Canada MNT: Road to 2018

[Soccer Coach]

@Soccer Coach ...Have you ever wondered why I continuously call you an idiot, and the dumbest smart guy on TTP? It’s not because you are actually stupid, it’s because you seem to have an absolute inability to discern information when it comes to these discussions. It’s as though you have a pre-formed opinion about whatever the discussion point is, and you skip right past any point others (and I’ll use my own points as examples) make, where that position may actually agree with the stance you’ve taken.

I’d like you to TRY and follow the bouncing ball that you created here on TTP. You get your back up when I insult you, which I do, of course, because I’ve been insulted. It’s how real life fights start, one man insults another, and frequently, the other either insults back in return, or simply throws a punch. Human nature. You understand this, surely. So, in reviewing the LONG LIST of insulting remarks you’ve made, it’s baffling to me that you don’t understand why I come at you with written abuse. Frankly, it’d be better if we were on the training pitch, because I could then kick you, and you’d promptly shut the fcuk up…but that’s, unfortunately, not the case.

People like you seem to enjoy being demeaning to others, then hiding behind an outwardly calm demeanor so as to suggest you aren’t at least partially to blame for the backlash you are receiving, simply because you are delivering your message in a calm, calculated, yet condescending manner.

Let’s review:

• Way back where we first “met” in this thread, on a Web forum and in a thread created by Canadian Soccer players, you decide that it would be a good idea to demean not just Canadian soccer, but players from top-to-bottom and coaches alike in a wide painting brush that essentially paints us as back-country bumpkins that have never been exposed to the game, and who are intellectually inferior to you in particular in every way. This becomes especially infuriating when it becomes evident that what you are writing is essentially the same message many of us have been writing for year, but you fail to acknowledge this EVEN when many actually agree with much of what you are writing.
• Earlier in the thread you point to the lack of a true Canadian Professional league as being a major stumbling block in professional development. This is an issue many players here on TTP in the know have been banging on about for YEARS, certainly as long as I’ve been a member. Yet, when we point that out, you revert to suggest (I’m paraphrasing, now, and will continue to do so, because I am quite busy, and don’t have the time to go back and pull your exact quotes…so feel free to correct me in I’m wrong), that we are naïve, wrong, and as coaches we are actually hurting our system more than helping it.
• Earlier in the thread you point to a lack of technical development, and too much “over coaching”, and even reverting to kick & run tactics. This again is an issue many players here on TTP in the know have been banging on about for YEARS. One of the biggest issues we have in Canada is a lack of coaches, from the highest end, down to house. We simply don’t have enough! We have too many well earning dads that register their kids, and due to a lack of knowledgeable coaches and volunteers, step up, and try and do a job they simply have no idea how to do. I never played hockey. I watched a lot on TV and am a huge fan, but never played. It’d be like me trying to teach kids how to skate, shoot, and think tactically. I’d be a fish out of water. So, when we have situations like this- well-meaning but supremely underqualified dad coaching at the grassroots level- we are, systematically shooting ourselves in the foot from the beginning. We give these guys manuals, and coaching clinics, then “qualify” them, but they still do not have an innate understanding of the game. We know this is a huge problem. Little secret: after coaching my son from 5 till 12, I swore I’d never coach my daughter. The relationship between my son and I was strained as father / son with me coaching him. He was too wound up and so intent on pleasing me it hurt his development, while I watched all the other boys around him take leaps and bounds, move on to higher levels, etc. Eventually things worked out, and he chose to pursue hockey and bike racing instead, but I did promise myself I wasn’t going to make the same mistake w/ my daughter. That lasted one year, when I watched the guys who were coaching my 6 year old what a mess they were making. They clearly had never played, could not handle a ball at their feet if their lives depended on it. They didn’t even wear proper footwear. They meant well, but because of their general disconnection to the sport, they spent most of the time talking, and trying to teach positional play, and not nearly enough time simply playing with the ball at their feet. Almost no free play. My daughter didn’t enjoy it, and told me she wasn’t going to play again unless I coached, and she was right, I needed to get involved. I could not let her play another year with such poor instruction, it wasn’t right. I had the playing experience, I had the knowledge. The first thig we changed was making sure there was a hell of a lot less talk, and way more time with the ball at their feet, and simply playing. You know, when you aren’t instructed? Much of the time was spent in the early years- yes- with every girl having a ball at their feet, teaching technical skills. Every girl would have a ball for 45 minutes. The rest of the practice was typically a scrimmage for another 30-45 minutes. No rules, just play. Yes, there was a reward system early on. Yes, it involved getting a trip to Dairy Queen, where the team would bond, if a girl pulled off a Cryuff or step-over, or nut-megged another player in a match. If they made passes w/ their weak foot. If they scored with their weak foot. And, yes, if I saw they were thinking critically, playing with their head up, and trying to make smart decisions, rather than just kicking the ball up the field. Out of that group of girls, from U7, I have lost 2 to other sports (quit soccer), lost 2 to going to another club because they moved, graduated, by my guess, close to 20 to higher levels, and the rest have stayed. At the grassroots level, that type of retention is considered hugely successful. And guess what? Those original coached? Those well-meaning coaches are not coaching at a high level, because their daughters happened to be very good athletes, and the club would promote the girls, then have no truly qualified coach for them (not the club’s fault, it’s a systematic issue we have here, not enough guys giving back), so the same guys moved up the coaching ranks. On more than one occasion, I have been told the club would like my daughter to move up a level, and I knew the only reason why was because they wanted me coaching at a higher level. Finally, I had a very honest discussion with the club, and said I knew my daughter wasn’t ready for the next level up, so we wouldn’t be moving up until she was. Now, much of this, in bit and pieces, I’ve shared and expressed in this thread. Yet, you zero I on the fact I rewarded my girls with trip to Dairy Queen once upon a time, and insinuated that I was doing it all wrong, and the right way to coach was to introduce free play, and to “try it sometime” (seriously, WTF? Did you read anything I wrote?), and they should be making those moves because they love the game, not because they are chasing ice cream. See, you simply don’t get it. You can’t force players to love the game, that will come naturally. But you can influence their environment when you have them. To have the type of retention I get, you don’t get that through giving them ice cream, you get that through sharing your love of the game, and passing that along. They come back year after year because they have fun playing, and that is all I want- I want them to have fun, and come back next year. If they move up, great. If they don’t move up, but come back to play, also great. Yet, somehow, I’m doing it all wrong in your eyes, and am bad for the game. Even though you’ve never actually seen me coach. Because I have rewarded them with ice cream.
• Several times in this tread you have pointed out Canada’s national ranking, as if we aren’t aware of it. Honestly, do you really think we are so stupid that we don’t know where we are ranked, and why?
• Don’t even get me started on your supreme misunderstanding of our local urban areas, and population / population density growth. It’s obvious you need to get around more. You can lead a horse to water, but can’t force it to drink.

