Fcuk the NDP

[bulljive]

I think the real issue is say public doesn't know what the fcuk they are talking about. Teachers starting pay is in the low $40,000 range. They are also taking 3-4 years to get full time positions so it's no short road to get to that $70,000 range.

We as public are paying for the public school system which needs to be improved. They need more support if all of these Children that have learning disabilities and mental disabilities are to be with said "normal" children. Which I'm sure anyone with a the latter will tell you they want them in a regular classroom.

Where can said money come from? By reducing the amount of money subsidized in said elite private schools where parent spend top dollar to give their kids the best education and essentially keep them away from said special needs children. I don't know why that's not the main stream angle the teachers are pushing. Most of the public doesn't even know the government is subsidizing private schools.

 

[Regs]

Public may not know what it is talking about if only because for some odd reason, they are not being fed factual data perhaps?

One thing that has always bugged me is this whole notion that teachers haven't had a raise in eons. Fact is, they are on a salary grid so every "step" along the way, a teacher does in fact get a "raise"

Here's an article published in 2.5 years ago that helps explain:

http://citycaucus.com/2012/03/salary-grids-ensure-pay-increases-for-teachers-despite-net-zero/

When it comes to trends in compensation, it's hard to make a case that B.C. teachers have been shortchanged. For the period 2006-11, the minimum pay boost for BCTF members was 14 per cent, while the maximum percentage increase was about 21 per cent. These pay hikes either match or exceed those garnered by most private sector workers in the province.

The salary grid also provides automatic salary increases year over year for accumulated teaching experience to a maximum of 10 years. These are referred to as "Steps" in the grid. Steps begin at 0 and end at 10 years. So a teacher starting last September would see the following increases to their pay over 10 years of teaching:

• Based on the 2010-2011 salary grid in Vancouver a beginning teacher at Level 5 Step 0 would earn $48, 083.
• By 2021 this same teacher would have received automatic salary increases that average about 4.5% per year.
• In 10 years his or her salary would have increased by about 55% to $74,353.

The above doesn't even bring benefits into the equation.

 

[bulljive]

Regs, I believe Elementary teachers get less money (not 100% sure) and I think its Elementary more then High school where the classroom composition is the real issue. Teachers start at about $45,000 from the Grid for 2014 and as I said most aren't walking into full time jobs. For me Teachers should never get paid over $75,000, quite simply they don't work enough. I even feel that's quite generous. How ever when you take into account 5 years of education, 3 years of subbing, its more like 18 years before they reach that $75,000.

I also have a hard time understanding how a Masters degree to teach history or science really makes you a better teacher and deserving of more money when really you are teaching a designated curriculum for the most part. To me that's a strain on funds more then a benefit to the children. Yes I understand a lot do it to go into admin.

I'm not crazy pro teacher here, in fact if anything I'm the other way but do feel the system needs improving and having a child I'd like to see that. I've had plenty of heated debates with my father, a 35 year retired teacher who gave a tonne back and in fact we had a few students live with us who were from broken and abusive homes for a few years. He would talk 99.9% of you under the table with your tid bits here and misinformation there. My dad would also beat up your dads...love you pops.

 

[Dude]

Well I'm exaggerating, but the truth is I get sick of all the whining and complaining about "how many hours" they work, and the stress. It's as if other professions don't have high work hours or stress associated with them. I honestly don't think a teacher would survive a week in our environment, where we seem constantly under the gun, and where 10-12 hour work days are a pretty normal thing.

So you have to spend some time after school marking papers...wow...that really is earth shattering...

 

[Rangerforever]

I honestly don't think a teacher would survive a week in our environment, where we seem constantly under the gun, and where 10-12 hour work days are a pretty normal thing.

Agreed.
That's because most teachers do nothing but take surfing vacations, hang out and ski in Whistler, and train for triathlons all the time while we working stiffs duke it out in the mud each day.

 

[Regs]

Agreed.
That's because most teachers do nothing but take surfing vacations, hang out and ski in Whistler, and train for triathlons all the time while we working stiffs duke it out in the mud each day.

Fcuk, don't get me started on guys like that RF!

PS. Enjoy your trip to London

 

[Dude]

Agreed.
That's because most teachers do nothing but take surfing vacations, hang out and ski in Whistler, and train for triathlons all the time while we working stiffs duke it out in the mud each day.

Well RF, if you work hard, you gotta play hard, eh? I still haven't been invited to that accountants gone wild trip to vegas, yet.

PS: I will be away 1st two weeks of October. Mountain bike vacation, I'm sure you understand.

 

[freddy]

You think your kids have it rough with the school thing. I suppose these kids are happy no one is on strike, but don't get a ride to school everyday.

http://thechive.com/2014/09/02/you-wont-believe-how-some-children-get-to-school-26-photos/

And, if that doesn't make you have an opinion,
http://thechive.com/2014/09/02/clear-a-path-everybody-lets-find-her-36-photos/

 

[Dude]

Nice Freddy, some great photos there, too. Saw that stuff live while riding in Peru, on a mountain bike vacation. Little villages at 12,000', where the school is a mud-hut, the teacher a missionary, the school day 2 hours cause the kids had chores.

