NHL Lockout 2004

[striker14]

Whatever happened to the days when a hockey player had to go to school for a second career? Ken Dryden (goalie for Montreal Canadians) became a lawyer. Bobby Orr also has a second career. I hate this garbage of a professional player retiring set-for-life and nearly going to jail like OJ Simpson!

In closing, hockey can go to hell!

Why have a 2nd job when you make MILLIONS of dollars?? Give your head a shake!! Even if they are out for a season, they are still rollin' in it....

Don't worry...the tailgate to the wagon is always open for you to jump back on when you're done whining!

striker14

forchristmasiwillgetmyhockeyteambackontheice...ihavebeenagoodgirl

 

[White Knight]

Why have a 2nd job when you make MILLIONS of dollars?? Give your head a shake!! Even if they are out for a season, they are still rollin' in it....

You're missing the point of my argument, Striker14. Do you think that it's fair for these professional athletes to make MILLIONS of dollars, when the average professional in Canada is lucky if they can make $50000? And, if the NHL players don't play the season due to the strike, why do they get paid? 6 years ago, my Dad retired from the BC Lumber industry. When he was on strike the Union paid him Strike Pay. In the NHL the players get paid by the owners regardless of whether they play hockey! Too bad that MacMillan Bloedel (now Wayerhauser) doesn't pay their employees that way!

Don't worry...the tailgate to the wagon is always open for you to jump back on when you're done whining!

I think that I have a right to complain (whine)! Do you make MILLIONS of Dollars per season at your job? Are you a professional athlete?

 

[trece verde]

1) Players are paid corresponding to the number of seats they put into the seats, or the amount of revenue they generate for their teams. This means that the owner of a team has decided that a player is worth this amount, and will pay him this much to avoid him becoming a free agent so he can be paid more by another owner. This has nothing to do at all with what individuals in other professions are being paid; the overwhelming majority of them don't generate anywhere near as much revenue for their employers as professional athletes do. If you're not willing to pay an athlete $5 million a year to play hockey, somebody else will be.

2) The NHL players are not on strike; this situation is a lockout. Minor difference there. As far as I know, the only players still being paid from their contracts by the owners were those who were recovering from injuries; the rest were being paid at strike pay rates by the Players' Association, as Striker 14 had mentioned earlier (just like White Knight Senior had been when he was on strike with the IWA).

3) We all have a right to whinge about the loss of our national pastime and an intrinsic part of our culture, and about the stubborn individuals on both sides who don't seem to want to negotiate a settlement to this apparent impasse. Personally, I don't begrudge anybody becoming a millionaire (as long as it isn't coming directly out of my tax dollars) by exploiting somebody else's willingness to pay them that much for a talent based essentially on how well they can entertain others. Not many of us can play a sport at that level, even though there's a few folks on here who have come close. Do you begrudge musicians and actors what they make as well? They're basically doing the same thing: being paid what the market will bear for entertaining others.

4) Striker: don't think WK will be jumping on the tailgate any time soon. I've had this conversation with him before; he's not a hockey fan, and hasn't been for several years (see "hockey can go to hell" quote). Personally, I miss my NHL fix, and would like it to come back too, so I don't agree with him, and will give him a two-hander the next time I see him.

5) Interesting to see if the owners take the players' latest offer seriously. Listening to Brian Burke on his wife's show at lunch today; he still feels Gary Bettman is in control of the situation. Feeling is that Bettman has to come up with a counter-proposal before the end of next week to not lose points in the PR battle.

If these are interesting times, they sure suck.....

stew

 

[hammerhead]

Im just glad the bastards are finally talking.

I think this offer from the NHLPA shows that they are serious about getting back to it. The deal addresses a few things that should have been done years ago, like teams being able to take under performing highly paid players to arbitration, and the 24 % cut is a big gesture. Im also surprised that the free agency age wasnt dropped from 31 where it is now.
Im curious what the leagues counter will be.....

 

[Dapotayto]

It seems more than a few of the players were stunned to hear of the 24% pay-cut offer by the union. They are, of course, saying the 'right' things in public, but I have a feeling they may be expressing some different opinions behind closed doors.

Personally I feel there has to be a hard salary cap (and a luxury tax is far too wishy-washy, so forget it). I do not say this because I think players make far too much (they do, but so do owners and all off the back of the hockey fan) but because the league needs a better competitive balance. Vancouver can only dream of winning a championship in the current set-up. Their budget limits the size and quality of the team compared to Detroit, Colorado, New York and others who can afford a much larger payroll and thus better players and a deeper squad. Yes, I realize Calgary went to the final last year and Anaheim before that but shoving horseshoes up your entire teams' asses tends to hurt and is a one-time gig. One only needs to look at at the NFL to see true parity and competitiveness within a league employing a salary cap. Any number of teams, small market or big market, have a chance of winning the title.

Honestly, I don't give a shite if they ever play hockey again, but until they do I can't go back to ignoring Cloutier at Urban Fare or Bertuzzi at the Quayside.

