Lance Armstrong busted for doping.....

[johnnybluenose]

The fact remains that the US Department of Justice spent two years and Millions of US Tax Dollars to build a similar case against him like they did against Bonds and Clemens.
They gave up.
The Feds, abiding by the constitutional laws of the land, gave up- because they couldn't take the testimony/heresay of two banned former teammates trying to get reductions in their sanctions as a payoff for blowing the whistle on Armstrong. The data they were able to collect couldn't make the necessary burden to prosecute.

Yet USADA is able to carry on the way Hoover and McCarthy did back in the old days of Kangaroo Courts in the States.

 

[Sandman]

"Where is the positive tests?" and "Never failed a test" - can't that be said for Barry Bonds as well? Bonds has never failed a MLB test.

In my opinion, the perception of Lance walking away and not going thru the process of testimony and evidence does not look good.

The USDA will be releasing the evidence against Armstrong - i'll wait till then to pass judgement.

 

[cascadesoccer]

They also sleep with sleep.

 

[johnnybluenose]

"Where is the positive tests?" and "Never failed a test" - can't that be said for Barry Bonds as well? Bonds has never failed a MLB test.

In my opinion, the perception of Lance walking away and not going thru the process of testimony and evidence does not look good.

The USDA will be releasing the evidence against Armstrong - i'll wait till then to pass judgement.

Difference being Barry Bonds had physical changes that could only be described by PED use or some other condition that assisted in him gaining almost 100lbs in less than a decade, his head growing etc. Also he admitted in a closed court to using "Clear and Cream" and someone then leaked that to the press.

If the USADA actually had a smoking gun do you honestly believe the US DoJ would have abandoned their attempt to build a case against Armstrong? The US Dept of Justice (since Dubya and the rest of the sweeping rights changes were made following 9/11) has essentially all the resources, funding, and expertise to get to the bottom of anything- and they passed on Armstrong.

If they come out with 10-20 "eye witnesses" that said He used or cheated is he considered a cheat? Especially considering the "Witnesses" are people that are either tied to teams banned due to PED use and cheating or the riders themselves?

If someone was found dead and there were witnesses that say they saw You kill the dead person yet there was no physical evidence tying you to the crime you couldn't even be brought to trial, forget being found guilty.

Are Angels real? I've never seen one but my friends have told me so, so they must be!

I'm not sure Armstrong is guilty or innocent. It's just hard to believe that he passes all those tests and not one shred of damning physical evidence has ever been discovered. I'm with you on that, if they can produce evidence then I will say he's a cheater- till then he's being victimized.

 

[cascadesoccer]

evidence like this? he totally juiced, sooooo obvious

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Is it cheating if they are all doing it? Seriously...where do you draw the line , Captain? When you bet on sports, do you put your ideology away for the wager, like when your favorite juicer is favored.

Dude, I was saying that tongue in cheek. I know a guy who was very high up in the track and field world in Canada and he outright said 80-85 % of the athletes were juicing back during his day...he never did but never did get to the 'next' level. There are a lot of athletes who CHEAT but no matter how many of them are.....they are still 'cheating' because it is illegal to do what they are doing..........baseball/football.........Hell I"ve heard they might even take steroids in WWE wrestling!!! WTF?

 

[Dude]

Dude, I was saying that tongue in cheek. I know a guy who was very high up in the track and field world in Canada and he outright said 80-85 % of the athletes were juicing back during his day...he never did but never did get to the 'next' level. There are a lot of athletes who CHEAT but no matter how many of them are.....they are still 'cheating' because it is illegal to do what they are doing..........baseball/football.........Hell I"ve heard they might even take steroids in WWE wrestling!!! WTF?

I heard the same...I wonder if we have the same source?

The big reason reason I am up in arms in this is because - cheat ur not- LA has passed the tests. Now we are down to a non-governened governing body using very questionable material witnesses to judge the man- bought and paid for witnesses. Imagine if our society judged actual crimes this way?

 

[girth]

It's too bad that this is happening to him as the guys that got second thru 20th no doubt were doing the same thing. It just so happens that they didn't win so they won't be investigated the same way. Doesn't change a thing for me...he's still the best ever period!