Lion called me literally a couple of days ago about trying to “create” an atmosphere of free play. You have- quite right- pointed out that what Canada truly lacks is a culture, where kids will play freely in the streets, etc. You are not wrong, but how do you change a culture? This is something Lion and I have discussed at nausea, that youth are missing. We have created a system of over-coaching, and far too much structure. In fact, I can say pretty much all of the guys here on TTP that I know well, have played with and against over many, many years, know this. It has changed dramatically from when we were young, and did play freely in our own time, no structure. We may be, internationally, a soccer backcountry, but I grew up loving this game. LOVING it. I always had a ball growing up, and all my free time was devoted to playing. From gravel fields at recess and lunch, to playing donkey against the wall, to going to a field on my own to kick around, to riding my bike across town in the summers to attend soccer schools. I am not unique, ALL of us did that. We LOVE this game! Some got very good, then had roadblocks to getting anywhere. I once had a coach who’d played his professional stints in the UK, etc., tell me, “Dude, if you were born overseas, you’d have gone somewhere, telling you that right now.” I know I’m a dime a dozen out this way. There are many, many better players than me, and were many better players even at my peak. This statement got me thinking. Yes, my dream was to be a professional. I made it to College, then that was the end of the journey before falling into the local men’s leagues. But you know what? I’m fcuking proud to be Canadian. I LOVE this country more than I love the game of football. If you had to make me choose- give up being a Canadian, and you can be a professional footballer- I would not make that choice. I’m proud as hell of our country, and what our country does for its citizens, and how it welcomes in immigrants and refugees whom chose to move to Canada in pursuit of better opportunities for themselves and their kids. This is something I truly love about this place. I’d have never met my wife if Canada were to have closed her doors to others feeing their country from war or political unrest. This country, complete with its flaws, has provided me with opportunity, and safety, the opportunity to build personal wealth, and live a fulfilling life loving our incredible outdoor environment. I’ve travelled the world with my bike and board, and although I love all of the places (and people) I’ve visited, I LOVE coming home. So yes, I’m thankful for what my country has allowed me to do, and am well cognizant that we are unique in a world where poverty and famine reign. Anyone who has Canadian citizenship should thank their lucky stars. I truly believe that. So, if our Canadian National program and all the support system around the game are decade, maybe centuries behind other nations, so be it. I am proud of what little history we have in this game. It’s not a great history, but it’s our history. But I’ll be damned if some asshole from South America, who apparently has never actually PLAYED this game at ANY reasonable level, is going to come onto this forum and insult Canadians, and Canadian soccer without at least giving him something back, and pointing out the foolishness of his words.

