Welcome to the TTP community
Be apart of something great, join today!
Numb from the Covid
- Thread starter Regs
- Start date
How deadly is 640,000 / 328,000,000? 0.02% (deaths / population in US)
or...
640,000 / 38,000,000? 1.6% (deaths / positive test, US)
I don't even think those numbers make it statistically relevant, do they? A quick google search of that question tells me that "A p-value of < 0.05 is the conventional threshold for declaring statistical significance." So, not statistically relevant by population, and arguably statistically relevant by positive case load. Open to being shown I'm wrong, this is top page results research.
Anyways, sorry man, my research
D ) those those are not enough deaths for a population of 328M- where ~3M people die every year for past three years- to be relevant. People forget how damn high the population is in the US, and how dense as well. Here is the results of another fast google search, so I don't know how biased or accurate this website is. (old line, I'm busy over here, you know
) https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/con...5Vom3DzVkQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGAThose of you may say, "But wait Dude! Just wait a second! This is showing an additional 345,323 deaths due to COVID in 2020! Duck and cover! Hide in your homes! COVID-19 coming to a town near you!"
To which I say to you, sir.....
1. 345,323 / 328,000,000 is still 0.01%.
2. This does not identify people who have died OF COVID-19 vs. people who've died WITH COVID-19.
The damning stats here is that this page shows Cancer and heart disease, and most other deaths as essentially flat. My question would be, how many of those COVID-19 deaths are attributed towards those suffering of a pre-existing condition?
Is COVID-19 real? Of course it is. I mean, it killed a whole 120 people of something in BC under the age of 60, right? So yeah, it's very real, but it's actually not that deadly, I'm sorry to tell you. Are people dying? yes? Are those deaths statistically impactful? I'll leave that to a mathematician to answer.
Lastly....are people just not allowed to die anymore (to steal a line from @LION ?)
It sounds cold, but fcuk me man, anyone past 80 is on borrowed time anyways. I hope I'm not when I'm 80, but I'm also not naïve, and neither are they.
Secondly, for those dying under the age of 80, and those few under the age of 60, your personal health plays the biggest role. I pride myself on my health, I battle for a high level of health and fitness daily, so I take a huge amount of offense to others in government telling me what do do to stay healthy when our whole medical system was not designed for people like me. Do I believe in vaccines? Yes. Do I trust these ones? I do. I got both jabs, and like every year, I also got my flu shots. All that said, it's my choice. My body. In Canada, this is a fundamental right.
If this virus were highly infectious (it is) and extremely deadly (sorry, numbers and stats don't lie, it's not), then I can tell you I'd be in favor of mandatory vaccinations. Current situation? I'm not in favor of segregation to achieve a vaccination goal that was already well on it's way to being reached. I don't believe the infringements on people's right to choose what they put into their bodies is worth it.
I'm numb from the hysterics; hysterics, scare tactics, and frankly, the fight to divide us.
Lastly, @mtkb - fair point on the suicide rate. There is an argument that fentanyl is going to kill people at an increasing rate with or without COVID-19 being a thing. I can absolutely buy into that. I've had one fentanyl experience, 2019. I crashed and woke up trail side with my shoulder in my chest cavity, shattered section of the humerus head (not even funny). At the medical clinic, instead of trying to reset it with me somewhat awake, they gave me an amount of fentanyl that was barely visible, the size of a grain of sand. I know, because they explained it all do me, and given my situation, hell yes give me the drug! I was completely unconscious inside of a minute of taking it, woke up with my shoulder visible to my right side. I can see why this stuff is so deadly.
I'll also PM you my private patio account to set you up. High season January through April, book early please.
I think one big thing that gets lost in this is not how many people are dying..
Its what is the long term effects of getting it on your body?
Will you lose your sense of taste forever?
Will your lungs be scarred and damged forever?
Heart and clotting issues down the road?
I think that is more the argument that people may not die but what are long term effects on your body if you do get it?
No one really knows at this point at its too early still to see what happens to people long term who did get it.
Its what is the long term effects of getting it on your body?
Will you lose your sense of taste forever?
Will your lungs be scarred and damged forever?
Heart and clotting issues down the road?
I think that is more the argument that people may not die but what are long term effects on your body if you do get it?
No one really knows at this point at its too early still to see what happens to people long term who did get it.
Dunno. I had it and all it gave me was an excuse to not go into the office for two weeks and mountain bike every day.
I kid but it’s true.
