Time for new blood

[coachrich]

Many of you have hit the nail on the head -

1. You need people to fill the spots that are there.

2. Need to id what needs to be changed

3. You need buy in on what needs to be changed.


How to do things -

1. Get a copy of the MWSL constitution which will outline how the MWSL conducts it's matters as a Board, AGM, election & etc. If they don't furnish one ask BCSA Member Services as all Leagues, District & Clubs are required to file their Constitution, Financials & etc each season.

2. If they are a Society, get a copy of the minutes book to see Board minutes.

Get copies of the policies they have or guidelines as the MWSL doesn't have a Guidelines or Operating Rules Manual. As I foung out in my 1st year in the MWSL that somethings are done as they happen. There should be a Guidelines or Operating Rules Manual that spells out the running of the league

3. Create a plan w/ interested members who want to change things & use the policies & consitution to do it. To talk is one thing but if you use the paperwork or rules you get somewhere.

On a personal note, I don't feel for a 200 team league you need paid people.

Also, there is no Operating Rules book that cover all the situations we run into over the season.

Further for 200 teams why isn't there a schedule for the whole season.

In comparing the youth league say 5 District where there are 660 teams the MWSL leaves a lot to be desired in numerous areas.

Again, I'm new but I've seen something better in youth & the object should be to make it the easiest for the players & coaches to play in the league as the goal is to have fun & keep the love of the game going & growing.

My 25 cents worth.....

 

[Can'tHeadABall]

On the topic of discipline. Doesn't the MWSL follow the CSA/BCSA Discipline Guidelines, which says how many games for each type of offence?

I can't speak for anybody else, but we had 2 cases this year where 2 players received red cards in separate games (of which I was away I might add) and as much as I totally disagree with the reds to begin with, as far as the discipline is concerned, I sat in on one of the meetings of my players and even though no one wants to be suspended, I felt the committee on that particular case did a fair job and took our statement into account and did follow the BCSA Discipline Guidlines. I have no complaints with the ruling, just the initial cards which they had no control over.

I will add that it is important to go to the discipline ruling and be prepared with an accurate account of what happened because in our 2nd case, what the referee wrote on his report was totally inaccurate and if we didn't go in to debate and do our best to convince the committee that it was incorrect, I'm sure my player could have gotten considerably more games or the season, all based on a referee report which had so many glaring errors an inaccurate statements. If you even know the coach or players on the opposition willing to support your viewpoint, so much the better.

My 2-bits. I know Munchkin will crucify me for this but I call it as I see it.

CHAB

 

[Rosco]

i haven't done it for awhile but i've sat on the discipline committee several times (and been on the other side of the table twice ) and they do follow the guidlines. in fact, from what i've seen the suspensions handed out are almost always lighter than what's in the book.

i didn't like a decision made against me once and that's what got me involved. if you want to be a part of it, contact john jukes, he is the one who arranges discipline and they are always looking for people.

 

[Wings]

In my experience the Discipline Guidelines are not followed at all. In two instances this season, the guidelines were not followed at all. A player on our team received 4 games for her red (2 yellows - one for questioning a call, and one for a hard challenge - neither of which even deserved the yellow in the first place) and a player on an opposing team received only 2 games for a vicious attack from behind (while the ball was out at the opposite end of the field!). I questioned the sentencing of the player who attacked my teammate - I even obtained a copy of the guidelines, highlighted the appropriate section in an email to John Jukes, and the ruling was not changed. I did not even get an explanation from John as to why the sentence did not match the guidelines.

I also volunteered to be on the Disciplinary Committee, and was told I would be on an alternate contact list as they already had enough people...I haven't heard anything since...

 

[munchkin]

On the topic of discipline. Doesn't the MWSL follow the CSA/BCSA Discipline Guidelines, which says how many games for each type of offence?

That may be the idea in theory, but the process is flawed in a couple of ways. Firstly, from our experience this year, there are players from Div. 1 ruling on offences from within Div. 1. I don't know if this happens if other divisions, but players from other teams sitting on the commitee that want to punish an opposing team from the same pool are in an unfair position of power. While they may try to be objective, it should be a player from a different division ruling on these matters.

Also, teams have no recourse when a referee submits a totally inaccurate report of the incident (also experienced first hand) when the committee relies so heavily on that refs report. I do understand that a particular player's version might be biased towards herself, but my one teammate's statement indicated truthfully what her actions were, but the opposing team's player, who tried to start a fight afterwards, recieved no punishment. How is this fair?

I have already offered to attend the AGM on behalf of my team to try and be voted onto the executive to try and figure out if we can determine a fairer, and less biased system for deciding disciplinary action.

 

[Rosco]

Also, teams have no recourse when a referee submits a totally inaccurate report of the incident (also experienced first hand) when the committee relies so heavily on that refs report. I do understand that a particular player's version might be biased towards herself, but my one teammate's statement indicated truthfully what her actions were, but the opposing team's player, who tried to start a fight afterwards, recieved no punishment. How is this fair?

i agree with you. i have had that experience too. decisions can be appealed to bc soccer but i am not sure anything would happen.

in fairness to the refs, they can't see everyting. i think all games should have 2 official linesman. i understand that hasn't happened because the teams can't afford it and they league doesn't have the people.

 

[Fat Bastard]

The league has trouble getting two assistant just for premier games. There is a severe shortage of officials in the Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley, and it's made worse because more than a handful won't do womens games, won't do lower divisions, etc.

And that's an extra $25 per team for every game.

The discipline committee should be directors, not players. I understand the concept, but the perception of conflict of interest is too significant - and sometimes it's reality, as noted in the above account.

