BCTF Strike 2012

[Captain Shamrock]

Studsup, well said. It is easy to bash teachers in the current climate and I'm positive a lot of the people who are the biggest teacher badgers would not last a week in some of the environments we come across every year. That I know. That is no knock on anyone in particular here as I agree, with a lot of the things that the 'bashers' have mentioned. BTW, Studsup, you are having a team this year, aren't you? We are trying to figure out how many teams are going to be in the league. Hope everything is going well for you and your family.

 

[Regs]

Does anyone here want to tell me the BCTF was "blindsided" by Bill 22?

The BCTF got EXACTLY what they wanted and are just getting started.

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, erm, do something else. Like shoot themselves in the knee with a nail gun.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Good for the kids.......they have started a Facebook group regarding extra-curricular activities and their displeasure with the possibility of this happening, especially at this time of the year.

Students and Student-Athletes against Work To Rule(Bell to Bell)

I wonder when the media will be hit with this sort of thing.

 

[SofaKingGood]

Here it goes:
BC Supreme Court orders remedy for teachers

It took a decade to get through the courts, but a decision finally said that the BC Liberal government acted illegally when it took away the right for teachers to bargain important learning and working conditions.

Christy Clark, as Education Minister, brought changes to the law in 2002 that stripped the teacher collective agreement of many guarantees that had previously been negotiated. The law went even further, decreeing that these items could never be negotiated in the future.

Madame Justice Susan Griffin said the government was wrong. It did not have the authority to take away collective bargaining rights because they are guaranteed to Canadians through the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Justice Griffin referred to a decision the Supreme Court of Canada that says that “recognition of the right to collectively bargain as part of the freedom to associate ‘reaffirms the values of dignity, personal autonomy, equality and democracy that are inherent in the Charter.’”

The Justice had this to say about the impact of Clark’s contract-breaking law:

“The legislation undoubtedly was seen by teachers as evidence that the government did not respect them to be valued contributors to the education system, having excluded them from any freedom to associate to influence their working conditions. This was a seriously deleterious effect of the legislation, one adversely disproportionate to any salutary effects revealed by the evidence.”

The Justice declared the legislation invalid, but suspended the effect of the judgment for one year to address a remedy to the deleterious impact of the legislation.

The BCTF has held several meetings with representatives of the province on remedy, but so far the province has not given any sign that it will act in a way that shows the respect that the Justice has said comes from teachers being able to influence their working conditions through collective bargaining.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Sofa, can I ask you what the significance of the above post is? I'm being serious?

 

[SofaKingGood]

Sorry for the 2 part reply.
What has happened with that ruling was that the govt had until April 2012, to "fix the problem." We have been negotiating for almost a year now and it hasn't been fixed. They had a plan to introduce this Bill 22 the whole time, that I agree- but it's the wording and language of it that is shocking. One of their negotiators even said there is no point talking because they are not going to agree on anything.
All they did was waste time because in their minds they are trying to fix the problem. The timing of this Bill 22 isn't coincidental- they are going to go to court again in April and say that they bargained in good faith.
What's going to happen is that even if this Bill 22 goes through- its still going to end up in court again and a bunch of resources are going to be wasted.

I truly feel that we have been bullied and that we have no other option at this point in time. There isn't any money to be spent on Public Education- but they have money to spend on "Educational advertisements in all forms of media, have oodles of money to go to court, hire a mediator to see if a deal can be reached, are going to increase people in govt because they want to do more teacher evaluations and so on.

Negotiations are tough, but in the end deals are made with a bit of compromise. Our stand is that every point we have brought up is negotiable, but when the other side says no to everything- then its a crock.

Captain: the purpose of the above post is to show the average person that teachers cannot negotiate things such as class sizes and composition under the proposed law.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I agree........there is always time for a pint.

Sofa, do you not think the BCTF has made a balls of a few things? Actually quite a few things?

 

[SofaKingGood]

pint? haha, you caught me there
I am not saying the BCTF is perfect as I know they had some things in prior negotiations that made no sense in my mind. BUT, when you negotiate, you always shoot high and eventually settle somewhere in between. I was a TOC in 2005 when we were out for 2 weeks, so I'm not an extremely seasoned vet, but I'm getting there.