FYI @mtkb , your Joe Fortes admission details attached.
Attachments
That's the beauty of hindsight and the internet.I feel like the people complaining about government decisions now would be the same ones complaining if they just let it all ride and hoped for the best only to have a horrible result, saying the government didn’t do enough.
not you though @Dude.
I’m really in the middle of this argument. As it’s been said we don’t know what would of happened if we just continued to live. Sure 640,000 isn’t that significant I guess per capita. People die and i do agree there. If it’s double or triple how are we feeling? Sure still not huge but do we just ignore it.
I just find it amazing that I’m supposed to give a shite about your buddy who lost his business or someone that took their life due to depression from this but not about these other people. I’m sorry your wealthy friends can’t be wealthy now. Imagine that was my attitude. I’m supposed to care about some people but not others. I have a hard time justifying that. End of life is one thing but lots of people dying that had many years left too.
My feeling is and was the hospitals
Of course. If we let it run ramped and your son is an unfortunate case where it hits him hard do we have the room for him. Are we turning away 60 year olds and making life decisions like we are a third world country. I don’t know and can’t say the level of restrictions we needed from the off to prevent that stuff. Were the long term patients struggling getting the care?
This isn’t a black and white issue. It’s not that serious or it is. I’m not scared, I do understand a bit from both sides. I don’t understand not getting the vaccine honestly as an adult if you are able. Are you that scared of the health risk? I find that more sad then being petrified of Covid. I don’t think Covid is going away with or without the vaccines but science has come a long long way. We do understand many many years ago people needed to be the first to take vaccines too right? Grandparents were forced to fight in the war/wars right.
I don’t love this political decision. Travel and big sporting events make sense to me for vaccine proof. Restaurants I absolutely disagree with. But guess what vaccine registrations have now doubled. Why do people need to be threatened. Stop watching your conspiracy theory uneducated nonsense and get the diesel fuel in ya.
I just find it amazing that I’m supposed to give a shite about your buddy who lost his business or someone that took their life due to depression from this but not about these other people. I’m sorry your wealthy friends can’t be wealthy now. Imagine that was my attitude. I’m supposed to care about some people but not others. I have a hard time justifying that. End of life is one thing but lots of people dying that had many years left too.
My feeling is and was the hospitals
Of course. If we let it run ramped and your son is an unfortunate case where it hits him hard do we have the room for him. Are we turning away 60 year olds and making life decisions like we are a third world country. I don’t know and can’t say the level of restrictions we needed from the off to prevent that stuff. Were the long term patients struggling getting the care?
This isn’t a black and white issue. It’s not that serious or it is. I’m not scared, I do understand a bit from both sides. I don’t understand not getting the vaccine honestly as an adult if you are able. Are you that scared of the health risk? I find that more sad then being petrified of Covid. I don’t think Covid is going away with or without the vaccines but science has come a long long way. We do understand many many years ago people needed to be the first to take vaccines too right? Grandparents were forced to fight in the war/wars right.
I don’t love this political decision. Travel and big sporting events make sense to me for vaccine proof. Restaurants I absolutely disagree with. But guess what vaccine registrations have now doubled. Why do people need to be threatened. Stop watching your conspiracy theory uneducated nonsense and get the diesel fuel in ya.
That was maybe the most random post you've ever made. Where to begin...
1. Businesses. It’s funny how people have the notion that just because someone is a business owner, they MUST be wealthy. Usually this comes from those indoctrinated in the institutions known as government and/or union work. Reality has left the building. Truth is, the vast majority of businesses in Canada are small businesses, and most of those make enough to provide for their immediate orbits of their family. The businesses that have suffered most or are closing are those types…mom and pop shops, not Cactus Clubs with piles of cash to sustain tough times. Small coffee shops, smaller venue restaurants, even medium sized businesses like mine. I will tell you 100%, our business was in serious jeopardy last year of massive lay-offs, or worse. I don't mind admitting that federal subsidies saved us as well; we chassed some critical R&D funding, and were able to limit the real losses so as to not lay anyone off. The losses went from staggering to a number we can live with, all considered. The task of operating a business of 22 employees, and meeting payroll, becomes a difficult when the company is hemorrhaging money with a fraction of normal coming in. Those subsidies and R&D don’t kick in until AFTER you have spent money, too…so you need to leverage your holdings (if you have) and / or bank line to get there. Our business lost a boatload of money before we could re-coup a lot of the losses, enough to buy a small home in Greater Vancouver. Many businesses don’t have that capability of weathering the storm, or, are in businesses that are being held under. Mine, thankfully, is not currently being held down. Being in industry, the biggest issue I have is in 2021 (as opposed to 2020) is finding materials and labor. Others (small restaurants, mostly) just recently came up for air. Imagine being held down by a wave, and in the washing machine, unable to get a breath…that’s what many are going through. Some have taken their last breath. My oldest sister, a single mom of 2 teenagers, had her wedding planning / decorating business go completely in the toilet until this summer. She had to scramble and hustle in a couple of side gigs just to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. She just last weekend had her highest revenue weekend since her business came to a screaming halt March 2020, and now? Looks like it could come to a screaming halt again if further restrictions come in. How many small business owners, from restaurant owners, to people who run summer camps, retails stores (we know people, on this thread…) you name it, have lost not only their jobs, but in a lot of cases, their family legacies? The numbers are staggering.
