VMSL Division 1 Rinos and Human Rights

[Soccer Coach]

As you know, next year Rino's Soccer club will enter three teams in Division 1.
One of the teams has been allegedly receiving funds from Saudi Arabia during three years, so the team could go from Division 3 all the way to Premier. The team has been premiered in the Saudi media.

It is commendable that Saudi Arabia is committing money for the development of their MALE athletes overseas.

However, we ask the non-Saudi players and non-Saudi coaches and managers (Rinos) to reflect their association as manner of principle. The treatment of women (banned from playing sports or driving or attending stadiums) and the serious Human Rights abuses that the Saudi government is committing are really horrendous.



If you receive money to play, coach, or manage a team that is receiving funds from Saudi Arabia ask yourself, why I should take this money when it could go towards girls and women playing the game or towards the protection of VERY basic Human Rights?

We openly encourage Rino coaches to reconsider their situation and involvement.

 

[Soccer Coach]

 

[akslop]

I feel sorry for any children you might have fathered.

 

[Soccer Coach]

of course...people just like to receive money without questioning where is coming from or what political agenda is following?
do you think that there is no political agenda for a government to fund a team in Canada and then send the news back to Saudi Arabia?

 

[Soccer Coach]

@akslop; if you want that I simplify it for you. The whole team is a form of propaganda. This is why it appears on Saudi TV sports (which is highly regulated by the government) channel and they make video and highlights. Of course; they are not stupid. They make sure that they put the team in competitions when they can beat the opposition most of the time. The issue; who is willing to lend themselves to the propaganda of a regime that violates human rights and oppresses women?

I know some people are just used to put on a shirt and kick a ball and feel their ego massaged for receiving money, but they never think of why is this really happening? do you think that this team appeared out of the blue out of generosity? It fulfills a political tool.

 

[bulljive]

So you're saying Campo isnt paying with Saudi Money then? Interesting, so who is funding the squad ?

 

[Soccer Coach]

So you're saying Campo isnt paying with Saudi Money then? Interesting, so who is funding the squad ?

I regret when people try to be cheeky and in the process obscure serious issue for our league. We do not play players and will never have the budget that the people of Saudi Arabia have. They have ruined our league over the years by creating this hugely imbalanced teams. The people from Rino's where quite correct on denouncing and opposing them, but then (and this is part that upset me and why I am critical of them) Rinos also got "bought" with premier spot. It was a very clever move from the management of the Tigers. They joined forces with the club who was exposing and opposing them to silence them.

In summary, the buy players, but at some moment the realized that the needed to "buy" a local club to gain legitimacy. This is the purpose that a historical club like Rinos has been used for. I really regret that the people from Rinos did not see it.

Please also notice that there are no videos of the Tigers losing. They only manufacture and distribute videos of the Tigers squashing other teams. Of course, they do not tell the audience of the huge imbalance between the playing teams or that they are paying players and the others not.



I really hope that the management of Rinos reflects on the issue. They can have their two teams and let the Tigers go and do their own stuff.

I also hope that the players who receive money reflect and think about it.

Watch the videos. They have an audience in mind and it is not our local audience.
I would not have a problem if they would be competing in Premier and make it fair competition.

We do not need a division with three teams from the same club and on top one of those teams operating a huge budget.
I do not think that this is right nor healthy for our teams and players in the VMSL.

 

[bulljive]

Who's that number 11, that's guys a quality player.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Who's that number 11, that's guys a quality player.

"Truth is like poetry.
And most people fu%#ng hate poetry."
Do you know in which movie this quote appeared?

 

[Soccer Coach]

 

[SmartCoach]

Who's that number 11, that's guys a quality player.

Didier Drogba #11

 

[Soccer Coach]

Didier Drogba #11

Eric Cantona reminding us that the game is more than just kicking the ball.
"Football like all sport should be a force for good, but too often we hear of human rights being overlooked within and around the game."
I sincerely believe that Rino's management has the conscience to do what is right for the league and and players, and they will not lend themselves to be used for propaganda purposes.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Not sure I really want 3 page manifesto that no doubt accompanies this but...

@Soccer Coach just curious what your end game here is? You have laid out your case against Rinos, it's certainly fairly damning and we can all take from it what we will and draw our own conclusions. Similarly, many here have leveled various accusations at yourself and your club from which we again, will all draw our own conclusions.