 

[bananaman]

I agree........there is always time for a pint. Sofa, do you not think the BCTF has made a balls of a few things? Actually quite a few things?

The bctf have balls'ed some things up. We should have been in phase 2 since christmas to try and hasten the "negotiations" and the strike was a little too late. We lost money, the government saved $33m. What people don't realize is that we want a better learning environment and to have a say in what goes on in our classrooms. The general public think we only want a raise and that we already do little for our money as it is. Majority of teachers want better conditions to teach and yes, a pay raise would be lovely. However, if no rise but better conditions and the ability to have a say about what goes on in my classroom them we might be heading in the right direction. Anyway, this is spring break and I want to go catch up on the bachelor!

 

[Regs]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

Not anymore, it's dead, remember?

 

[Dude]

Indeed I was on the froth and in full wind-up mode. Both ways.

I'd like to apologize to any teachers I offended, that wasn't my aim here, but obviously I am fundamentally opposed to the stance and actions of the BCTF. Can't state that enough.

I have a lot of good friends who are teachers, and Studs reminded me of that, who I've known since (ironically) playing college soccer with now many moons back. I think every time I've had a pint with Captain Shamrock- too few over the years, BTW- we have a fun, lively discussion on union bashing. So, my aim here is definitely not to insult people I like and respect "off this thread" and in person.

I will do my best to behave- until somebody winds me up again, that is.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Once again another ignorant member of the public. Please inform and educate yourself on the issue. We lost three days wages to fight for your kids to have better learning conditions. It's not just about a payhike, but one would be fair as previous generations of teachers gave up raises in lieu of smaller class sizes which were then stripped by the liberal gov't. Elementary and secondary educations are the foundation for the future doctors/dentists and other highly skilled, trained professionals. Everyone loves to make a whipping boy out of teachers but nobody says shite about firefighers getting raises. If your jealous about the jobs perks, go back to school and step in to the trenches. You'll see how much of a gravy job it is.....

Studs, with all due respect... who benefited from your three day strike? The BC Gov't by saving whatever they saved on wages. Your cause wasn't furthered, the kids lost 3 days of learning, the union lost 3 days of dues and had to pay their demonstrators strike pay, etc etc etc.

You're not fighting for MY KIDS, as my kids aren't in the system, and I can fight for my own kids. I don't want teachers fighting for my kids, I want teachers to teach kids.

I'm not an ignorant member of the public, I strated this thread as I knew nothing. I learned from this thread and from other venues about the entire situation, got myself up to speed, formed an opinion and have now been debating/arguing on it.

I've never once said an individual teacher or teachers are to blame, my problem lays at the feet of Ms. Lambert and the TF/Union. I support 100% the cause the individual teachers talk about- class size/composition. But YOUR UNION continues to not want to "blink" on benefits/pay so the Govt has come down hard with Bill 22. It was an invited response. You can't honestly tell me that Lambert & Co. didn't see this coming. It was invited on, the TF WANTS a fight they want to challenge the govt in courts and they are a political policy lobby agency, like it or not.

The TF fancies itself as the Provincial Government Official Unelected Opposition and runs this political campaign on your Union Dues. How do you like your Union Dues going to pay for studies and published propaganda to urge anyone who will listen to extinguish HST. What the hell did HST have to do with Education and Kids?

Do you think the govt would have introduced Bill 22 had the TF said that they were willing to sign a 3 year agreement that included no bump on wages and benefits? I certainly don't.

Don't compare yourselves to firefighters- the FF's bargain with civic government who aren't currently awash in red ink and under a Net Zero Mandate.

The BC Nurses Union has already come out and said they don't want a raise or added benefits, they just want the funding bumped up to add 2k additional nurses.

There's a serious nursing shortage in BC. There's more accredited teachers than teaching positions in BC. Supply and Demand!

