think that the current talent pool is only deep enough to stock six competitive teams. I stand behind my earlier statement that Premier should be six teams. If you look at the current teams, a six-pack of UBC, Surrey, Burnaby, SBAA, Westside and Norvan (or Poco), would make a pretty decent circuit.

I also think that there should be a U23 division, with the teams being affiliated to clubs in premier. A team like Burnaby B (or Pansies) would be the model for that. Are they good enough to be in the top level? No. But for the most part that group consists of players aged 17-20 who certainly have the potential to be top players given the right developmental environment.

If such a setup requires a new league then so be it. The MWSL is almost 95 percent recreational, and the board's philosophy follows suit (understandably).

The PCSL is a far more competitive league. Sure it has imported teams (interior, island, States), but it's a "quality over quantity" concept. The MWSL would do well to take that approach as well.

Having said all that, I am all for efforts to improve the quality of this league. I am certainly prepared to give this latest idea the benefit of the doubt and give it some time to work before passing judgement. I am just not all that hopeful.

 

[Cartdriver]

Lionheart comes roaring onboard....

Well, my redheaded LION friend has joined the debate...I love it!

Good points LH & FB, and yes, despite rarely doing so LH, you did make sense

I think the A & B can work, but it needs to be done the right way, which I hope the league is doing behind the scenes. The wrong way is to invite every team in that says YES, such as div 2 teams over good div 1 squads. The A will work with 6, as I agree that the talent pool is sufficient to stock that many top flight teams. The B teams should be squads with players/teams trying to make premier A. If a true "relegation and promotion" system exists, the A teams will play all out every game to avoid the last spot in the standings, and thus relegation to the B pool. And the B teams will play competitive & aggressive soccer to try to be that top B team (or two) to get the promotion. This way the B teams would be trying to bring in the best players (likely younger18-22 year olds) and develop them to play quality soccer. If done this way by the league, it will work. If they let in any team to B, you will have 12 teams with the many of the same 8-0 scroelines that happen in the current premier league.

We all know the current premier format doesn't work....the same teams float to the top and the same type of teams sit at the bottom struggling to field a competitive squad.

BTW Lionheart, are you in for co-ed next Friday.....I promise I'll set you up for one or two

 

[Six of One]

MWSL Cup Play

Does anyone know when the MWSL will update their website with the Cup Draw? Round robin cup play was set to start on the weekend of Feb.9 but now it seems to be Feb.2 (thanks for the notice ). I assume they have done the draw by now...

 

[Fat Bastard]

Cup Info

The Cup draws for Division 1,2,3,4 (and Classics and U21, I think) were e-mailed out last night. So check with whomever your team's contact is.

I don't know why it takes so long to get info out to the teams? I have been all over them to let us know what is up with Premier League Cup and Provincial Qualifying. I was told that would be decided before Xmas. No such luck. And still no word.

The website does say something about "Prem.Cup Qualifier" on March 23, 2003 ... whatever the Hell that is!?

I actually am a proponent of beginning the Cup competitions in the fall, mixing them up with league games. It would make the season a little more exciting. Regardless though, why can't the draw be done before Christmas?

I'll bet there were alot of teams who thought they were getting a week off on Feb.2. Too bad for them.

FBplaysNorvanthisweekend...wonderiftheircoachwillbethere-armedwithwaterbottle!

 

[Six of One]

I'll check with the team contact but feel free to post the groupings if you have received the email from the league.

 

[SC]

Shooters's win

besty , fill us in on the ladies' game...

+SCwho'shopingtotakeinaShooter'strainingsession

 

[anotherwhore]

Besty's game

I was at Besty's game on Sunday and the Westside Shooters demolished the Renegades 4-1. It was a completely one sided affair. The Shooters are definately the better team and it showed.

