2015 Whitecaps

[LION]

Get over that there are empty seats.
What if it was a 100k stadium?
RL RCD. You have zero idea man. Sorry.

Not about lowering your price to fill seats. At all. I could go to any game I want. Have offers most games to go for free from buddies with tickets that can't go.

Have you ever staffed a restaurant with 100 seats but only 60 people show for dinner? And cause you wanted to fill every seat you dropped your prices and still only 60 showed for dinner?
You prepped for 100. Where does that food and staffing that you prepped for go? That's a fast way of losing money and devaluing your product. (Florida Panthers)

And now cause you have this "cheap" clientele base, try up selling them at the table, "bottle of wine?" Would you like to start with an appy?"

"No, we are here for the 2 for 1 pasta night, and some waters".

Cheap crowds are cheap for a reason. Then find some empty mickeys in every bathroom in the building. Along with some broken up fights.

I like the cheap tickets for soccer clubs. At $20 a pop. Can't be cheaper then that.

A fcuking McDonalds meal, burger fries and drink is $8 these days. And your talking $10 tickets? Or bringing their price down by 50%?
What education or experience are you getting this from?
You have no idea man.

If a place has 100 seats, doesn't mean they drop their pants to fill them. It's profits they need. So maybe 40 seats with 3 servers is better that night. And creating a bit of a wait at the door, if it even comes to that.

 

[STD]

I think Lion has said it all but I will point out that during the first year at Empire when tickets were not limited they couldn't sell out and you could get tickets off scalpers for $5 most games and they still were left with tickets. Your argument that cheap will sellout is flawed. Also remember the Whitecaps water front stadium they wanted to build was only going to hold 18,000 as they were coming from a ticket base of only 5,000. They are stuck with a stadium that is way to large for there demand. As a paying customer I am happy to not have to look at an upper bowl with maybe 2000 drunks and rest empty seats with empty pockets of seats all over the lower bowl. Slowly build your demand and you will have a more loyal fan base for the long run.

 

[RL RCD]

Get over that there are empty seats.
What if it was a 100k stadium?
RL RCD. You have zero idea man. Sorry.

Not about lowering your price to fill seats. At all. I could go to any game I want. Have offers most games to go for free from buddies with tickets that can't go.

Have you ever staffed a restaurant with 100 seats but only 60 people show for dinner? And cause you wanted to fill every seat you dropped your prices and still only 60 showed for dinner?
You prepped for 100. Where does that food and staffing that you prepped for go? That's a fast way of losing money and devaluing your product. (Florida Panthers)

And now cause you have this "cheap" clientele base, try up selling them at the table, "bottle of wine?" Would you like to start with an appy?"

"No, we are here for the 2 for 1 pasta night, and some waters".

Cheap crowds are cheap for a reason. Then find some empty mickeys in every bathroom in the building. Along with some broken up fights.

I like the cheap tickets for soccer clubs. At $20 a pop. Can't be cheaper then that.

A fcuking McDonalds meal, burger fries and drink is $8 these days. And your talking $10 tickets? Or bringing their price down by 50%?
What education or experience are you getting this from?
You have no idea man.

If a place has 100 seats, doesn't mean they drop their pants to fill them. It's profits they need. So maybe 40 seats with 3 servers is better that night. And creating a bit of a wait at the door, if it even comes to that.

Lion, you do not get it at all (what I am trying to say). I am not talking about $10 tickets for a general population (who will come once or twice during the season to watch games). I am talking about season ticket holders.



I am talking about those who paid $378 for cheapest tickets (and probably most of them purchased two tickets so that comes to $756 for a season). If the prices were even lower then those people who spent $756 would most likely buy 3 or 4 season tickets (not two). That is putting more butts in those seats.

Drop the prices for teal, white, yellow, blue, and purple sections if you cannot sell them all. Make green, teal, white, and yellow sections all at the price of current green section (if they do not want cheapest tickets to be less than $20 per game).

A "cheap" clientele does not buy season tickets (no matter how cheap those tickets would be). I am talking about having more season ticket holders than current 13,000 or 14,000. A "cheap" client is not somebody who will (in advance) pay $300 or $500 so your comparison with a restaurant is ridiculous, sorry! Beside that, what idiot would wait to go into a restaurant with 100 seats, that has only 3 servers and they put no more than 40 customers in (to serve that night). They are creating artificial demand and I have to wait for that!? Really? That turns away more customers; it does not create a demand!

Even if we forget that upper bowl exists we should apply the same strategy (lowering prices) for a lower bowl only (28,000 seats). Can we agree that those would be (most likely) sold out quickly if the tickets were cheaper? I get it that 55,000 may be a dream but 28,000 should not! But, Bobaduzzi said numerous times that their strategy is different. But, should not the goal be to increase the number of fans every season? If that is not happening what then? Maybe limit the number of tickets to 18,000 and increase the ticket prices to those who are willing to pay (for an intimate atmosphere). Sorry, Lion, soccer is nowhere in this World advertised as an "intimate atmosphere" because that concept simply does not exist.

My 5 cents (for the last time). You can have the hammer if you want.

