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I am just going to repeat now what I aleady said before:
1. HPL does not make any sense at all and I have been saying that from day one (since I heard about that idea).
2. I do understand that a lot of volunteer coaches accepted the idea (hoping to finally get a paid coaching position and I could not be happier for some good guys out there who have been busting their butts for years coaching for free just for the love of soccer) but they do not understand something very important: "Big Bob" will continue pushing for "his staff" to get these paid positions as it has always been. What will be really lef to for those good guys I mentioned?
3. HPL is about money, money, money and nothing else! We have already organized youth soccer leagues so if something could/should have been changed that is the calendar (start season ealy March and play until end of October/November) and ridiculous out-of-district rule. Why this has not been done? Obviously, there is really no money in the current youth system and BCSA wants a full control of money so let's organize HPL, label it as the highest possible youth soccer level, and charge "an arm and a leg" for it.
4. Does anyone remember Intra-Provincial league that was active several years ago (just before Y-league was brought to BC)? That is exactly today's HPL with one big difference: instead of paying only some minor expenses (as it was the case with IPL) the parents will now be forced to pay thousands of dollars so their kids can play at the "highest" level!? Provincial program has always been expensive. Did all the best players really play for provincial team? No, not all of them! Why? Beside the politics the next reason is listed under #5.
5. One of the biggest issues I have with HPL is the cost. When you have such a program that will be out of reach for a lot of people the question is: Who will play in HPL? Obviously, there will be some great players whose parents can afford HPL but there will be a lot of great players (I believe at least 50% of the talent pool, maybe even more) that will avoid playing in HPL due to the cost. What does that mean? We will not have the highest quality in HPL; it will be split between HPL and Select leagues. So, what is the purpose?
I am afraid that HPL will cause that a lot of good (remaining select) players quit playing soccer becuase the quality of their league will water down.
Those "brainiacs" who came with the "great" HPL idea have to understand something. There is no soccer culture and interest in Canada that will support expensive ideas. Nowhere in the rest of the World soccer is built by charging an arm and a leg for it. It is always based on the quantity (number of players; which is obviously not a problem in Canada) which leads to quality and then comes the system where the best of the best are chosen by pro and semi-pro clubs to play for their youth teams (where the cost is covered by those clubs which hope to develop enough good players which, after that, becomes a very lucrative business).
Until pro clubs in Canada develop a system in which they would fully cover the cost for their youth system (and that way attract the best youth soccer players) there will be no soccer success in this country. How many real soccer pro clubs we have in Canada? Yeah, you're right! None! So, why some people are ready to fork out thousands of dollars on HPL is beyond me.
Canada does not have a pro soccer league (or clubs) so the only way to get soccer to the next level is through rich sponsors who would support HPL teams, Provincial team, and Y-league teams. Nothing else will help.
1. HPL does not make any sense at all and I have been saying that from day one (since I heard about that idea).
2. I do understand that a lot of volunteer coaches accepted the idea (hoping to finally get a paid coaching position and I could not be happier for some good guys out there who have been busting their butts for years coaching for free just for the love of soccer) but they do not understand something very important: "Big Bob" will continue pushing for "his staff" to get these paid positions as it has always been. What will be really lef to for those good guys I mentioned?
3. HPL is about money, money, money and nothing else! We have already organized youth soccer leagues so if something could/should have been changed that is the calendar (start season ealy March and play until end of October/November) and ridiculous out-of-district rule. Why this has not been done? Obviously, there is really no money in the current youth system and BCSA wants a full control of money so let's organize HPL, label it as the highest possible youth soccer level, and charge "an arm and a leg" for it.
4. Does anyone remember Intra-Provincial league that was active several years ago (just before Y-league was brought to BC)? That is exactly today's HPL with one big difference: instead of paying only some minor expenses (as it was the case with IPL) the parents will now be forced to pay thousands of dollars so their kids can play at the "highest" level!? Provincial program has always been expensive. Did all the best players really play for provincial team? No, not all of them! Why? Beside the politics the next reason is listed under #5.
5. One of the biggest issues I have with HPL is the cost. When you have such a program that will be out of reach for a lot of people the question is: Who will play in HPL? Obviously, there will be some great players whose parents can afford HPL but there will be a lot of great players (I believe at least 50% of the talent pool, maybe even more) that will avoid playing in HPL due to the cost. What does that mean? We will not have the highest quality in HPL; it will be split between HPL and Select leagues. So, what is the purpose?
I am afraid that HPL will cause that a lot of good (remaining select) players quit playing soccer becuase the quality of their league will water down.
Those "brainiacs" who came with the "great" HPL idea have to understand something. There is no soccer culture and interest in Canada that will support expensive ideas. Nowhere in the rest of the World soccer is built by charging an arm and a leg for it. It is always based on the quantity (number of players; which is obviously not a problem in Canada) which leads to quality and then comes the system where the best of the best are chosen by pro and semi-pro clubs to play for their youth teams (where the cost is covered by those clubs which hope to develop enough good players which, after that, becomes a very lucrative business).