I am just not sure where all of this is going. You have made your point and the Rinos camp up to now has chosen not to be drawn into a public debate with you on these forums. Fair enough. Now you are on a human rights crusade, which, while noble, seems short sighted. Certainly I would be surprised to find anybody here who would disagree with your points about the inherent freedoms we all deserve, but some in this world are denied. Similarly, no one here is going to deny that the paying of players in amateur leagues makes it an uneven playing field; this has been well documented in numerous threads here over the years.

So to what end then? If your goal is to unite us all against Rinos and their perceived monopolizing of Div 1, there may have been a better way to go about it. There was plenty of rumblings about "something needing to be done" before your crusade began, but now the focus has been shifted. If your goal is to have their alleged Saudi financier denounced and potentially deported (again?), I would suggest that it will take more that personal assertions and hand picked YouTube videos for that to be achieved. If you are trying to put up a smokescreen to cover any of Campo's alleged transgressions, I think you may have hit Lady Macbeth territory "Me thinks thou doth protest too much..."

But if your goal is simply to SPAM this forum and make it a less enticing place to interact, then well done, I think you've covered this one off. Your partisanship and unapologetic fervor for your club were polarizing, but interesting and certainly made for interesting conversation. I would even call it refreshing and it spurred on traffic to these boards where it was a much more lively place than in the most recent seasons. Lately however, your constant politicizing and preaching has grown tiresome. There are many problems in this world, and many better places to discuss them than here, where many wish to discuss the local soccer landscape. While it is true that sometimes these worlds will cross, as they do when we discuss the paying of amateur players, most here are looking for something similar to what they get once a week for 90 minutes: An Escape. A chance to forget about problems and turmoil and just have fun competing with their mates. No one is sticking their head in the sand, no one denies these things exist, and to varying degrees we all want to solve these problems.

But we also want a chance to exist outside of them, and that's why we come here. There are several political forums and message boards where your passion could be put to better use. Personally, I look forward to reading more of your reports about Campo's performance on the field and then the onslaught of dissenting opinions that follow I hope you can get back to that...

 

[Sir M]

He is insecure and aches for attention. It's not rocket science.

 

[bulljive]

He knows his side can't compete, that's what this is really about. Not some human rights morality issue. How many guys were saying no to Playing for POCO when the team was funded, needless to say that money wasn't coming from a great place either.

 

[Soccer Coach]

He knows his side can't compete, that's what this is really about. Not some human rights morality issue. How many guys were saying no to Playing for POCO when the team was funded, needless to say that money wasn't coming from a great place either.

Thank you for this reply. I just will point out to the crush that Rinos Fury and GN suffered at our hands. There are at least two teams that we can beat for sure. In addition, given what we have seen with Bingers Army; I can predict a placing between 8th and 10th place.

 

[Soccer Coach]

He is insecure and aches for attention. It's not rocket science.

Well certainly two cups in one season gives me a great sense of insecurity. It is about the fact that it is odd and unhealthy for fair competition to have three teams from the same club colluding in one division and on top one of them with a significant budget.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Not sure I really want 3 page manifesto that no doubt accompanies this but...

@Soccer Coach just curious what your end game here is? You have laid out your case against Rinos, it's certainly fairly damning and we can all take from it what we will and draw our own conclusions. Similarly, many here have leveled various accusations at yourself and your club from which we again, will all draw our own conclusions.

I am just not sure where all of this is going. You have made your point and the Rinos camp up to now has chosen not to be drawn into a public debate with you on these forums. Fair enough. Now you are on a human rights crusade, which, while noble, seems short sighted. Certainly I would be surprised to find anybody here who would disagree with your points about the inherent freedoms we all deserve, but some in this world are denied. Similarly, no one here is going to deny that the paying of players in amateur leagues makes it an uneven playing field; this has been well documented in numerous threads here over the years.

So to what end then? If your goal is to unite us all against Rinos and their perceived monopolizing of Div 1, there may have been a better way to go about it. There was plenty of rumblings about "something needing to be done" before your crusade began, but now the focus has been shifted. If your goal is to have their alleged Saudi financier denounced and potentially deported (again?), I would suggest that it will take more that personal assertions and hand picked YouTube videos for that to be achieved. If you are trying to put up a smokescreen to cover any of Campo's alleged transgressions, I think you may have hit Lady Macbeth territory "Me thinks thou doth protest too much..."