Soccer Coach, as far as I’m concerned, you are welcome to come back to this party anytime, even if you are that awkward guy in the corner that “doesn’t get it”, but don’t think that if you write something inaccurate, or worse, condescending, you won’t get backlash. Maybe think about what you are trying to send out as your message. Could it be that there are some people around you that actually do “get it”, and are positive contributors to what we know is a bit of a fcuked up system?

Anyways, this has been pretty random, I have a lot to do, but needed to get this off my chest.

You now @Dude I have not replied on purpose because you really get all emotional and insulting right away. I am not here to ruin your day. I will post in detail later. Do you think that I enjoy seeing Canada playing poorly and getting tied 1-1 with a nation that is ranked 150th in the world?
I can see that the Canadian soccer system failed you and your dreams. Sadly it continues to do so for the current kids. The tragic part is that you have become and agent that perpetuates it. You do not see it. Think about it........ Before I post it so it does not take you by surprise

 

[Soccer Coach]

I need to make a brief correction. Azerbaijan is ranked 137th in the world. They also recently played Andorra and also tied. Andorra is 202th in the FIFA ranking of the world? Seriously guys, who thinks that it is good for our team to go play those teams? Yeah. Go and have a good experience playing with a team that just tied Andorra which is the second last team in the rankings just ahead of Anguilla and Mongolia.
Should we try to be playing higher ranked teams? More importantly why we do not arrange friendlies with other CONCACAF or COMMEBOL nations? Should not we be playing in weathers (tropical or high altitude) and with nations that resemble the style of soccer that we are playing?

It is just shows the lack of thought for the players and program. You should be preparing with the ones that resemble the ones that you will be playing in competition.

Our friend @Dude has made a long an emotional post. It is appreciated that he shares his post. There is so much material to work and reflect. Some are recurrent themes others are new. I will not address all of the points, as I am sure that there will be time to address them.

The ones that took my attention the most was the sharing of his dreams to go high in the game, to play it well, and how the system and the people above him and who were supposed to guide him and teach him failed him. Yes, this is the true. His elders failed him and truncated his dreams and his desire to play and express himself on the field. I can see why this can be painful and emotional.

I can see why this can leave an emotional mark and a deep sense of frustration.

As any social on individual disfunctionality, the victim eventually becomes the oppressor. The ones that suffers as young eventually grows to become the adult that makes others suffer. The ones that were or are abused eventually defend and justify the abuser.

When you have experienced Canadian football from the other side (I mean you have played against them, or watched them meanwhile supporting other teams, or hear the analysis from countries who eliminates them), from the lessens of the outsider, it does not take you long or to be very perceptive to realize the origins of this dismal performance. It does make sense to see the limitations of the Canadian players and teams.

The very first to understand is that the game does not take place in vacuum, but in a social context. It is not robots who play the game. It is people who play the game, and it is people who train and guide other people. It is institutions organized and managed by people who create the behaviour of the players and coaches. Once you understand this and realize that it is not about mere technique or just theoretical tactics you can see where things are going wrong.

As @Dude points out in a quote. The very best of the world learn to play the game in the ghettos, the favelas, the slums, the trailer parks (ie. Dempsey), the projects (i.e. Zidane and Raul). The nations who were far away geographically or culturally from the mother of the game (England). This is not a put down on England.

The game was supposed to be an agent that helped to preserve the social order. Factory workers and farmers were supposed to learn through the game the social values that preserve a social and cultural order. British firms introduced the game to their workers with the aim of improving productivity in their firms. It was supposed to an agent of social control. It is still tried to used this way by others around the world in many forms. This struggle will never stop. However, the poor will always try to rebel and subvert this imposition by one means or another. This appropriation and rebellion can occur in the marginal areas because there is no supervision. No coach or manager can come and tell a poor kid "this is the way" that you are supposed to play the game.