This is where I have had a HUGE issue w/ the new trend of Virtue Signaling. I read a FB post recently that was written by a nurse I really respect and like on a personal level. She’s smart, articulate, and aims to inform. One of the things she recently wrote about was the extreme stress her profession was under, from doctors, to nurses and support staff. She spoke to the fact many nurses are getting out. Either retiring early, or finding other gigs that have less stress. Her main message was, “If you know anyone in this field, those people are not doing well, and to check in on them.” I suspect the extreme stress is true mostly for nurses, but I have no doubt the entire medical community- especially ER and those giving care in the hospitals, and retirement home caregivers - is under extreme stress. But you know what? So are soooo many others in our society! I mean, extreme stress! I have an honest question…knowing what we know now, what makes their stress higher than others? Stress is stress. Personally, my last year has been under more stress than any other time in my life. What makes a nurse- who, yes, has a stressful job, but in an industry with guaranteed salaries, and job security, where the biggest issue now is managing the administrative load they’ve had dumped on them, with endless extra shifts and new procedures and measures to follow- someone who’s stress matters more than mine? Mine is very different….my concern was keeping people employed, and the business a going concern. Yes, it was in our best future interest to find a way, but let me tell you, the fear in my employees eyes around their future was very real.
What makes a nurse’s stress any more valid than my sisters? Nobody was calling me to “check in” because I had stress, and that’s fine. I deal with my stress. Sometimes not well, but I deal with it. I don’t expect sympathy. Why should a nurse expect sympathy? This is the profession they chose. They got into this for several reasons (one being job security, it’s not all altruism, or they wouldn’t ask to be paid), and they are trained for extreme situations. You can’t just back out when the going gets tough in a profession that is, by definition, in existence for when the going gets tough. Are the stresses of people that have lost their jobs and businesses stresses somehow less important than a nurses? Frankly, I'm sick of the messaging that the stress being experienced front line workers like nurses are somehow more important than stress felt by everyone else.
I hope point made there. Yes, you should care.
2. Hospitals…I don’t know what to believe. A buddy of mine who sells artificial heart valves was in the Okanagan this week, says it’s pretty full with COVID cases, mostly unvaccinated. So, this tells me, shockingly, vaccines work. Who knew? He also said that yes, near capacity, but also, handling it. That’s a small scope though, I imagine the US is still under siege. I don’t think any hospital in Canada got to the point of having to “pick and choose”; I heard that was the case early in Italy, and I know it’s happening in India, where we are supplying air compressors for oxygen generators. Can’t guess any better than that. Do I want the facility available for my kid should he be one of the outlier healthy, young, double vaxxed adults needing attention? Of course I do, and I’m reasonably confident guessing that he won’t bump a 60 year old patient to receive his care. For me, I’m focused on Canada. I care about our laws, our rights, and the realities are, Canada has handled this pandemic well. I see these measures as heavy handed, and more important, a line has been crossed so far as our rights. Sure, many will say this strategy is working, vaccinations are up. I’ll try and remember that when the Cinema Nerd at the door asks me for my Vax Passport.
The stress of the daily job plus trying to avoid covid, and passing it on to other unhealthy or compromised people in the hospital unknowingly? A hospital of unwell people is probably the last place you’d want to start an outbreak.
having said that, my wife is at a dental office, in people’s mouths all day and I don’t feel that level of stress is there for her. They’ve always been at the highest level of cleanliness because of other health risks before Covid, I would hope hospitals are the same.
having said that, my wife is at a dental office, in people’s mouths all day and I don’t feel that level of stress is there for her. They’ve always been at the highest level of cleanliness because of other health risks before Covid, I would hope hospitals are the same.