We are quite entitled here, aren't we?

 

[freddy]

I went to Peru too, but I mostly just saw the hot women in bikinis and skimpy outfits.

 

[johnnybluenose]

We as public are paying for the public school system which needs to be improved. They need more support if all of these Children that have learning disabilities and mental disabilities are to be with said "normal" children. Which I'm sure anyone with a the latter will tell you they want them in a regular classroom.

Where can said money come from? By reducing the amount of money subsidized in said elite private schools where parent spend top dollar to give their kids the best education and essentially keep them away from said special needs children. I don't know why that's not the main stream angle the teachers are pushing. Most of the public doesn't even know the government is subsidizing private schools.

WTF are you on about!!?? I myself did grades 9-12 in private school after negotiating k-8 in "Inner City" Public Schools inside the Vancouver, Etobicoke ON and Surrey School Districts.

*Most* Independent Schools receive partial (up to but not more than 50% funding from Govt on a per pupil basis) and I don't pay any less Property Tax than my neighbors, what each independent school user can do, and depending on the school, is issue a charitable donations tax receipt... so I pay the same Property Tax but I have to pay my aftertax dollars to the school to get a tax receipt, which isn't to say I get that back, I get some of it back.

I paid almost $8,000 last year for my 6 year old to be in Grade 1 and my middle daughter to do part time "pre Kindergarten" amongst other 4 year olds. I got a charitable donations receipt for $3300. If I made $70,000 that means my taxes then apply to $66,700, as long as my math is right (Not an accountant and pay others to do my taxes)

So follow me here: My Kids' independent school is and is allowing me to:
1) Employing teachers outside the monopoly of the BCTF, ie Teachers not having to join a union (Yay Teachers!) )
2) My kids are not draining resources out of the BCEd system
3) I'm paying full pull on Civic Property Taxes
4) I get a pittance of a tax receipt vs my income tax

Now if you yank the ~80,000 kids in Private Schools and throw them into the BCEd system, how much does that cost the Govt and thus you the tax payer?

PLUS: There's a LOAD of Special needs kids in private school, affluent folks with special needs kids send them there for many reasons including actually having a voice when a teacher is goofing around, not having the TF there to fight on their behalf really drives positive outcomes when it omes to teacher behaviour... also Special Needs kids terminology also applies to kids who excel and need assistance to keep up as they move faster than the class, also a lot of kids in this system not in BCEd, I'd argue that the same parameters that the TF applies to all students vs BCed vs PS students would show that there's in fact more Special Needs kids in Private Schools.

Today's day 1 for my kids classes, I'm going to ask the missus to get a report for me on how many kids are in my kids grade 2 class and kindergarten class.

 

[Dude]

I'm stealing bits of that post, too. You are on a role.

Through this whole thing, we've decided we are going to go grovelling back to Southridge and see if they'll take our son for 11 & 12 the next two years. The list by now may be too long. For that honor it'll cost us ~$30K over the two years.

Or, three fewer mountain bike vacations.

And Freddy, don't know where you went, but Peruvian women are not known for their hotness, unless they are Agentinian women vacationing in Peru. In that case, they tend to be hot. There are a lot of Australians in Northern Peru beach towns, but no surprise there, they are like the brown rat. Some Aussies are hot, but all carry STDs, and you can get aids from them if you merely shake their hands. I hope this clears things up.

 

[freddy]

You are right. The women in Peru were not representative of the Chive chicks. And yes, the Argie women definitely were. Let the Boca Asses prevail.

 

[bulljive]

Yes JBN heard the argument. And figured you would come hot and bothered with one from your extremely biast point of view. personally my biast point of view is no funding should go to Private schools with religious connotations, which will set you off more I know.

The govt would have to come up with the money for the influx in kids, it's mandatory. However if you don't think the public school is good enough for little jimmy you can pay for it. My view. I got a feeling the elite still would.

 

[Rangerforever]

JBN - I didn't know William of Orange charged that much.
Interesting.

Speaking of paying, back to work now for the missus to go to Harrod's and my visit to Savile Row next week.

 

[johnnybluenose]

@bulljive - People of all stripes pick independent schools for a variety of reasons, religious and/or otherwise.
Perhaps a certain school doesn't have rules around tenure, and takes seriously into account teacher performance.
Perhaps there is a religious thing- hard to pray towards mecca if you're "disrupting class" at a BCEd School innit?
I took a bus to and from school, which made logistics around pre and post class VERY easy for a working Mom and Dad, even more so when my younger sis and bro had to let themselves in when I had graduated.
I previously went to an inner city school that had other issues at play which had nothing to do with the TF and School Funding, private school was a good way for my folks to remove me & siblings from that problem without having to list the house and move to another catchment area. Issues such as gangs, bullies and one specific TF related issue in that a problem teacher the school board and admins had no recourse over due to protection from his TF Liaison at the School.
Perhaps it's a safety issue, for instance Christy Clark's son- how do you think little Hamish would do in that environment? I bet the Parent Teacher meetings would be a sight to see, what if you're the senior leader of some contentious company advancing a contentious project, such as Northern Gateway, or the son of a lawyer defending a serial killer?