PS Nobody is jealous of the job perks, we're just pointing out that every teacher who decides to flap his gums about being underpaid and overworked embarrasses themselves because of what Joe-Average gets paid and enjoys for perks, Uni educated or otherwise.

 

[girth]

This thread should be closed like the schools for two weeks spring break and then stay open till the two month summer break. Just a thought?

 

[mtkb]

I know you haven't been in the classroom since grade 6 but don't hate on teachers. Obviously they choose when the government tells them to have their breaks! Much love to all the supporters of teachers on ttp

Grade 6, Bananaman? I had my BA at 19 and my law degree at 22. Wrong carcass to shoot that dart pal... It must be tough sorting out what you're going to do with all your breaks... Stat holidays, Christmas, spring break, summer holidays... oh and Im sure you put in 12 hour days on your "professional development" days... Take your net zero, be happy you have a job, and get back to doing it before our comatose premier wakes up and realizes that she can fire your ass and replace any of you in a New York minute...

 

[canuckboy]

wow law degree at 22. Then you can afford to pay more taxes to give the teachers a raise?

 

[djones]

I'm not an ignorant member of the public, I strated this thread as I knew nothing. I learned from this thread and from other venues about the entire situation, got myself up to speed, formed an opinion and have now been debating/arguing on it.

OMG! You start a thread in a 'take the piss' format to learn something about it thinking you were going to get unbiased opinions on a delicate matter? Where most people hide behind an avatar and a made up name so they can wind up whoever bites? Tell me you're kidding!

As I've only briefly looked through this thread and, again, totally bemused at some people's take on things they know so little about. WOW! Truly unbelievable and sad!

It reminds me of the Youth Soccer thread where people with no experience posted venomous comments on what little they knew and how they thought things should go without ever setting a foot in the coaching realm and knowing what goes on in other clubs or districts. "Every club is this" and "every coach is that"...blah blah blah. It got stupid real quick. I feel I'm reading the same thing all over again.

What happens in one school district can be totally different in another as each have different needs and demographics that dictate these needs. The same can be from school to school in each district.

 

[Regs]

DJ,

Come on, man - youth soccer thread comparison? Not even close!

Everything was fine until the teachers on TTP started posting.

TBH, I blame it on the few Leaf fans here...

 

[mtkb]

wow law degree at 22. Then you can afford to pay more taxes to give the teachers a raise?

i'm happy to pay more taxes for things that have value added. $600 million for a shitty but new roof, not so much. Raises for teachers who just got them when others havent had a raise in 20 years (for instance, lawyers who take legal aid referrals) - not a chance in bloody hell...

more money so that underprivileged kids can eat in the morning before class, and to make sure that teachers are handling a reasonable amount of students - those are the types of things I'd be fine with a tax increase for...

 

[Ballbaby]

Grade 6, Bananaman? I had my BA at 19 and my law degree at 22. Wrong carcass to shoot that dart pal... It must be tough sorting out what you're going to do with all your breaks... Stat holidays, Christmas, spring break, summer holidays... oh and Im sure you put in 12 hour days on your "professional development" days... Take your net zero, be happy you have a job, and get back to doing it before our comatose premier wakes up and realizes that she can fire your ass and replace any of you in a New York minute...

BA at 19? Law degree at 22? Captain Shamrock's wife used to teach gifted children. She still might. God knows what she sees in that man. She's too young to have taught you but she was the teacher who walked in every morning looking frazzled after an exhausting night of spurning Captain's advances. The guy is a nutter. He literally has a tactical plan of how he's going to get some every night.

It's kind of cool that you find TTP intellectually stimulating and entertaining. Some pretty smart and funny guys on here that probably provide you with as much candor and merriment as the lawyers you work with. Regs is pretty funny. His comment towards Studsup shooting himself in the knee with a nailgun is hilarious. I admire Studs dedication and approach to "reality" and "tactile" teaching. His students learned a lot from watching that event.

DJones and Studsup posting on here sobered a few up realizing that we can't let this get personal. The majority of the teachers are dedicated and true professionals and I have empathy for them as they are targets for some very emotional comments......undeserving.