But if your goal is simply to SPAM this forum and make it a less enticing place to interact, then well done, I think you've covered this one off. Your partisanship and unapologetic fervor for your club were polarizing, but interesting and certainly made for interesting conversation. I would even call it refreshing and it spurred on traffic to these boards where it was a much more lively place than in the most recent seasons. Lately however, your constant politicizing and preaching has grown tiresome. There are many problems in this world, and many better places to discuss them than here, where many wish to discuss the local soccer landscape. While it is true that sometimes these worlds will cross, as they do when we discuss the paying of amateur players, most here are looking for something similar to what they get once a week for 90 minutes: An Escape. A chance to forget about problems and turmoil and just have fun competing with their mates. No one is sticking their head in the sand, no one denies these things exist, and to varying degrees we all want to solve these problems.

But we also want a chance to exist outside of them, and that's why we come here. There are several political forums and message boards where your passion could be put to better use. Personally, I look forward to reading more of your reports about Campo's performance on the field and then the onslaught of dissenting opinions that follow I hope you can get back to that...

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

To answer the question, the end game is to make all parties reflect on the situation and hopefully this will prompt each side to take some action to change the current situation.

Lets start with each party:
a) Rinos management. They can reconsider their position with respect to their Tigers and their practices. There were people in the Rinos camp who were very opposed and vocal against the actions of the Tigers. This shows that they have a conscience.
Perhaps it was just a moment of weakness, when they were offered the Premier spot.

Anyone can make an error. I sincerely hope that they re-evaluate. They can severe ties with the Tigers, and swap one of their spots with one of the teams in Division 2.

This will restore the competitiveness of the division without the league having to pass a motion at the next AGM or other teams having to go through a year of an adulterated division.

b) The Tigers themselves.There still hope that they reflect and realize that this is not way to do things here. Sometimes people might really not be aware of the effects and damaging effect of their actions. They might think we just have the money. We can not get caught, so lets just keep doing it.

c) The players who receive the money. Many players are truly not aware of the implications. I met once with a former Tigers player from Europe who know is back in Europe. I asked him why he was doing it. He said it felt great. He put an add on a website. They immediately contacted him. They payed registration. Gave him new uniforms and shoes. He was driven around to the games in car and received nice money. He was not aware of were the money was coming from or for what purposes. When we discussed the politics of the Middle East. He was horrified (rightly). He told me that he would not have done or received the money.
Essentially they are using players for propaganda purposes and most players do not know it. Do you really want to play for people who think that women should not play the game or that is okey to behead and crucify people even for many minor transgressions on the eyes of the world?
This is no the work of one man. Saudi TV and media is highly regulated. If it appears on their media and they are manufacturing videos for distribution it means that there is government support.

d) The Tiger players of Saudi origin. Eventually they are going to go back. Hopefully, they start to be aware of how we see things here in Canada and perhaps they might help those who are trying to change things over there.

e) Other teams in the league. It is a small community. Perhaps the information makes people see from a different angle and persuade Rinos and Tigers to do things differently.

So to answer your question one more time; the end game is only to make people reflect and reconsider what they are doing.

As for your other comments, this is the summer. The forum is usually dead. If you do not like my posts. Simple ignore them.
I know that I have generated more traffic than the opposite.

You do not have to read them. You are welcome to go back to your fantasy world where there is no human right abuses and women are not prevented to play the game and people just play without a social or political context.
You know reading about the plight of other people just takes one or two minutes of your time. Sending a letter or a petition might save a persons life. Who knows? Maybe someone took the time to read about human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia. Took the time to write a letter and that sole action might save a person from unfair imprisoment.

Yes, I will go back to soccer related game commentary once the season starts. In the meantime, if you have one minute. Read the following link. Executing 115 people by beheading them or crucifixtion is not a trivial issue, nor is flogging them for just posting an opinion on the internet, and beleive it or not you can do something about it by signing a petition or taking the time to write a letter. It works. People can be saved.
http://www.amnesty.ca/news/saudi-arabia-year-bloody-repression-flogging-raif-badawi

 

[Rangerforever]

Cuc-koo

 

[Soccer Coach]

Cuc-koo

Perhaps it seems cuc-koo. If this is the case, would you mind to provide an explanation to the events?
Why Rinos is very critical of the Tigers for paying players and then stops as soon as they join together and are offered a Premier stop?
Why all this highly skilled players rush to join the Tigers every time that there are certain people in their management?
Why someone would pour so much resources in a team? (we are literally talking dozens of thousands of dollars)
Why Rinos-Tigers lost all the games in Premier? (do you know that this was not coincedence? the coach was telling the players to keep possession and not to worry about scoring. There was no effort on them to win the games.).
Why they wanted to keep the team in Division 1?
Why the VMSL is featured in the Saudi media?

Have the Tigers and Rino skewed the competition in the league in the last season and this upcoming season?

How do we explain all this?