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Barry Bonds has the record

girth

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Barry Bonds hit his 756th home run tonight and Hank Aaron congratulated him? I thought he couldn't stand Bonds?

Anyways roids or not you have to have big time talent to do what he did so hats off to him.
 

Captain Shamrock

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Agreed, Girth........that's averaging 38 home runs a year over 20 years.....impressive indeed. Yes, he is a prick but 756 home runs is a record people thought would NEVER be broken........well done, Prick Bonds. Whether you 'cheated' or not, a great feat.........because there certainly is NO cheating in any other sport in the world.......
 

Regs

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It won't last :D

A-rod will break it soon enough... I heard on the radio that if A-rod kept the same pace he is at now, he *could* reach 1000. Realistically they figure he will end up at 850 or so.
 

girth

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Yes A-Rod is sitting at 500 homers now at the age of 32 so let's say he plays till he's 40. He will need 32 homers per year average to tie the record as of now. Will Bonds retire after this year or hit another 30 next year?
 

johnnybluenose

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Bonds could play another year, his slugging percentage is awesome...If he played in the AL and DH'ed he could play two more maybe...
Roids or not huge feat.
 

johnnybluenose

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How can Vitamin S Improve your focus?

Home Runs are more about timing, bat speed and the ability to "turn on the ball"

A-Rod is such a special hitter because of his ability to turn on the ball, as is Ken Griffey Jr.

IMHO Roids are more about durability and quicker healing then simply putting on a huge mass of muscle...How many times do you hear about guys getting big (roids or not) and hear of them having to lose weight beacuse it has hampered their flexibility and mobility?

Barry stole over 30 bases 9 seasons, and got to 29 Stolen Bases twice.
He was a gold glove Fielder.
He is easily a top 5 of all time guy somewhere with Mayes, Ruth, Aaron, Josh Gibson(Negro League) maybe you could toss in gehrig, and once A-Rod is done he will slide in there somewhere...
His career slugging average is .607 amaZing.
He has only once (his rookie season) struck out 100 times or more.

The guy is definately the best of his era, and really only gets a bad rap because he is a jerk-off to the media slime bags.
 

BlazeArmy

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I agree with johnnybluenose on this one.

If BOnds wasn't such an absolute prick i don't think the steriods thing would be a huge issue at all. He is a top-5 player all time, maybe the best ever but will neevr get credit for all the things he accomplished in the game.

i is pretty much a given within the media that Roger Clemens was heavily involved with the steriods thing but he gets a free pass for the most par on it because he was an easy guy to get along with. His legacy is being tarnished by his yearly i'll skip first few months and then sign for an extreme amount of money.

The big milestone that was reached in the past few days was Glavine's 300 win. He could be the last 300 win pitcher that any of us will se as teams now have most pictures on pitch counts and 5 man rotations and they tend to baby their arms now as they are so valuable. Most pitchers are lucky to see 32 starts and to win 20 of them a year for 15 years seems to be pretty damn near impossible. Even if you averaged 15 wins a year you would need to pitch for 20 years as a top level guy. I just don't see it happening.
 

Balsa

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As stated already the alleged roids help your body recover faster. Without the alleged roids I personally don't think Bonds would have broken the record. His knees are shot and he is very ineffecive in the field now, he would have retired but the special vitamins have prolonged his career.

I also don't know if you can say Bonds is a top 5 player All-Time. Ruth, Aaron, Mantle, Bench, Wagner, Mays, Brett, Schmidt, Cobb, Williams etc.. But he is definitely a HOF who deserves credit and respect. He is a jerk-off but he could/can flat out play ball. I hope he retires after this year but I think his ego is too big and he will push for the 800 HR plateau. He wants to hold this record for more than a couple years.

There are a couple guys playing right now who have a shot at the record (Pujols, A-Rod) but it will depend on how long they decide to play. It's all about wanting a legacy (or ego) now because players don't play 20 years for the money anymore, they are set financially after 5 years (or less). A suporting cast is important in baseball also. Bonds had Kent and Bonilla to protect him for many years which allowed him to see more pitches. If A-Rod and Pujols get the same luxury then that improves their chances as well. Which at this point they have.

Basically Bonds deserves credit for an amazing career. You can't inject talent and desire into your body, you have it or you don't.
 

Dude

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Roids or other performance enhancers can't help bat speed? Are YOU on drugs?

Of course it can...it really is a no brainer. They also help both short term and long term recovery, meaning he was as fresh as chemically possible each time up to plate, unstead of worn down and tired. Tell me that doesn't affect bat speed, and focus.

Anyhow, drugs or not, the guy is athletically unreal.
 

johnnybluenose

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Balsa, great post...

Nice that you threw all of those names at me.
1. Most Homers ever
2. Best at not striking out ever
3. Gold Gloves
4. Highest Slugging average ever
5. Gotta be in top ten for RBI's
6. 7 MVP's right?

He has quite the list, and if Justice can be served at all (And I'm a Bonds Fan) it is that he hasn't/won't win a World Series
 

BlazeArmy

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George Brett, Mike Schmidt? they are not even the best at their positions ever.

It is 8 gold gloves, 5th all-time RBI's, 3rd in Career runs scored, most walks all time, 3rd best at bat to home run ratio, 4th in all time total bases, 2nd in all times on base.