Until pro clubs in Canada develop a system in which they would fully cover the cost for their youth system (and that way attract the best youth soccer players) there will be no soccer success in this country. How many real soccer pro clubs we have in Canada? Yeah, you're right! None! So, why some people are ready to fork out thousands of dollars on HPL is beyond me.
Canada does not have a pro soccer league (or clubs) so the only way to get soccer to the next level is through rich sponsors who would support HPL teams, Provincial team, and Y-league teams. Nothing else will help.
RL RCL I do not agree with you. Yes coaches want to be paid. As you know it is going to be the same coaches as we have in SYL and Select program. You and I know it's a boddy system. The only reason I agree with it better players will be there. We will also know who they are in both reasons.
Remeber one thing. Caps will still take the best athleticly capable player and try to teach him or her some skill. The player can come from Gold, MSL or HPL. Every soccer chool coast money.
There is lots of trees in the mountains. They are just comming out. It is good for all. Everyody has a choyse. You can do what ever you choose. I see it as extra 80 kids have moved up to better development. No garantee any will make it to upper clubs. At least Board members are trying to stay with rest of the country and White Caps.
Remeber one thing. Caps will still take the best athleticly capable player and try to teach him or her some skill. The player can come from Gold, MSL or HPL. Every soccer chool coast money.
There is lots of trees in the mountains. They are just comming out. It is good for all. Everyody has a choyse. You can do what ever you choose. I see it as extra 80 kids have moved up to better development. No garantee any will make it to upper clubs. At least Board members are trying to stay with rest of the country and White Caps.
bettermirror
New Member
So RCD, I guess it is safe to say you won't be placing your kid in, going to attend, or if offered accepting a position with any BCPL franchise eh?
For the record - most of your points are completely out to lunch except one. Elite soccer, and elite sports in general should be free or very near it. But it is not the reality in this country without significant financial adaptations.
For the record - most of your points are completely out to lunch except one. Elite soccer, and elite sports in general should be free or very near it. But it is not the reality in this country without significant financial adaptations.
I agree completely with what RCD says. He's not remotely out to lunch - he has nailed it bang on and anyone holding the contrary view is going to have a ton of egg on their face when the best talent turns its nose up at the league.
However, if the HPL group finds a way to make the league much more affordable to the parents, and does it at the front end, not only do I think the league is viable, I also think it could be an improvement on the status quo... I understand that they are working hard on the issue, and although I wish they had made it an earlier priority, the focus is better late than never!
However, if the HPL group finds a way to make the league much more affordable to the parents, and does it at the front end, not only do I think the league is viable, I also think it could be an improvement on the status quo... I understand that they are working hard on the issue, and although I wish they had made it an earlier priority, the focus is better late than never!
RC RLD thanks for you comment. No I will not spend my time on HPL. Passive people turn out passive players. I like the oposite. Kids that I turn out will go in hurd get the ball and move it. No dancing for ten secks before a pass. Free HPL you must be from a Comunist Country. No one gives you nothing for free. Only in those Countries they steal from ten to give to top one. MSL is good enough for any good player. System of development is ten years behind here or more.
Stop by Caps office and talk to head guys. They will tell you our right ,kids are not good enough.
Stop by Caps office and talk to head guys. They will tell you our right ,kids are not good enough.
bettermirror
New Member
MTKB - are you aware of the numbers attending SYL Tryouts? Sorry, but I think you guys are jumping on the pessism cart before the horse. You want it to be the best, so why not provide some solutions rather than arguments about why it will fail?
Do you have an idea on how to make it more affordable and viable? Are you as scornful to other elite leagues in other sports who charge much more than BCPL would/does?
Do you have an idea on how to make it more affordable and viable? Are you as scornful to other elite leagues in other sports who charge much more than BCPL would/does?
TulioMaravilha
Active Member
I know I shouldn't bother but I can't resist...Besides it's a slow day at work.
Given that Base sounds like he has inside knowledge on what kind of player the Whitecaps are interested in (implying that we with short kids in our team shouldn't even bother telling them to aspire to get there, no matter how technically gifted they are), I decided to do my homework and see if I could validate his claims.
So, I went to the 'caps website and pulled info on every player signed, in camp and in residency and crunched some numbers.
How surprised was I (NOT!!) to see that the average height of all players (excluding GKs) is a meagre 5'11" (average weight 165lbs).
In fact, 60% of all players listed are under 6' and around a quarter of them are under 5'9", hardly a team of behemoths.
Actually there are more players 5'9" and under than 6'2" and over.
Conclusion: surprise, surprise, it seems that outside of GKs (obviously) the 6'4" players Base so much likes are not really making the team in great numbers.
Now, I can bet that ALL of them, regardless of height, are technically capable, can play the game already and do not need to "be taught some skills".
Now, someone else pick from there and let me how many of those have last names ending in IC.
TulioMaravilha
Active Member
Hi D.
Yup, but apparently CSA guys don't share Base's enthusiasm with the physical attributes of their guys and instead of telling us how many inches we had on competition, focused on the minor detail that the boys managed to get a spot in the FIFA U-17 World Cup. Who cares how well they play? 11 Shaqs in the pitch, that would be a sight to behold. ;-)
Give me patience...