 

[Fat Bastard]

this week's results

Poco FC continues its impressive first season with a 5-3 dumping if struggling Westside - whose last two games have been 1-1 draw to Burnaby B and a 7-0 thrashing by the A side. Poco meanwhile has quietly moved up the standings to draw even with SBAA - who until today had hopes of a top three finish.

The feisty and persistent Beavers lost 2-0 at Burnaby Lake. Despite playing the soccer equivalent to the neutral-zone trap, SBAA was unable to contain the newly offensive Canadians. Sofia Hidalgo capitalized on an uncharacteristic Teresa Nuttall bobble to break the scoreless deadlock early into half number two. Robyn Scott rounded out the scoring ten minutes later with a clinical strike from 18 yards out. Michele Gademans had the bagel.

Burnaby B, uh the Pansies, knocked off the coachless Norvan 2-1. Despite playing without a real keeper, Burnaby's intensity paid off with two first half strikes - Alexis Carr on a thru ball and Dani Tabo who finished off a corner kick. Norvan pressured hard in the second half and scored early, but Burnaby gathered themselves and defended the lead well for the remainder of the half and five minutes of time-added-on. Striker Karla Kuellar and div.1 defender Tracy Fletcher shared the win filling in between the pipes.

Semiahmoo did not lose to SU today. Of course the game wasn't played but BD needs to find some silver lining somewhere!


Hey, CD. You should think about taking on Norvan next year. They could use your services. That team has a roster full of college and university all-stars, past and present, but can't seem to put it all together. The only explanation has to be coaching, or lack thereof. This team lacks focus. I coached against them in Div.1 two years ago, and in Premier last year. They were a team that played nice soccer with unmatched determination. They appear to have devolved into a beer-league squad who are more concerned with track suits and sweat shirts than they are with results. It's too bad... lots of talent there. Love to see them turn it around. Believe me, a strong North Shore premier team is good for the league.


FBlookingforwardtothisweekend'smatchupwithKindel'sladies.ThePansieswillgivethemarun.

 

[Keeper]

Re: Besty's game

Originally posted by anotherwhore
I was at Besty's game on Sunday and the Westside Shooters demolished the Renegades 4-1. It was a completely one sided affair. The Shooters are definately the better team and it showed.

Bold statement considering it didn't show at all the first time the two met. Makes for great competition, though. Hope they meet again next year (or in the cup run).

P.S. Regs, how come the "Reply" button isn't appearing anywhere?

 

[Fat Bastard]

Cup update

For those who haven't seen it yet...

Divisional Cup for 1,2,3,4 begins next week. First week sked is on the MWSL web page (which is much better than VMSL's, albeit only updated when there is a blue moon).

No word on Premier Cup - apparently will be determined by how long it takes to complete rest of league play. Hope it will be back. Last year was first year for it. Of course the league dropped the all-star game after just one year, and it was a resounding success last year.

Provincial Cup qualifying is set for March 23. Top place team gets a Provincial spot automatically, remaing four spots to be awarded as per playoff on the 23rd.

2nd vs 9th, 3rd vs 8th, 4th vs. 7th, 5th vs 6th. (If season ended today, it would be SU vs Semi, Burnaby vs Burnaby, SBAA vs. Norvan and Poco vs Westside.) I was kind of hoping for something a little more creative, but what the Hell.

 

[Cartdriver]

Recap....

Hey FB, congrats on a good result yesterday! I, too, am confused by Norvan....heck, I even picked them as my dark horse at the beginning of the year. In speaking quite often to one of their players, it seemed they were a bit disjointed at the beginnning of the year (they were not sure who was coming or going on their roster), and then a few were unhappy with the coaching, and then it turned into "I don't care anymore" for this player and a few others......so not a good situation for a premier squad that did look better and better the last two years. I would not take on the challenge unless both coaches walked away and I had free reign over the personel. I was offered once before to take over a North Shore squad and ran into too many player politics and stuff beyond my control

I was impressed by POCO the few times I saw them play this year.....hard working, decent job at following their system, and some young talent. Just the formula a first year squad needs to compete.