Things that may surprise you,
He has led the league in home runs only once, and was tied with Juan Gonzalez once.
He 7 times stole over 30 bases and stole 20 or better his first 13 seasons in the league.
He is a 12 time winner of the Silver slugger as best hitter for his position.
His slugging percantage is only 6th all time and his on base percenatage is only 6th as well.
 

The Franchise

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How can Vitamin S Improve your focus?

Home Runs are more about timing, bat speed and the ability to "turn on the ball"

A-Rod is such a special hitter because of his ability to turn on the ball, as is Ken Griffey Jr.

IMHO Roids are more about durability and quicker healing then simply putting on a huge mass of muscle...How many times do you hear about guys getting big (roids or not) and hear of them having to lose weight beacuse it has hampered their flexibility and mobility?

Barry stole over 30 bases 9 seasons, and got to 29 Stolen Bases twice.
He was a gold glove Fielder.
He is easily a top 5 of all time guy somewhere with Mayes, Ruth, Aaron, Josh Gibson(Negro League) maybe you could toss in gehrig, and once A-Rod is done he will slide in there somewhere...
His career slugging average is .607 amaZing.
He has only once (his rookie season) struck out 100 times or more.

The guy is definately the best of his era, and really only gets a bad rap because he is a jerk-off to the media slime bags.

Roids makes you faster, better hand eye (It's been proven) ,hitting the ball further. Check out his hr's pre-drugs then after..

Roids help him acheive this record point blank!!!
 

johnnybluenose

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Here is an argument I would like to hear from everyone on...
1998- McGwire and Sosa do their thing.
Now according to his alleged mistress, she claims that this is when Bonds started on the Cream and Clear ;) because of his jealousy. The proverbial crap hits the fan in September of 03. So we can assume that Bonds only used for seasons 1999-2003, 5 full seasons(assume the worst for the sake of the conversation)...during this time he hit the following
1999- 34HR
2000- 49HR
2001- 73HR
2002- 46HR
2003- 45HR

The only blip (Compared to previous 5 seasons is the 73 number)

Previous 5 Seasons:
1994- 34HR
1995- 33HR
1996- 42HR
1997- 40HR
1998- 37HR
So he maybe hit, all in all, 6 more per year on average, leaving him what...30 shy, plus remove 30 from the inflated 73 number...so 30+30 by my math is 60 dingers that look "off base"...you can't discount every dinger assuming he would be shut out with no Roids. Therefore, he still would have eclipse Aaron's record assuming he plays one or two more years after this one.

Also include that the competition from pitchers got a lot worse...the amount if intentional walks got just stupid, had he not hit the 73 would he have faced that!? Nevermind has he played in a more HR-Friendly Park (Wrigley, Colorado, Shea, Fenway) etc.

Interested to hear your thoughts...

This is interesting, defending Bonds without resorting to the "everyone is dirty" method...

Oh... and Jose Canseco has a special spot reserved in the deepest bowels of hell. ;)
 

Dude

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Thats were your wrong!!! Point blank!!!!!!

Reread my post- complete w/ punctuation- you knucklehead. This is one of the few times I will 100% agree with you. To repeat:

Of course it can...it really is a no brainer. They also help both short term and long term recovery, meaning he was as fresh as chemically possible each time up to plate, unstead of worn down and tired. Tell me that doesn't affect bat speed, and focus.

Understand now Franchise?
 

Balsa

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It is all opinions and what if's when talking about who the greats are. Bonds numbers place him right there. I personally like others better. But as a baseball fan I am not blind to his talent. I respect all his numbers. So many factors come into play when you talk about rating players. Pitchers and catchers play generally shorter careers due to the higher strain on their bodies. Outfielders generally play longer and can add extra numbers to their careers. Medical and training now a days helps also.

Bonds is missing a ring but that can't be placed on his back regarding greatness. I don't think there is one player in MLB who has won a ring by himself.

Our friend Franchise is obviously blind to the world of sport with his Roids issues. It sadly happens in every sport and will never go away. Roids don't improve your hand eye in a sport like baseball. As a matter of fact these hitter don't just guess and get lucky when they are hitting. They learn and study what pitchers want to throw in situations. Pure coordination only gets you through little league. This is why having strong hitters around them really improves their numbers, it becomes tougher to avoid the one hitter.

I am not a Barry fan but I am passionate about baseball and he has alway been able to play. He is deserving of being a HOF player and should be treated that way until it is proven that is cheated in some way.
 

Dude

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This is where I disagree w/ the baseball traditionalist.

We wish that all players made it on pure talent and not physique like John Kruck did, but that isn’t the case.

Hitting a MLB fastball may be one of the single most difficult skills to master in all sports, so from that standpoint along, Bonds is amazing. But, Balsa, you can not deny that in this discipline, where fractions on fractions of improvement can mean the difference between a double and a homer, steroids can’t help a player. Bat speed: absolutely. Focus: absolutely. Why? Recovery. That is the true gift of Vitamin S- it enables athletes to recover much faster, and that includes recovery time between pitches. By recovering faster, a player can maintain better focus, and maintain the bat speed to help him hit the ball out of the park, where maybe without the drugs, he would on occasion be too fatigued to stay after it on a given at bat.

Anyhow, as Balsa also said, nothing is proven.
 

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