Yup, but apparently CSA guys don't share Base's enthusiasm with the physical attributes of their guys and instead of telling us how many inches we had on competition, focused on the minor detail that the boys managed to get a spot in the FIFA U-17 World Cup. Who cares how well they play? 11 Shaqs in the pitch, that would be a sight to behold. ;-)
Give me patience...
Tulio your inches must be short. I am glad that the boys got in. Short one got cut just before the tournament. Get your fax. All darn well six foot boys. One 5'9 and one 5'10. They were lucky with the draw. First country they played was a lough. 8 zip for our boys. Tell you only one thing. Cap players and Toronto players play year around. Shape is a huge factor. The test starts now,to see if the lads can win a game. It was mostly Jason Bents guys and Datchman from Caps on our U17 side. All fully game fit. Read the chart on player size you might be surprized. Take a look on a U-tube last two games Caps played and you will see what size and speed does. Games are twice the pace Caps used to play.
The simple solution is to lower the amount the coaches are being paid. Its not that I have a principled objection to the coaches being compensated - its that I have a principled objection to the costs being passed on to the parents. Either get the sponsorship money at the front end, or cap the amounts clubs can pay their technical staff until such time as the costs arent all going to be on the parents.
Is HPL about serving the elite player, or just the affluent, elite player? I would like to think it is the former. Let's make it so.
I realize I am spitting into the wind on this, and I should make it very clear that I am espousing my own personal views, and not speaking for any club who's board I sit on... Please do not misunderstand me as someone who wants HPL to fail - I would like it to succeed, and succeed in exactly the way it is supposed to - improve the soccer playing experience of every player who is good enough to play at the elite level...
TulioMaravilha
Active Member
May I be naive and ask where does it say that it is mandatory for BCPL clubs to pay coaches x number of dollars or even to charge parents such and such amount? As far as I know, there is a loose assumption that, in order to secure the services of a good (professional) coach for the (mandated) 3-4 times per week, clubs would have to pay and costs would be comensurate to Selects + SYL. Now, if a club is lucky enough to have volunteer coaches of a high quality who are willing to donate the hours, couldn't they charge whatever they estimate as necessary just to cover their (lower) cost to deliver their program?
So here's my recipe for Bby,mtkb: since you already have a good program in place that works for MSL, what's preventing you guys to just move the boys up to BCPL and do exactly the same that you were doing before, including cost for parents?
So here's my recipe for Bby,mtkb: since you already have a good program in place that works for MSL, what's preventing you guys to just move the boys up to BCPL and do exactly the same that you were doing before, including cost for parents?
mtkb HPL coaches will make less then 500.00 per month. Only head coach might make 10 000.00 You guys are paying your guys more. As we all can see in last U17 games there was five guys from your program.
We all know the game well. Thre trouble is in places to play in at the end of it all. In orther for HPL and MSL and residency to grow. Pro clubs are needed even if they are div two. With out Victoria Calgary, Winapag, Ottawa and Hamilton. Kids have no place to go localy. Lets face it if you take two out of 15 guys on your residency you have done well. Rest of the kids are left out. In my opinion Caps should add two clubs in NASL to be able to place and sell the players. Owners have money. Even Canucks owners would go in with a proper partner. Game is growing now. All we need is few guys to step forward and open the doors to bigger and better soccer. All jokes a side. HPL will turn out just as good players out. Those kids will be over looked due to residency acadamy program, only due to upper connections.
We all know the game well. Thre trouble is in places to play in at the end of it all. In orther for HPL and MSL and residency to grow. Pro clubs are needed even if they are div two. With out Victoria Calgary, Winapag, Ottawa and Hamilton. Kids have no place to go localy. Lets face it if you take two out of 15 guys on your residency you have done well. Rest of the kids are left out. In my opinion Caps should add two clubs in NASL to be able to place and sell the players. Owners have money. Even Canucks owners would go in with a proper partner. Game is growing now. All we need is few guys to step forward and open the doors to bigger and better soccer. All jokes a side. HPL will turn out just as good players out. Those kids will be over looked due to residency acadamy program, only due to upper connections.
islandsoccer
New Member
no new news on the MSL front? Has any decision been made as to what Cup play they will be going after? Who will be the Lower Mainland B Cup contestants? MSL or Greater Vancouver Gold-1?
bettermirror
New Member
MSL and probably Gold will compete for the B Cup by all accounts. There is discussion of the "best" of those teams being able to compete in some sort of preliminary cup to be able to then compete for the A Cup. I guess the question would be "If they crash out of the Prelim cup can they play B Cup still?" I am sure the answer would be yes. I think it would then be a qualifier against the lower-end BCPL teams for the A-Cup proper?? It's a worthy situation to examine, but I wonder how it will work considering the differences in league season.
bettermirror
New Member
You want Third Tier teams to compete for the "A" cup??? Keep in mind base, the BEST Gold teams will be moving up to MSL. Gold will be nothing more than Silver is now. Especially if some BCPL level kids can't or don't want to play in the summer, they will play MSL not Gold. If they continue with soccer. Gold pretty much has B cup or lower only.
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