 

[STD]

I am upset I missed Beckham said "My 5 cents (for the last time). You can have the hammer if you want."

Come on you know that's not true.

My yellow ticket cost me $598.50 after taxes that work out to $32 per game. I am sorry I think that is great value. Now if you want to start complaining about the price of beer at the stadium I've got my pitchfork ready.

 

[Dude]

Dude, when it comes to Economics 101 (and Marketing) I know what I am talking about but you are not paying attention to the fact that I am constantly talking about playing in a stadium that has 55,000 seats (28,000 lover bowl + 27,000 upper bowl).

When you have a 55,000 stadium the goal SHOULD BE to put as many butts in those 55,000 seats as possible but Whitecaps are not doing that. They are trying to artificially create a demand (by limiting the number of seats to 21,000 and ridiculously calling it a sell-out any time they reach that number which alienates a lot of people). They are greedy and they are trying to keep higher prices than necessary.
From that stand-point I am talking about slashing the prices (but Whitecaps are now 5 years too late for that). You cannot build a soccer fan base the same way Canucks built their "fan" base (and Canucks' fan base is really not a fan base; it is a corporate sponsorship; simply, Joe Average, a real fan, cannot afford Canucks season tickets which really shows at Canucks games where half "fans" are checking their e-mails every 30 seconds and not paying any attention to a game).

Did not Whitecaps (5, 6 years ago?) hire actually a marketing guy from Canucks (if I remember)? So, if that is the case (and I believe that is exactly what happened) what could you expect from a marketing guy who was used to promoting tickets to corporations!?
I keep saying that a huge soccer fan base (here in Vancouver) cannot be built like that. In a 55,000 stadium the goal should have been to put that many people in those seats! If you say impossible I'll ask you: Why? How many fans did Whitecaps have during their NASL years? Why would that be impossible now?

Bring a marquee name player, offer cheap season tickets (whole lower bowl so the best seats), sell out those 28,000 season tickets, and then open the upper bowl for general public. It is obviously not working perfectly well at this price structure.

However we look at all this, calling 21,000 a sell-out when even a lower bowl (28,000) is not full is just ridiculous.

Lion already did a bang-up job of shredding your argument, but let me add this...

You want to slice the ticket price by 50% (never mind they are already very good value when compared to other pro sports tickets in this city). That automatically means you need to DOUBLE your crowd just to get back to point A. Sorry, your PAYING crowd.

Next you want to bring in a marquee player, which adds, I don't know, an extra $5-$7m / year (just going by the TFC model). So, you have- at BEST- stayed neutral on revenue (assuming you pack the joint), increased your overhead, and devalued your product. Seriously, that is what you just did. It won't matter that you are (maybe) building a future fan base, you won't have the franchise there in the future.

You can't compare our father's NASL market. The world and sporting landscape has changed too much. Whatever happened back then is completely irrelevant now.

Baby steps. I think you need to get to the point where the Caps are a tough ticket in town to get. They are not that now, they are an easy ticket to get. Easy to find one, and the price is affordable for a familly of 4 to go.

 

[Dude]

BTW, for the few times I have been to a game (4, 5 maybe), of the ticket were never an issue. Same w/ buying seasons. It's been competing priorities. I have too much other stuff going on to commit to a ticket. Every time I've gone, I've had fun, and have left telling myself I need to get season's tickets.

I bet guys like me are plentiful. What I may do, though, is if the Caps were to call me and say, "Hey, Mr. Corporate guy, how would you like to buy a season's ticket package for underprivalledged kids. You buy two tickets, and we distribute them to local underprivaledged kids organizations. Your company name goes up in a special sponsor's section."

Sell a couple of the upper bowl sections for Lion's $20.00 / game figure. Actually attach a value to it, and have a means of ensuring these kids and a chaperone (i.e.: Big Brother, YMCA) get to the match. For ~$450.00 / year? I'd do that in a heartbeat. THAT is creative marketing: fan generation, charitable goodwill, and corporate promotion all in one...and you don't have to give a fcuking cent away to do it.

 

[STD]

http://www.kidsupfrontvancouver.com/

Sometimes you have to help Mr. Corporate big shot out Regs will post your name up on his website.

 

[Dude]

Thanks, this is quite cool and I will look into it more. I like stuff like this.

That said, what I'm talking about is a Whitecap's driven campaign, something they take control and ownership of. It'd be unique in this city, so far as I understand....

 

[Regs]

Caps are a community partner:

http://www.kidsupfrontvancouver.com/news/whitecaps-fc-announce-kids-up-front-official-partner/

 

[STD]

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/community/charitable-programs

Looks like Regs is a little faster than me but the girls tell me speed isn't everything.

 

[Dude]

Again, it's not the Cap's running the campaign. I'm not sure how much $$$ Kid's up front can put into marketing dollars, but I suspect since (I assume) its a Not for Profit, that amount is zero.

I'm talking about an actual, Whistecaps initiated sales campaign, treated just like any other call-out campaign / marketing effort. It's great that they partner w/ Kid's up Front, but that is a limited capacity thing, plus it relies heavily on private sector donation to the charity. What I'm suggesting is something that would push more tickets into charities like this, and others, while actively seeking revenue.

