The MWSL has just decided to change the rules....

[Keeper]

Right. Didn't read that far yet.

What you said. Safe to assume no response from that second email yet?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Right. Didn't read that far yet.

What you said. Safe to assume no response from that second email yet?

No, not yet, and I will be contacting the other board members again who I have already spoken to. As already mentioned, it is ****ing disgraceful how this league is run at times. If there was another alternative...........

 

[Keeper]

I agree.

Another occurance last year in Premier B, when "they" decided to abitrarily split the group and allow only the top 4 team play each other for half the season, while the bottom teams were only allowed to play each other.

Don't ask me why, because I never heard a reasonable explaination.

Funny, that situation could have went by the title of this thread as well.

 

[bravedart]

This should come as no surprise to anyone. The league has always behaved on the whims of a few teams/individuals.

This happens all the time. You can never get a clear understanding of the rules because there is always an exception.

The MWSL has a problem dealing with both recreational and competitive teams when they play in the same league. I understand that the rules should be more loosely laid out for teams that are purely recreational (i.e. those teams that do not care about promotion/relegation and will not be pulling up players on permit, they just want to play). THe rules are different for them then the competitive teams that are fighting for top spot and need clearly laid out rules that don't change because somebody knows someone or asked nicely.

I think that the league should seriously consider splitting the recreational side and the competitive side (and that does not mean making Div.2 and higher the competitive side and Div 3 and lower the recreational side) since there are teams that are purely recreational playing in Div. 1 and Selects and teams that are competitive playing in Div. 3/4.

All the league would have to do is ask teams to choose to play competitive or recreational. The recreational teams can play until thanksgiving and then they could readjust the league to avoid the 5-0 lumpings of teams who are in the wrong recreational groupings. the competitive league could start with the lowest at Div. 2 and run based on strict rules (if you win your group you ARE promoted, if you lose your group you ARE relegated - no more of the whining enough so it doesn't happen).

This permit problem came about because a recreational team did not like what the rules allowed or did not think it was fair. I do not have a problem with this team complaining as I understand that many players at the Div. 3 and 4 level do not want to play against the talent youth players when they are basically only out to have a fun game and play another team at their own level. All of the things that competitive teams feel is wrong with the league is caused because they are trying to cater to recreational teams.

Oh and BTW the board (some of them in particular) feel that the only competitive teams are playing at the Premier level. It's hard to imagine that any team not in Premier would want to be a competitive team.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

This permit problem came about because a recreational team did not like what the rules allowed or did not think it was fair. I do not have a problem with this team complaining as I understand that many players at the Div. 3 and 4 level do not want to play against the talent youth players when they are basically only out to have a fun game and play another team at their own level. All of the things that competitive teams feel is wrong with the league is caused because they are trying to cater to recreational teams.

True, Bravedart, but what happened in the summer league this year was a North Shore team (U-16 from what I understand) entered the league and there were lots of complaints. The complaints have led to this particular ruling. IT said right on the front page of the web site. The problem here? Who the **** let this team register in the first place? Surely they knew the kids were just that...........There are NO youth permits in the summer and there are YOUTH permits in the winter. So a rule that doesn't exist in the summer has led directly to this problem in the winter.

I didn't know teams could be competitive in divisions lower than Premier 'A'. My mistake.

 

[bravedart]

As for the no permits over the summer, I am surprised that Bob did not mention anything about this in his emails. I have brought up youth players over summer before and it has been insisted that I submit a permit for them every week (even when they played for us all summer).

I am also surprised that the NS U16 team registered all of their playersaith the MWSL. If they officially registered in the adult league they would lose their eligibility as youth players and could not play in the youth league again until they had been reinstated by BCSA. As the team would want to play youth league again in the fall I assume they did this. And from what I have been told about reinstating youth players from the adult league back to the youth league it is fairly cumbersome for one individual not to mention 16 or 17 of them. I wonder what the league really did here?