Just a thought, maybe the stress level of nurses has something to do with watching people die, or even holding their hand while they take their last breath because their own family can't be there with them.
That feels like something that might be stressful, unless you're some kind of sociopath.
That feels like something that might be stressful, unless you're some kind of sociopath.
Hospitals are the safest indoor environments As far as air is concerned. More air changes, many areas with 100% fresh air supply, and critical areas with scan tested HEPA filtration.
Dental is actually the highest risk environment in terms of a workplace for the dentists and hygienists. Commercial level air and no source capture at the chair, for the most part.
Last edited:
This is their job. Happens daily. Not saying it’s not stressful, it is. People die in hospitals. Weird, I know.
My mum was a nurse, honestly I have a ton of empathy and respect for the profession prior to COVID. She was at Valleyview (the senior side of Riverview). Death was daily, and normal. So, maybe my perspective is different.
The whole virtue signaling act though, old. Enough.
Tell your missus to have the dentist invest in one of these and they'll be recirculating 99.99% pure air. I know the inventor pretty well.
I suspect seeing fear on the face of someone who is about to draw their last breath would be a uniquely stressful thing; I generally agree with Dude about all jobs having stress - believe me - but a steady parade of people struggling and then dying from Covid can't have been easy.
If it were actually a steady parade.
From that viewpoint, my suspicion is that being a nurse in one of those care-home outbreaks, especially early on when it seemed like groundhog day every day, would have been above and beyond stressful.
Yes, that's where I made the clear exception.
All this said, back to my point about stress....it's not like a human body recognizes between stress caused by your work conditions or events in your personal life, it's simply all stress, and we all have a bucket that, once filled, we're in trouble. Can I get on board with the idea that the Care-home nurse's job stress is higher? Yes. But, they have guaranteed job security. Even if they leave that nursing job, public nurses are in high demand right now, the stress of unemployment or lack of job security isn't a factor.
Back to my sister, I can 100% guarantee you that sitting in her shop making flower arrangements is not stressful; she loves her job. Her stress comes from having two teenaged kids, a dead-beat ex-husband that doesn't contribute, and now the extraordinary stresses of minimum income due to the COVID measures, credit stretched to the limit, and a mortgage to pay. She has been on the edge of personal bankruptcy for months. She is making it by, but not easily. No, she's not having to deal with staring into the eyes of death every day, but that doesn't matter. Stress is stress.
When a person reaches the breaking point, that's it. At this point it doesn't matter how, it just matters that it happened. Anyone who has lost someone close to suicide can surely empathize and understand.
So, when people minimize the amount of stress small business people are under, yeah sure as fcuk I take that very personally. There is no good argument that says their stress is less meaningful than a nurses stress. That's why I get defensive and fire back.
I really hope you sister can pull thru and get thru this @Dude. I really hope her kids are taking it well. It is not a easy thing on them.
Being the child of a immigrant mill worker i was used to the ups and downs of layoffs in the 80s in the forest sector and believe me i would not want any kid to feel the stress of parents losing work. Kids feel it and its horrible.
This is the other side of the pandemic we dont see as much. The impact of restrictions on families and small business. We can close down and put on mandates to protect the health system but on the other side there is a business and family that then struggles to pay bills. Horrible no matter which way you look at. Every action has a reaction.
Thats why the faster we can get past this the better it is for everyone.
There will be a huge economic boom once this is over but some may not last financially to make up for what was lost. I hope your sister makes it thru and does better than ever.
Being the child of a immigrant mill worker i was used to the ups and downs of layoffs in the 80s in the forest sector and believe me i would not want any kid to feel the stress of parents losing work. Kids feel it and its horrible.
This is the other side of the pandemic we dont see as much. The impact of restrictions on families and small business. We can close down and put on mandates to protect the health system but on the other side there is a business and family that then struggles to pay bills. Horrible no matter which way you look at. Every action has a reaction.
Thats why the faster we can get past this the better it is for everyone.
There will be a huge economic boom once this is over but some may not last financially to make up for what was lost. I hope your sister makes it thru and does better than ever.
Members online
No members online now.
Latest posts
-
-
-
2024 BC Masters Provincial A Cup - Predictions, Results & Banter- Latest: Rangerforever
-
-
-
-
-