 

[striker14]

You're missing the point of my argument, Striker14. Do you think that it's fair for these professional athletes to make MILLIONS of dollars, when the average professional in Canada is lucky if they can make $50000? And, if the NHL players don't play the season due to the strike, why do they get paid? 6 years ago, my Dad retired from the BC Lumber industry. When he was on strike the Union paid him Strike Pay. In the NHL the players get paid by the owners regardless of whether they play hockey! Too bad that MacMillan Bloedel (now Wayerhauser) doesn't pay their employees that way!


I think that I have a right to complain (whine)! Do you make MILLIONS of Dollars per season at your job? Are you a professional athlete?

Sure you have a right to complaing (whine) but I also have the right to tell you that as a HUGE Hockey Fan...there is nothing worse than people like yourself that come on here saying shite like "hockey can go to hell" when it ain't around...and then turn around and see fcukers like you on Robson waving a Canuck Flag that you just bought at the local corner store, after they win a game!!

Stew did mention that you aren't a hockey fan, so my question is this:

If you aren't a hockey fan...stay out of the HOCKEY forum!!

striker14

it'smonday

 

[Regs]

Anyone else have an extreme dislike for Bettman and the way he presents himself? Fcuk me, what a tool!

I'm slowly sliding over to the players side in this dispute. It doesn't appear that the owners want to take ANY responsibility in the way things have gone over the years in the last CBA.

Why hasn't anyone brought up the fact that the NHL has virtually no TV deal to infuse money into the teams? Who's at fault there?

One of the Sportsnet Hockey Gurus mentioned last night how the NHL's proposed entry-level system would pretty much wipe out the hockey player agent industry... where exactly are they trying to go with all of this?

The NHL is over.



~Regs.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

I'm slowly sliding over to the players side in this dispute. It doesn't appear that the owners want to take ANY responsibility in the way things have gone over the years in the last CBA.

I think that the majority of owners are finally sticking up against the minority of idiots who were responsible for the payrolls spinning out of control. I mean, what a hypocrite Glen Sather is when you compare his rhetoric during his time in Edmonton with his rhetoric as the Rangers' GM.

I agree that the 24% rollback sounds great, but it's not going to solve the problem of the 4-5 owners who will simply continue to outspend all the have nots because they can. Other teams will be forced to hike up their slaraies again. Salary Cap needed. End of discussion.

One of the Sportsnet Hockey Gurus mentioned last night how the NHL's proposed entry-level system would pretty much wipe out the hockey player agent industry... where exactly are they trying to go with all of this?

The Canucks lost a first rounder, RJ Umberger, because they wouldn't pay this unproven kid a million plus per season. Think of the Lindros fiasco. What about all the Alexandre Daigles. They earned their millions "developing," in the AHL, right? If they don't put a reasonable cap on entry level players, then these players will just hold out and threaten to re-enter the draft or play for someone else who will pay that money. Agents? C'mon Regs. I know it's a movie, but Jerry Maguire paints a nice picture of what agents are all about.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Just ask Striker 14: she knows all about being desperate.

 

[suburbanator]

Would be nice to get rid of Bettman, I think his time in this market is done. The NHL under his guidance has been a partial failure.

I understand that the owners need some assurances for the future but Bettman makes it sound like they need to score a home run. He's almost as uncool on the TV as Jean Cretien.

Anyhow instead of settling this a few months back and probably losing 2-3 teams I bet they lose 5-6 over the next 5 years since the USA does not wait around for sports to return.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

One last thing, Regs...about the TV contract. Bettman has been able to get more hockey exposure on US networks than any of his predecessors. It's not his fault that there is no interest from American networks to pony up money for a product that people are not going to tune in and watch. All the more reason that hockey players need to get their heads out of their asses and realise that they are not deserving of the money they are currently "earning."

 

[girth]

It's obvious that these two sides are far apart and hockey may never completely be the same for those that have little patience like myself. That being said lock the fcukers out for the remainder of time and let guys like Linden work the drive thru at Timmy Hortons to appreciate what they had. I would love to see what these guys career paths would be if hockey just ended? Bertuzzi strikes me as a bouncer at a night club type. Naslund would be a swedish hand model. Sopel would be a bar manager at the Ivanhoe. Marc crawford would make a great opera singer. Any other guys?

 

[STD]

The twins would make good special Olympic poster boys.
Ruttu would be in prison.
Malik could do big and tall advertisements.
Dan the man could be the guy choking in a first aid commercial.

 

[suburbanator]

Bertuzzi strikes me as a bouncer at a night club type. Naslund would be a swedish hand model. Sopel would be a bar manager at the Ivanhoe. Marc crawford would make a great opera singer. Any other guys?

Bert is in the right province for his alter proffesion, after all we have lots of tree's for him to chop down.

As for the mass of Swedes, sounds like a Gay Swedish Massage Parlor soon to open at GM Place. Aptly a ackronym for Gay Massage Place.

I can also see Ohlund doubling as a Workers Comp Eye Safety Consultant.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

I think Linden can organize traffic stoppages in the name of "Equal Rights for Divorced Men." I can see him raising the ERDM banner to the rafters of the Lions Gate Bridge.