 

[Dude]

So, the USADA has released their investigation findings, found here: Cycling Investigation - USADA

I could read some of these affidavits all day long. They are facinating, but at the same time, they also kind of prove what I've been saying all along.

I also rode w/ a former pro road and mountain biker last week in Colorado Springs. Fantastic rider who climbed like a goat at 9,000' elevation while I was bleeding out of my lungs, but I digress...

Like a lot of "fringe" pros I've ridden with over the years, his single biggest excuse for not making it big in Europe was his reluctance to get on the program. Never did say if he did or didn't, but did make it clear that being on the PED plan is the difference maker in just being able to hang in Europe as a domestique. When he went to Holland to join his pro team, some of the local pros were asking if he'd gotten on the plan yet, he'd said no, and they all said something to the effect of "see you in 6 months". He was back in less than that, tail between his legs.

He's now a full time coach and trainer, and races pro occasionally for extra cash or bragging rights.

Like I've said...I have no doubt Armstrong used. This report is a massive smoking gun, if not iron clad proof. I have a hard time saying he was dirty, unless you can label the whole sport dirty. You just can't do what these guys are asked to do without some form of help to recover, day after day.

Take some time to read some of this stuff...it is facinating.

 

[Dude]

This exchange is awesome…pulled from “Exhibit J 2005-07-26 Vaughters - Andreu IM Exchange.pdf”. This conversation took place as LA was winning his 7th title, before he retire the first time.

The one theme- LA being a general all around cnut- is basically repeated. He was apparently a great leader, but very hard on his teammates, plus when you left, public enemy #1. The stuff of him being the boss of the peleton was legend. That said, the fellow I rode w/ in CO basically confirmed the same thing…if LA wasn’t such a cnut, guys wouldn’t be lining up to throw him under the bus. Again, this is something that I kind of knew already, but my chatting w/ this rider, plus the smoking evidence coming out from this report is complete confirmation. Colorado Springs, BTW, is increadibly plugged in to the Professional Road and XC Mountain Bike world. Seems that all the best current, past, and future US pros are somehow connected to Colorado.

Interestingly, Floyd Landis, in 2006, won the TDF then was DQed for a positive drug sample. This all took place after he moved to Phonak from Armstrong’s Discovery team after the 2004 season.

Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells
FDREU: they have it mastered. good point
Cyclevaughters: they draw the blood right after the dauphine
FDREU: how do they sneak it in, or keep it until needed
FDREU: i'm sure it's not with the truck in the frig
Cyclevaughters: motorcycle - refridgerated panniers
Cyclevaughters: on the rest day
Cyclevaughters: floyd has a photo of the thing
FDREU: crazy! it' just keep going to new levels
Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's complicated, but with enough money you can do it
FDREU: they have enough money. Floyd was so pissed at them this entire tour
Cyclevaughters: anyhow - i just feel sorry for floyd and some of the other guys
Cyclevaughters: why would lance keep doing the shite when he clearly has nothing to prove - it's weird
FDREU: I know. me to. they all get ripped into for no reason
FDREU: he's done now, thank god. but they will prove next year for Johan's sake that they are the greatest
Cyclevaughters: and then lance says " this guy and that guys are pussies"
FDREU: they won't stop
FDREU: I agree
Cyclevaughters: then i've got tiger as one of my sponosrs, and he loves to pick my mind...what do i say?
FDREU: You play dumb.
FDREU: You can't talk with them about this stuff
FDREU: I would think they would freak
Cyclevaughters: yeah, that's tough - i do, but it's tough
Cyclevaughters: maybe they should freak
Cyclevaughters: what about dan osipow or louise? do they know what's up?
FDREU: I know, I get tired of hearing how great Lance is, what a super person, etc. It's crazy and it's hard to not just tall people he is a cheat and asshole
FDREU: I think not. they just run the team. They are never allowed in a hotel room or bus or anything
Cyclevaughters: every other team in the tour you could just walk right on to their bus and say hi
Cyclevaughters: but disco won't let dan on?
Cyclevaughters: all right

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

pete rose , ben johnson, you have a new king

cant wait to see his speech at his tear filled press conference

 

[akslop]

To many rats living amongst us

 

[Yoda]

Not to mention Marion Jones who forfeited all 5 medals at Sydney Olympics and was adamant she did not use drugs.
Lied to a grand jury even.