The break away from the original thinking of the game has not taken place in Canada. The game has always been well regulated and have kept close ties to the colonial masters. The poor here do not play the game or if they play it they are marginalized or not taken into consideration (i.e. how many poor families can have a child in a provincial team?). Here the ones that play and MANAGE AND ORGANIZE the game are the middle classes or the ones that have education or the ones that have vested interest in keeping the social order.

When a kid gets sent to a soccer program in Canada, both the parent and the coach and the institution that brings them together do not have an incentive to create a true soccer players (a human who can express himself and herself freely in the pitch). Both the parent and coach are interested in disciplining a child. Make this child to obey and follow social conventions that will make him function in our social order. This comes before becoming a soccer player.

This is why we tell our players to share the ball, listen to the coach, work in team, etc. The best players and managers in the world were those who defied social convention (i.e. Maradona, George Best, Zidane, Messi, Cruyf and among coaches Guardiola, Bielsa, Menotti, Sacchi, and even Mourinho)

This is why I see that @Dude has become the perpetrator once he became older. The system failed him and now he is doing the same. Telling his players to DO things. TO PLAY THE WAY HE WANTS THEM to play. Teaching them things that he learns from Bussiness thinking and paradigm.

Canada is a very good place to live. Everything is well organized. EVERYTHING aims to be organized and structured. EVERYTHING including our playing of the game. We also have work hard to keep or ties with our colonial masters. Our money, has the Queen of England and it was not until 1982 that a severe break started to take place. THIS success in organize everything and keeping ties to an older way of thinking about the game is ironically or biggest downfall, and it will continue to be unless we start to create a new Canadian soccer identity who reflects the thoughts and the views of the people of Canada whether poor or immigrant.

Until we reach a full democratization of the game at the field level and governance level, we will not mover up the chain.

He also is fulfilling a very good and important role in keeping the system going. He harass, humiliates, and excludes the ones who are critical and point out the errors of the system.

 

[Soccer Coach]

When people ask me how I feel about @Dude and others been of Soccer Coach and Campo. I reply. I am calm. It is expected. We are questioning a system and people will defend it. It is normal. It is the way is supposed to be. We are creating a club that questions the way of doing things and the way of playing.

 

[Soccer Coach]

ps. the previous post is because dude calls me the messiah.

 

[Regs]

What about the rest of us who just call you an asshole?

 

[bulljive]

Socced Coach you are ridiculous. Do you really think all the top players in the world just grew up with free play and didn't have instruction from coaches. Honestly imagine having the 6 different teams of 14 kids just out playing for an hour with zero instruction, just figuring it out. It would be fukcing caos.

Yes I agree and we all do that free play and expression are a massive part of development. For a lot of those top players it was dawn to dusk in the streets playing, learning. But that's different. thats a whole other part of development. A coach that has kids once or twice a week can't just drop a ball and say figure it out. 80% would never be back.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Socced Coach you are ridiculous. Do you really think all the top players in the world just grew up with free play and didn't have instruction from coaches. Honestly imagine having the 6 different teams of 14 kids just out playing for an hour with zero instruction, just figuring it out. It would be fukcing caos.

Yes I agree and we all do that free play and expression are a massive part of development. For a lot of those top players it was dawn to dusk in the streets playing, learning. But that's different. thats a whole other part of development. A coach that has kids once or twice a week can't just drop a ball and say figure it out. 80% would never be back.

This were you are wrong my friend. The poor in the world do not have formal or professional coaches. They can barely afford food let alone a coach. They play on the streets and then later a parent donates some money for uniforms and go to play in semi organized games. It is until later that kids are scouted and more formal training starts with more experienced coaches.

You could do it here. You could have kids playing 4 v 4, 3 v 3 + N, 1 v 1, etc.. there is so much that you can learn with small sided games. This what you do not get CHAOS Is what teaches the game. This is why Canadian players seem predictable and umiganitive. since childhood they have someone telling what to do.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Ps. Yes . The kids would be back. You do not need to add anything to bring them back.

 

[Dude]

Once again, you've pointed out the obvious we have all been saying for years, but in a condescending way only you seem uniquely capable.

News flash: your thinking isn't unique or new to us. You just think it is.

I bet you've never actually played and you'd be destroyed at even the shitty div 2 level you coach. That is the irony.

Oh, and I didn't make it higher because I didn't have the stuff. That's the truth.

 

[TheRob]

Great hair though.

 

[Dude]

This were you are wrong my friend. The poor in the world do not have formal or professional coaches. They can barely afford food let alone a coach. They play on the streets and then later a parent donates some money for uniforms and go to play in semi organized games. It is until later that kids are scouted and more formal training starts with more experienced coaches.