 

[Fat Bastard]

Further to BD's comment about reinstatement. He's right, but he missed another point. This team would have had to have all of their players re-instated back to youth players. The catch of course is that according to BCSA by-laws, no youth team may sign more than three re-instated players in one year. This of course means that this NS team is in fact ineligible. I don't know if this the MWSL's department, but more of the youth districts. But BC Soccer does not and has not enforced this rule for summer soccer. Largely because it's intended to stop players from playing for a senior team and youth team in the same season. But you're not allowed to play in two BCSA-sanctioned leagues at the same time either, and how many players play MWSL sumemr and co-ed soccer?

As for the permit issue, one person I know was told by Bob that if enough teams complain they'll look at it again. That's the way to stick to their convictions.

Further, the idea of exceptions for certain players is ludicrous. How will they determine which players are worthy and who are not? Not sure how many people on that board are qualified to make such decisions.

And BD is also bang on with his opinions about competitive and recreational. I was on the board for four years. During that time, and to a much greater degree since then, the Board has taken a massive swing towards recreational soccer. And to be honest, they do a very good job of it. But competitive soccer is failing, and failing horribly. The level of play even at Premier is not where it used to be, there's been no effort to promote the club system, which is the key to developing this league. Even at Premier there are teams who aren't willing to make the sacrifices to be competitive, but the league continues to cater to their complaints.

When directors (such as Bob was with Burnaby) were involved with Premier teams, the Board acted much differently. Now that the Premier division, and even Division One, has such littlle representation on the Board, if any, their issues are not being dealt with.

I suggest that the Board needs people like Captain, BD, and so on. People who understand competitive soccer, and the nuances of such things as a club system and soccer development. But should you choose to go that route, you should be warned that dealing with some of these directors can be a frustrating exercise. If you can put up with it, you'll outlast them and get things going in the right direction. But like many before you, you'll simply throw your hands up in despair and go back to just coaching.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Further to BD's comment about reinstatement. He's right, but he missed another point. This team would have had to have all of their players re-instated back to youth players. The catch of course is that according to BCSA by-laws, no youth team may sign more than three re-instated players in one year. This of course means that this NS team is in fact ineligible. I don't know if this the MWSL's department, but more of the youth districts. But BC Soccer does not and has not enforced this rule for summer soccer. Largely because it's intended to stop players from playing for a senior team and youth team in the same season. But you're not allowed to play in two BCSA-sanctioned leagues at the same time either, and how many players play MWSL sumemr and co-ed soccer?

As for the permit issue, one person I know was told by Bob that if enough teams complain they'll look at it again. That's the way to stick to their convictions.

Further, the idea of exceptions for certain players is ludicrous. How will they determine which players are worthy and who are not? Not sure how many people on that board are qualified to make such decisions.

And BD is also bang on with his opinions about competitive and recreational. I was on the board for four years. During that time, and to a much greater degree since then, the Board has taken a massive swing towards recreational soccer. And to be honest, they do a very good job of it. But competitive soccer is failing, and failing horribly. The level of play even at Premier is not where it used to be, there's been no effort to promote the club system, which is the key to developing this league. Even at Premier there are teams who aren't willing to make the sacrifices to be competitive, but the league continues to cater to their complaints.

When directors (such as Bob was with Burnaby) were involved with Premier teams, the Board acted much differently. Now that the Premier division, and even Division One, has such littlle representation on the Board, if any, their issues are not being dealt with.

I suggest that the Board needs people like Captain, BD, and so on. People who understand competitive soccer, and the nuances of such things as a club system and soccer development. But should you choose to go that route, you should be warned that dealing with some of these directors can be a frustrating exercise. If you can put up with it, you'll outlast them and get things going in the right direction. But like many before you, you'll simply throw your hands up in despair and go back to just coaching.

Great points, gentlemen. There are a few parents who will be getting involved now too..........

Further, the idea of exceptions for certain players is ludicrous. How will they determine which players are worthy and who are not? Not sure how many people on that board are qualified to make such decisions.

That was exactly what I sent to him in the last e-mail. No one can determine this. We will keep going until AT LEAST the teams can vote on such an issue..............


Thanks for your points, gentlemen. Yes, Bravedart it would be interesting to see what that young team actually did for the summer......