 

[Dude]

To many rats living amongst us

My thoughts exactly.

Tim Berners-Lee...you seem to have a pretty polarized opinion on this. You can't be so naive as to think the professional cycling and triathlon worlds are actually clean, can you?

Tell me what this USADA investigation actually accomplishes? Is the TDF going to place an * next to all of LA's wins? Because if they do, they may as well place it next to every one dating back to the first race.

 

[cascadesoccer]

Seems like he was just pointing out that he may be the king of cheaters and scandals, imo.

 

[TheRob]

Not to mention Marion Jones who forfeited all 5 medals at Sydney Olympics and was adamant she did not use drugs.
Lied to a grand jury even.

I'm sure she just "misremembered".

 

[Dude]

Seems like he was just pointing out that he may be the king of cheaters and scandals, imo.

Haha...quite possibly. I still maintain, they are all equal level cheaters. Drugs or not, he's the best of his generation.

A generation of juicers, yes.

 

[cascadesoccer]

Lance Armstrong cheated fair enough, he also beat cancer and raised millions for cancer, good on him he's done more for charity and cycling than they could ever have done themselves. Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire all juiced made baseball some what exciting for once. Every sport has their juicers some get caught some don't, as a sports fan I could care less, I can't blame them for doing it, you take a risk but also look at the possible reward, millions and the spot light. As a ufc fan, who didn't want to see lesnar vs overeem, the bigger the fight the better, I could careless if overeem was half t-rex. as a fan fcuk ya lets see him fight a bear on ppv. For the baseball fans who doesn't want to see 900 homeruns a year. Steroids help these sports grow (literally) it gives fans something to see whether we know they're on juice or not we want results, it gives the papers something to write about. If the whitecaps could all crank and go undefeated none of us would care because OUR team is succeeding. I don't believe the crap about steroids "giving the game a black eye" as long as there is a fight or game, people will watch.

 

[Dude]

Lance Armstrong cheated fair enough, he also beat cancer and raised millions for cancer, good on him he's done more for charity and cycling than they could ever have done themselves. Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire all juiced made baseball some what exciting for once. Every sport has their juicers some get caught some don't, as a sports fan I could care less, I can't blame them for doing it, you take a risk but also look at the possible reward, millions and the spot light. As a ufc fan, who didn't want to see lesnar vs overeem, the bigger the fight the better, I could careless if overeem was half t-rex. as a fan fcuk ya lets see him fight a bear on ppv. For the baseball fans who doesn't want to see 900 homeruns a year. Steroids help these sports grow (literally) it gives fans something to see whether we know they're on juice or not we want results, it gives the papers something to write about. If the whitecaps could all crank and go undefeated none of us would care because OUR team is succeeding. I don't believe the crap about steroids "giving the game a black eye" as long as there is a fight or game, people will watch.

I am pretty much on board with this.

 

[4thplacetrophy]

Lance Armstrong cheated fair enough, he also beat cancer and raised millions for cancer, good on him he's done more for charity and cycling than they could ever have done themselves. Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire all juiced made baseball some what exciting for once. Every sport has their juicers some get caught some don't, as a sports fan I could care less, I can't blame them for doing it, you take a risk but also look at the possible reward, millions and the spot light. As a ufc fan, who didn't want to see lesnar vs overeem, the bigger the fight the better, I could careless if overeem was half t-rex. as a fan fcuk ya lets see him fight a bear on ppv. For the baseball fans who doesn't want to see 900 homeruns a year. Steroids help these sports grow (literally) it gives fans something to see whether we know they're on juice or not we want results, it gives the papers something to write about. If the whitecaps could all crank and go undefeated none of us would care because OUR team is succeeding. I don't believe the crap about steroids "giving the game a black eye" as long as there is a fight or game, people will watch.

Cheating is cheating. And there's many of people who beat Cancer but never got any sort of recognition from people other than their families and friends. The guy is a cheater, bottom line.
Livewrong