 

[Wings]

One more point to add relating to discipline: Your slate should be wiped clean at the end of the season. I know of players who have received much harsher (is that a word??) sentences than they should of because they receieved a red in the previous season, or because they received 3 yellows in a previous season. Leave the past in the past.

(And I have to add that in an email sent by John Jukes, he states that 3 yellows in a season is extremely high, and that most players don't recieve 3 yellows in their entire playing career....I seriously laughed out loud when I read that...)

 

[Fat Bastard]

3 yellows in an entire career? That is funny. I know there's a difference between men and women soccer (actually the difference is more in how the refs deal with things - ie. refs think womens soccer is synonym for "no paperwork".), but I have girls on my youth team that rack up 2-3 yellows a season.

As for me, well I wasn't too big on yellow. Red was more my colour.

 

[Wings]

Don't even get us started on how we're treated way differently to the men...Probably the main difference is that men can spout off in all sorts of colourful language but if a girl drops the unthinkable F bomb...out come the cards! How does Mr. Jukes expect us to keep our card count down when they're being given out like candy canes at Christmas??

 

[BlazeArmy]

yellow Card for you Wings!!!

There is nothing wrong with Candy Cane at Christmas.

 

[Referee]

All discipline committee for the affiliated leagues has to follow the BCSA "Bible" of discipline guidelines. As to whether they do, that leaves alot to desired. The suspensions being handed out are less lenient than what they are supposed to be.

You have to remember, the people on the discipline committees are volunteers and do not get paid for it.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

3 yellows in an entire career? That is funny. I know there's a difference between men and women soccer (actually the difference is more in how the refs deal with things - ie. refs think womens soccer is synonym for "no paperwork".), but I have girls on my youth team that rack up 2-3 yellows a season.

As for me, well I wasn't too big on yellow. Red was more my colour.

Some refs should pack it in.........while they still have their 'dignity'. Mr. Rogers had a shocker yesterday......his second game in a row..... He is not letting tackles from behind be a part of the game......dangerous stuff.

 

[Chub Rub]

Yaaaaawwwwwn

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Productive post, Chub. Where can I find your other 4?

Mr. Rogers, at one time was an excellent referee. For some reason, he has a tendency to not call a lot any more. I still have a lot of respect for him as a person for what it is worth, as I know he has put a lot of time into the game.

 

[munchkin]

Productive post, Chub. Where can I find your other 4?

Mr. Rogers, at one time was an excellent referee. For some reason, he has a tendency to not call a lot any more. I still have a lot of respect for him as a person for what it is worth, as I know he has put a lot of time into the game.

Wow did Gord Rogers have a shocker yesterday reffing our cup game...

FIRST gaff: Nic took a girl down from behind, which should have been a foul in the first place, but that player, obviously not happy about it, swung her legs at our player. She made contact with Nic's legs and what happened for it? Nothing!! She got a "talking to!" This is the exact kind of offense that one of our player's received a straight RED card for earlier in the year as it was dangeroud play, and Kristin hadn't even made contact that time, she just swung and missed! Talk about inconsistency.

SECOND gaff: Our outside mid tackled a Delta player hard, but fair, and that girl, not happy about it either, gets up and two-hand shoves Sherrie in the chest, TWICE, trying to fight her. Nothing, again. Isn't that an automatic card for trying to start a fight?

THIRD gaff: We scored a pretty ugly goal where Nic pinged a soft shot off the post, and seeing as how it bounced right back to her about 4 feet out, she passed it across the net as their team was scrambling into the net to try and line up and stop the shot, but we scored from about 6 yards out. Gord, in his infinite wisdom from back at the centre circle, called it offside, even though they had at least 2 Delta defenders standing on the goal line with the keeper!

He let so many things go that should have been fouls against both teams, and then when he did take out the whistle, he called a few mystery ones. We didn't know which way was up or down with this guy. He is a very nice person and no doubt is trying his best, but boy it wan't pretty. In fact, it is pretty much how the year has gone ref wise so far. Some pretty brutal gamesfrom some pretty brutal refs. And writing a ref report doesn't seem to do much, so I guess we are just stuck with them.

 

[Can'tHeadABall]

I vote for Alikira or Walks as President of the referees association or chief allocator for the MWSL Maybe Spazz or Striker14 should take up the whistle. We all know what Striker would call and not call

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I vote that you stop using this smilie, CHAB.


As for the President.......no time or qualifications......but thanks for the offer.

 

[coachrich]

Productive post, Chub. Where can I find your other 4?

Mr. Rogers, at one time was an excellent referee. For some reason, he has a tendency to not call a lot any more. I still have a lot of respect for him as a person for what it is worth, as I know he has put a lot of time into the game.

Well said. We've asked in our Game Reports to not have him Ref our games. Too passive on attacks in the numbers & off the ball. We had 2 players in the same game carried off due to attacks from behind. 1 gone for the season the other out for a couple of weeks. The attacker didn't even get a talk to let alone a card!!!

So much for player safety & retention.

 

[Fat Bastard]

It's funny. We had Gord in a PCSL game last year - Tri-Cities v Whitecaps. It was a dandy match that moved at light speed, thanks to the presence of several current and former whitecaps (Milbrett, Andrews, Hermus, Rohla, Trotman, Hicks, Maglio and so on). And Gord reffed an absolutely brilliant match. Not that there weren't missed calls both ways, but I think he allowed the players to play.

Maybe it was because the higher level he was more into it. I dunno. I do know he has had some shockers in the MWSL (I still have nightmares about one cup game 10 years ago). But we usually remember the bad ones, not the good ones, don't we?

I also know that of the current MWSL crew, there is nobody more qualified and experienced to take charge of this League. He's a conflict resolution specialist, he's got more connections in the soccer world than we could shake a stick at, and he has some sense of vision.