Hail Hail

 

[bravedart]

I suggest that the Board needs people like Captain, BD, and so on. People who understand competitive soccer, and the nuances of such things as a club system and soccer development. But should you choose to go that route, you should be warned that dealing with some of these directors can be a frustrating exercise. If you can put up with it, you'll outlast them and get things going in the right direction. But like many before you, you'll simply throw your hands up in despair and go back to just coaching.

I had my self nominated last year to be on the board. It was funny to notice that after the vote count during the AGM a motion was made to destroy the ballots that instant (before any recount could be done). I have never seen that happen at an AGM before, and I have gone to the last five. did find it quite unusual to see sooooooo many different faces discussing things with the vote counters while the counting was going on. I know that I can't count past 20 with too many distractions.

Getting on the board may be what is needed but I see it as a very difficult task to accomplish since most teams do not know what is going on and will just keep the same people up their anyway because they have not had a problem.

Also, in a brief chat with a new player on my team today I happened to mention the issues the league is having with youth permits and she said a good way to approach it would be labled as age discrimination. Perhaps there is some legal precedent over what we are arguing already?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Bravedart,


The AGM was a fcuking joke this year. I know there was at least one person who was going to be nominated for the President's position only to be told that the board would be voting on this, not the teams present. The fellow asked...

"So I can get nominated here and then the board has the right to shoot me down by voting"

"Yah, basically that's how it works".....was the response. I've never seen anything like that. I left knowing that the meeting was a complete waste of ****ing time. I was told by a board member 3 days ago that we must try to pass a motion to have all the TEAMS(imagine that) vote on who the president should be etc.........So once we know who is interested next year........that will definitely be done.........

As for the legal stuff, Bravedart, I'll leave that in your hands, if you don't mind. As I said, I have a few parents of the kids who are now getting involved..........Next step I suppose...........At least give the fcuking teams a chance to vote..............especially the teams who will be impacted by this arbitrary decision.......


Hail Hail

BTW, Bravedart, Club Ireland is going to Reno at the end of April/start of May so make sure you sign up again to be part of the trip of a lifetime.

 

[soccermadman1]

Metro WOMEN's Soccer League - Women not girls - there's a league for girls too young to play MWSL. Why not ask the players (especially those in their mid 20's) if they want to play with kids...I think the answer would be NO. You may have your reasons for bringing young players into MWSL but it isn't just about you and the dream team you want to create. You impact the enjoyment for all the WOMEN who are playing...just a thought.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Metro WOMEN's Soccer League - Women not girls - there's a league for girls too young to play MWSL. Why not ask the players (especially those in their mid 20's) if they want to play with kids...I think the answer would be NO. You may have your reasons for bringing young players into MWSL but it isn't just about you and the dream team you want to create. You impact the enjoyment for all the WOMEN who are playing...just a thought.

Dream team? Are you capable of reading you moron? Try and read some of the stuff.......For some reason, I think I know who you are already.......your thought has NO substance so it is probably best ignored....


Why limit your fantastic question to people in their mid-20s? Fantastic reasoning. You sound like the president when he's asked questions...... Never can give an answer....So why should youth players not be allowed to be brought up on permit? Why would they have permits in the first place? Why does it work in the mens league? I'm looking forward to your responses.....

BTW, Einstein, should players be allowed to play on a National Womens Team if they are still young enough to play youth?


GIRUY

 

[Conductor]

But you're not allowed to play in two BCSA-sanctioned leagues at the same time either, and how many players play MWSL sumemr and co-ed soccer?

Fat Bastard I'm enjoying reading what you and most others have to say on this topic but thought I would let you know that the co-ed league in the summer is not sanctioned with BCSA.At least the AMSL co-ed league that is.

 

[SC]

Why not ask the players (especially those in their mid 20's) if they want to play with kids...I think the answer would be NO. .

Why don't you (the Board) ask the players/teams then??? Better yet, have them vote on the issue, it's only fair to hear from everyone.


I'm past my mid 20s and I still enjoy a higher level game ... youth included...