You could do it here. You could have kids playing 4 v 4, 3 v 3 + N, 1 v 1, etc.. there is so much that you can learn with small sided games. This what you do not get CHAOS Is what teaches the game. This is why Canadian players seem predictable and umiganitive. since childhood they have someone telling what to do.

This kind of stuff makes me laugh. You actually think we don't do this now. Small sided games are a staple. We literally have been doing this all our lives, and personally have this nearly every training session.

You think you are bringing revolutionary information to the picture here but you aren't. Will you ever understand that?

 

[Regs]

This sooo reminds me of Alan Douglas and Triangles - TTPers that have been here from the beginning should know what I'm talking about

 

[Soccer Coach]

This kind of stuff makes me laugh. You actually think we don't do this now. Small sided games are a staple. We literally have been doing this all our lives, and personally have this nearly every training session.

You think you are bringing revolutionary information to the picture here but you aren't. Will you ever understand that?

I do.
Yes, you might have heard of them (small sided games). Yes, you might THINK thank you are using them. However, very few coaches use them or when they use them, they use them in very ineffective or suboptimal matters; hence the results.

Did you see Mexico's warm up compared to the warm up of Canada? Both teams did a very similar small sided game. However, whao, what a difference! This is what people here do not get. They get the lingo, they get formats, but they do not know how to use them effectively nor the coaches can translate them effectively in a game situation.

I can see that this is a matter of ego for you and some others here and not ideas.

Ps. As for myself, if you come to one our training sessions, I would be happy to teach how to make smooth passes and turns and change of directions.

 

[Dude]

It's not ego, it's the fact you absolutely refuse to understand that we all get this, have been doing it, and will continue. I will repeat: you have NEVER seen me coach. You are basing your opinion on my abilities and the abilities of others (like @Ballbaby ) literally on nothing. You have zero basis to form an option. You do understand this, right? Literally you have nothing to go on.

I will again remind you: you coach men in a 2nd division of a very mediocre amature league. Your league is nothing special, and your team is nothing special. There is nothing there to make me believe you are actually anything special as far as a coach goes.

Yet, you disparage people like @Ballbaby (and you definitely have, in this thread), and the reality is you'd never lace his boots as a player or coach. He's probably forgotten more than you've learned.

 

[Regs]

Anyways, to get back to our regular scheduled programming...

Canada vs Uzbekistan kicks off tomorrow night @ 7PM Pacific - it'll be live streamed on the CSA website - If I remember, I'll see if I can embed the video directly in this thread tomorrow.

Go Canada Go

 

[Dude]

I just read that again...you want to teach me how to make a smooth pass, turns, and change of direction.

Are you for real?

Again, have you ever even played? My sources tell me you are anything but a player. What makes you think you can teach if you can't even do?

I may have cement feet, but I think I can execute any turn, change of direction, and demonstrate smooth passing.

Wow...you just keep getting better and better. Guy gets a gift promotion into the VMSL div 1 division and thinks he's the second coming of coaching brilliance...

 

[akslop]

I just read that again...you want to teach me how to make a smooth pass, turns, and change of direction.

Are you for real?

Again, have you ever even played? My sources tell me you are anything but a player. What makes you think you can teach if you can't even do?

I may have cement feet, but I think I can execute any turn, change of direction, and demonstrate smooth passing.

Wow...you just keep getting better and better. Guy gets a gift promotion into the VMSL div 1 division and thinks he's the second coming of coaching brilliance...

The only game he plays competitively is Chess.

Promotion - When a pawn reaches the final rank, it can be turned into another piece (except a pawn or king), usually a queen. Also known as "Queening". See also "Underpromotion".

http://www.arkangles.com/kchess/glossary.html

 

[cascadesoccer]

Can we do a charity boxing match or something to end this battle, so I don't have to read these long ass posts every week?

 

[Regs]

Hmmm, we may need to settle this feud like we did in the Auld days...

http://www.takethepiss.com/forums/ttp-mythical-matchups.137/

 

[Dude]

Just read a couple. Classic stuff.

Given his secret weapon is YouTube videos, and my kryptonite is technology, this may in fact be close. A few left hooks full of data usage, and he could have me down for the count.

Also, it appears he's impervious to logic, no matter how many times I hit him with that, he still comes back fresh. I could have a logic stick the size of Thor's Hammer, and I still wouldn't make an impression on this guy.