If you made the same argument towards Catholic and Christian high schools you're lauded as "Progressive" or "Liberal" if you make the same argument about the Khalsa Schools or Muslim Schools you're branded as 'Bigoted" or "Racist"

PS: Biast? Really? Doesn't the little red squiggly line under a word that's supposed to be spelled "Biased" in your web browser not tip you off that your message could fall a little flat?

 

[johnnybluenose]

My report back from the kids class size and composition in the dreaded private schools, which are supposedly eroding the Public School System:
22 in my 4 year old's K class - with a guess at ~3 special needs.
30 in my 7 year old's Grade 2 class with a guess at ~5 Special Needs (My daughter included with attention issues and struggles with reading- too early to diagnose any potential dyslexia)
My wife knows some kids and some kids are hard to tell on day 1 when they won't dis-engage from their parents dropping them off. Also the K class size will likely go up, some kids will move from part time to full time Kindergarten and the school has opened up a few more spots, likely due to the TF Shenanigans...

Looking forward to dropping the little rotters off tomorrow and meeting their teachers.

Also worth noting the class size on the K class is because there's 2 full time Kindergarten classes at her school and 2 classes which are part time, rotating basis and it's 1 teacher with 1 class room. 1 class goes M, W, F and the other goes Tuesday & Thursday and then they flip the next week.

both my kids classes have rotating Teachers Aids (meaning don't get them full time) and parents are free to sit in class whenever to assist and help out.

 

[mtkb]

Yes JBN heard the argument. And figured you would come hot and bothered with one from your extremely biast point of view. personally my biast point of view is no funding should go to Private schools with religious connotations, which will set you off more I know.

The govt would have to come up with the money for the influx in kids, it's mandatory. However if you don't think the public school is good enough for little jimmy you can pay for it. My view. I got a feeling the elite still would.

With the greatest of all conceivably due respect.... you're out of your gourd. Kids are sent to religious schools for the religion factor, not the "elitist" factor... By all means, please take a drive past the place I graduated from, and tell me that between the prostitutes standing out front on Kingsway and the 70's era infrastructure (now improved to some extent) that STM is in any way "elitist". Garbage.

Should the taxpayer be subsidizing five figure tuitions to tony west side Vancouver schools? Of course not. But when the only issue is whether or not a parent wants their child to have religion as part of their education, why should the funding be any less than 100% that what the public schools get? If you think Vatican is busy melting gold bars so that the children in their schools can have access to state of the art learning equipment you are sadly, sadly mistaken. We used Commodore 64's in computer class, and I graduated in 1996.

Seems to me that if people want their children to study religion they can send them to that type of private school. If not, public school it is. Unless of course, the religious schools somehow manage to provide such a superior product that you have to rig the game against them to keep people from sending their children there...

 

[bulljive]

My Elitist comment more refers to private schools such as Southridge etc. And no I don't think religious schools should be subsidized, you want your child to be taught your particular religion in school you can pay for it, all of it. That's my view, I'm allowed to have one and trust me there are a lot of people that feel that way. I personally rather see the money go to the public school system and yes I realize its not that simple to solve all these funding issues.

Are openly gay children allowed or encouraged to be in EVERY religious private school? Are they taught that its okay? I know at pacific academy homosexual parents are told not to apply as its considered a sin. Sorry I don't support this line of thinking and don't want a dime of my money heading in that direction. Maybe you support that, I don't.

I don't want to get into a religious debate and spin in circles but that should clear up one issue of my view that is cut and dry.

 

[Dude]

For us, the dilemma is on the other side. I DON'T want my kid in a religious school, which now limits us to the non-denominational private schools somewhat close to us. They tend to be a bit on the higher end- and fantastic schools. Southridge is a fantastic school, and again, kicking myself for not enrolling my son when we had the chance. We chose travel over school...usually, in my opinion, a better use of our family budget. We’ve done a couple of longish family trips to different parts of Europe since then- IMO, better, life-lesson type experiences.

And saying that, I know…it only makes me look a bit ridiculous, and gives credence to RF’s claim that I spend all my free time on riding and surfing vacations. Probably because I do- the kids have both surfed in Portugal, skied the Alps, and I rode in the Azores last summer. Fcuk off RF. Cnut. If I had your money, I’d burn mine.

Anyways, point being, our kids are both going to very good, local, public schools here in Langley. We’re very happy with the teachers, and admin. Both our kids have some learning / ADD type issues that we need support with, and we get it. So, at the time, why spend the money when we’re already getting pretty good “service”? Well, in that timeframe aftermath of our decision to not enrol Mini Dude at Southridge, they’ve filled up, and we have had two strikes. I can only imagine demand to get into Southridge is even higher, now. We’ll find out, soon enough. If we are “lucky” enough to get in, it’ll cost us in the realm of $15-$20K / year…which I think is quite a bit on the high side for private, but I don’t know for sure. The tuition, last I checked, was around $11K, but then that is the bare minimum, there are a lot of other costs associated. Great school, though. Can’t emphasise that enough. They get their asses handed to them by STM on the sports side, but still a great school.

I gotta go. Have to find some Grey Pupon.