 

[Regs]

There hasn't been a chick in my lifetime that didn't 'compliment' me on how quickly I get to the finish line, that is true.

 

[bandcamp]

There hasn't been a chick in my lifetime that didn't 'compliment' me on how quickly I get to the finish line, that is true.

"I thought it was a race."

 

[dutch13]

All this debate because RL couldn't buy a ticket to see Beckham the day of...

Honestly, I find it mind bottling that we don't open the rest of the lower bowl for Seattle/Portland games. I wouldn't go near opening the upper bowl, as it devalues the atmosphere and product. Call it what you want (intimate) but the atmosphere at Whitecaps game is way better than the Lions or Canucks, and I think you have to attribute it to the fact that every available seat is filled. 6000 empty ones scattered around could be a buzzkill.

Your argument that if they drop season tickets by 50% I'll go from buying a pair to 2 pairs is well... completely incorrect. Also, if price is that much of a factor to your fan base, and all they can afford is a $5 or $10 ticket, good luck getting them to buy an $8 beer... Like someone said suddenly your finding mickeys in the washroom and fights in the upper bowl. I bet if you studied the $$ spent at concessions in higher priced seating areas (with exception to piss tank destination seats like the SS) you would see where you're really making your money.

I like to think the Whitecaps have a game plan that we simply don't see, and they justify the loss of potential revenue from the extra few thousand seats by not risking devaluing their brand. Once they go down that road, you can't get back especially given the still prevalent sentiment towards Soccer and the MLS in North America vs the big 4 leagues.

 

[cascadesoccer]

Rivero!!!!!!

 

[STD]

Really liking Rivero and not just for scoring goals. It is nice to finally have a forward that can link up and play with the players around him and not just run fast at the defenders. Speaking of defenders I really don't feel good about the makeup on the back line. They are very good at defending crosses but they look disorganize and clumsy at times. Also I think Laba plays better when he is by himself sitting in front of the back four and this is not an unhealthy criticism of Tiebert. We are going to get exposed defensively when we play teams like LA or Seattle if something doesn't change.

 

[Dude]

Really liking Rivero and not just for scoring goals. It is nice to finally have a forward that can link up and play with the players around him and not just run fast at the defenders. Speaking of defenders I really don't feel good about the makeup on the back line. They are very good at defending crosses but they look disorganize and clumsy at times. Also I think Laba plays better when he is by himself sitting in front of the back four and this is not an unhealthy criticism of Tiebert. We are going to get exposed defensively when we play teams like LA or Seattle if something doesn't change.

On that note, I took the extra effort to watch Tiebert Saturday, to try and put myself in the shoes of the unhealthily obsessed, and see what they see.

Am I nuts? I didn't see it on Saturday. I see, as you pointed out, a bigger problem with the organization of the back line than the holding mids. I thought they both did their jobs well (Laba doing his kick-everyone-in-reach routine, Tiebert closing down quickly and forcing the play wide, or back).

Did he stand out for me? No- neither defensively or offensively. He wasn't glarring in his errors. He wasn't noticeable as, say, Mexida, going forward, but again, that wasn't his role.

I'd still like to see Koffie in there, and him playing more as a box-to-box CMFer. I agree that Laba is fine on his own. He's proven that.

Our two CBs scare me.

I like Mexida, and he's now going to get a real shot, as well as perhaps another one of the young guys further down the pecking order. Like that.

 

[Regs]

I also paid closer attention to Tiebert on Saturday... FWIW, it's hard to be critical because I'm not too sure what exactly his role is at this point other than taking away Koffie's time on the pitch which I think is bad. Koffie is way stronger on the ball which I think works better for our system in linking between Laba and Pedro... more upside moving forward as well.

Maybe it is simply Tiebert is in better shape at this point of the season (isn't he known for being the fittest?) and Koffie will start more often as the season wears on - we do have all the CCL stuff to contend with this year.

Sam at left back was awesome - laughable to hear TSN say Harvey needed a mental break after 1 game

 

[STD]

I like Mezquida he brought a lot of energy and creativity to the game when he came in and linked up well with well with Rivero. He needs to work on a few things to be a regular starter like finishing and I also felt he drifts into the middle a lot. I think if Robinson starts him out wide teams are going to exploit that side of the field. I would rather see the centre of the midfield as Laba defensively with Moralas and Mezguida in front of him. If we are keeping Tiebert on put him out wide.

 

[STD]

Here is a couple of quotes from and article on the Sounders and Centry Link field

" The Sounders have sold out 109 consecutive matches at the stadium "

"Hanauer added that the team’s ultimate goal is to continue selling out every home game – while also fully opening the top decks at CenturyLink that increase the stadium capacity to 67,000. The Sounders perennially lead MLS in attendance, drawing almost 40,000 fans per game."

Hopefully RL RCD doesn't hear that they have been calling games sell outs when there have been empty seats available. Drawing almost 40,000 in a 67,000 seat stadium and you call it a sell out, only Lenarduzzi would think of doing that. Now if they slash their ticket prices in half they could draw and extra 27,000 and sell more beer.