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I disagree, SC. They should only ask ladies in their mid-20s with big jugs. That is probably a perfect sample to represent the whole league.


Wheelsareinmotion CSC


BTW, I have requested the minutes from the last 9 months of meetings. I'm looking forward to receiving that......

 

[Fat Bastard]

I have reviewed the MWSL Consitution. A document that has been largely ignored by MWSL directors past and present. My copy is the 1994 edition, but it should be current, as to my knowledge there have been no amendments passed at any AGM's in the past decade. So here's some bylaws that have been breached...

Article Two - Section 3: The Treasurer shall forward to each club in membership a copy of an interim financial report at least 14 days prior to the Annual General Meeting. Has anyone seen financial statement before the AGM (Hell, there were years there we didn't get them AT the AGM.)

Article Three - Section 2: The Board of Directors shall elect from among themselves the following: President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, Registrar, and three (3) members at large. Until this year, I am certain there was no treasurer officially for many years. There is no registrar to my knowledge. But the website does list a 'past-president' which is common in many groups, but not recognized by the MWSL constitution.

Article Four - Section 12: No member of the Executive shall be a paid employee either directly or indirectly of the League. I won't make comment on this, other than to say that some directors were paid for their time in the office and for work done at home. Having been on the board, I don't have a problem with this per se, but it needs to be more up front, if it is still happening.

Now here's where it gets interesting, as it pertains to the issue at hand. Keep in mind the Constitution was last updated in 1994.

Article Twelve - Section 4: Players turning eighteen (18) prior to December 31 of the current playing year are eligible to sign with no restrictions. Therefore, any player whose birthdate falls after December 31st of the current playing season is eligible for registration in the M.W.S.L. provided that they were not registered on a Juvenile soccer team after July 31st of the calendar year immediately proceeding their 18th birthday. This puts an interesting spin on things, because this would mean that even U18 players cannot SIGN with MWSL teams.

And finally...

Article Twelve - Section 11: Youth players from B.C.Y.S.A. may be brought up for tryout for a total of three (3) games during the winter season. Permit forms from the B.C.Y.S.A. along with validated League identification cards are required. The identification card is to be returned to the League after each allowable game. The three game limit is the old BCYSA rule, and no longer applies. And it probably isn't feasible to create a card with every permit. But the CONSTITUTION allows for permits.

Of course, there is this section which they could fall back on...

Article Five - Section 5: The Executive may, from time to time, institute temporary rules and regulations covering specific cases not covered in the Constitution. However, a review and decision must be made at the next Annual General Meeting on the future use of these temporary rules and regulations.

So there you go. Just a little research on the MWSL Constitution and this issue at hand. Have fun!

FB. Out.

 

[soccermadman1]

I have a great idea...Maybe if Captain Shamrock only signs players with big jugs he can finally fulfill his dream of playing. Go get your head checked for wanting to coach little girls you sick F&%^! And yes, you know who I am - you know me well...I am THE PRESIDENT - you soccer genius!
Some advice: try to be more of a role model and people will have more respect for you in the league (and in meetings)- talking about jugs and insulting people isn't what parents of teenage girls are looking for in a coach.
FYI: MWSL has rules and you know them. Nothing's been designed to intentionally piss you off - it isn't all about you...really!
How many permits would make you stop crying like a little girlie? Are you practicing for the next time you bitch on the sideline?
Here's a serious question for you: how much time do you spend coaching as opposed to taking stats on the size of women's breasts? Let us know when that study is published!

 

[soccermadman1]

Why don't you (the Board) ask the players/teams then??? Better yet, have them vote on the issue, it's only fair to hear from everyone.


I think you have an excellent point there - if the players want it then it should happen.

 

[Fat Bastard]

I have a great idea...Maybe if Captain Shamrock only signs players with big jugs he can finally fulfill his dream of playing. Go get your head checked for wanting to coach little girls you sick F&%^! And yes, you know who I am - you know me well...I am THE PRESIDENT - you soccer genius!

It's official... This thread just turned ugly.

 

[SC]

I think you have an excellent point there - if the players want it then it should happen.

How do the players request this?