 

[sensei_hanson]

Bettman did an excellent job of turning the rollback into a rallying point for the smaller-salaried players. By staggering the rates according to how much dough you pull in, he keeps the minions who are already complaining about being neglected by their union (like Mike Commodore, who should be thanking his lucky stars he's not selling snowboard boots at the moment) by offering them a smaller pay cut to return to work.

They can have all these delusions of grandeur with regards to being anti-cap, but all the NHLPA has done is set itself up for a major fall when they're going to be forced to sign a deal that includes a cap, and perhaps a significant salary rollback to boot.

They're going to sit out over a full year and have that rollback come to bite them all in the collective ass. Bettman will just take his time and get them capped, come hell or high water. If anything, he could still pretend to "cave" by eliminating all rollbacks in an future CBA and just implement a cap. Either way, the NHLPA is fcuked, and the owners end up getting what they want. Half the time I don't even think Linden believes the garbage he's spewing out (he's Goodenow's personal hand puppet), especially when two viable leagues (NFL and NBA) have really moved to the econimic forefront under their "systemic financial structures".

I just can't see how anybody can look at the NHL over the past 10 years, and revel in how successful the league has been financially. At least not to the point where guys are willing to throw out a full season of hockey just to see the current financial system stay in place.

 

[Regs]

Again though, where is the acknowledgement of the owners taking some of the responsibility?

You mention about American apathy in terms of TV viewing... who was the idiot that came up with the idea of expansion into the sun-belt? Hello?

OK, let's say they put a hard-cap eventually in place. How much rediculous amounts of money will the Rangers make? Will any of that get shared? If so, how will it be divided up, especially since there shouldn't be a single owner losing money in the proposed system?

What about ticket prices? Think those will go down long-term?

Discuss.

 

[sensei_hanson]

It's almost too technical to discuss. You have to start looking at what streams of income play into revenue sharing. Like, do concessions, merchandise and parking figures go into that? Or does revenue simply account for television contract earnings teammed with ticket sales?

This is where the NFL has run into trouble, especially with luxury boxes and suites. Because these are often tied into stadium earnings (depending upon whether the stadium is owned by the team owner, or the city/district/municipality), they aren't included in revenue sharing. For instance, the Redskins have a larger source of income compared to other NFL franchises as they have the most suites available for purchase, and they're some of the most expensive in the league. All the revenue gained from luxury suites in RFK has allowed Snyder to give players MASSIVE signing bonuses, meaning they sign for smaller salaries to stay under the cap. So the 'Skins worked the system, so to speak. Keep in mind they're still shite.

The problem the NHL faces now is that they can't really speculate as to what level of collective bargaining a salary cap would produce, because they can't even get the idea of a salary cap on the table.

The players though the rollback would somehow alleviate all the internal problems of a free-market system. What a disaster. It's the equivalent of eliminating MC Hammer, Screech, Bill Clinton, Waterworld, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles and the Gulf War, and asking to "go back and give the 90s another shot, but this time, do them properly."

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Again though, where is the acknowledgement of the owners taking some of the responsibility?

Regs...there are only a handful of owners who are to blame. Others were given no choice but to follow. It's like a card game where someone keeps trying to buy the pot. You've got no choice but to continue matching raises or you lose your bets by default.

I think it's time fans took the responsibility as well. They are the ones who were willing to pay the exorbitant amounts of $$ for tickets. They are the ones who tell ownership to "stop being cheap and pay the Bertuzzis of the world $7million per season. They are the ones who recently packed the Coliseum to see a game as exciting as a scrimmage . They are the ones who gave Bertuzzi a standing ovation for breaking someone's neck.

You mention about American apathy in terms of TV viewing... who was the idiot that came up with the idea of expansion into the sun-belt? Hello?

Anaheim was a gamble after the movie was a success, but if the Disney people say they want a team, what moron is going to say no? Because if there is one thing Disney sucks at it's marketing! It's too bad every coach they get plays the trap.

Phoenix is one of the fastest growing cities in the States. They should be fine with their new stadium.

Florida is a huge, huge market. Again, if you can tap into a market that size, there's got to be huge potential for profits. Too bad people would rather watch Jai Alai. However, when you put a decent product on the ice like they did in Tampa, people will pay attention.

Where should have they expanded other than nowhere?

OK, let's say they put a hard-cap eventually in place. How much rediculous amounts of money will the Rangers make? Will any of that get shared? If so, how will it be divided up, especially since there shouldn't be a single owner losing money in the proposed system?

Who cares how much they make and who says they should share it? Does Starbucks share its profits with Blenz? Maybe an apples to oranges comparison, but if they can run a profitable team, God bless them! It's a business and they have an expectation to make money. Why should they share it with someone who maybe doesn't market their team or run it as effectively?

Bottom line...even with all the money they make, they still only have a certain amount of $$ to pick a team...just like everyone else.

 

[Regs]

I disagree to agree.

Someone start a Canadian National Hockey League, leave the NHL & American expansion to the idiots in New York.

What would stop the NHLPA from starting up their own league?

~Regs.

 

[striker14]

They are the ones who gave Bertuzzi a standing ovation for breaking someone's neck.

B R U T A L !!! Uncalled for comment...get your head outta your arse!

proceed...