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[TTP Bookie] 2008 Summer Olypmics - Over/Under for Medals won by Canada

Dude

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Who really cares!?
The Summer Olympics is insignificant for most Canadians.

We consume the games on TV and such, but seriously, why throw money at it like some of the other countries do? We are a nation, for the most part, that is covered in snow or has poor weather year round.

The money is being spent properly on the Winter games where our athletes can truly shine.

Look at the Olympic superstars of years past for the Summer games, most have been trasnplanted Canadians from Africa and the Carribean (Donovan Bailey, Daniel Igali, etc...)

Sure our swimming and diving team used ot be good, but seriously...We cannot compete with the States and China's of the world, at least not in the summer. Their chemists are waaaaaay better than ours at developing good masking agents ;)

Look for a top 3 medal finish here in 2010. the Skiing teams are dominating on the world cup circuit, the Hockey is always great, the resources are being poured into that stuff, and that is where the money will return greater dividends.

That truly is bullshit.

Ask yourself this Johnny...how many kids in Canada are going to take up bobsledding? XC Skiing? Alpine Ski Racing? Luge? Skeleton?

We have a very select few individual sports that actually appeal to the masses. They are:

~Hockey
~Speed skating
~and...erm...what else? Even speed skating is questionable anywhere but essentially Quebec. If you say curling I'll puke. KNVB enjoys figure skating, but that is for other reasons.

Kids play summer sports here, like they do everywhere. Go through that list, and it is long and deep. We absolutely fail at developing further than the purest of grassroots levels. We introduce these kids to all these great activities, and as quickly as we have them, we lose them. When they get to a certain level, high level coaching and funding simply either doesn’t exist, or if it does exist, the athlete is required to make a massive financial sacrifice just to stay on board.

How many parents do you know that have their kids involved in gymnastics? I know several. Swimming? Same thing. Track & field in schools, volleyball, basketball, wrestling…we have the grassroots infrastructure to these sports already. Why are we failing miserably at the highest levels? It’s not just the drugs, it is the whole package. Our best athletes are living in poverty while they compete against well funded, high performance, high result oriented nations. The athletes themselves are already defeated before they get to the starting gate.

Drugs aside, it is hugely important for kids to have sporting role models to look up to, in all aspects. Not all kids fit the cookie cutter model for hockey and soccer. I know fewer parents than ever who can afford to take their kids skiing, much less get them involved in a high performance program. Kids want to be involved, but sometimes they need to be inspired. You can’t argue that it doesn’t work. It does. It creates better citizens overall, and positive moral for the rest of the country.

There is an election coming up, and I’d love it if Harper comes out and says “We are going to invest in our athletes, and here is why…”

Then stand by it. It’ll be exactly what the opposition wants, but if argued properly, I bet he’d win more votes for that platform than he’d lose. Problem is, it is too risky. People want to talk about health care, education, and the economy, but want to ignore a certain element of our society that can definitely help in improving all those areas.
 

The Franchise

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They need to add hunting! I bet if they threw a live deer or elk in a stadium a Canadian would be able to pick off Bambi to win gold...I would go as far as to say they would clean up in this event with all the medals.

:bronco::)
 

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johnnybluenose

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Dude,

fair points.

Listen, Swimming...That is level playing field, whether you are on Antarctica or Australia, why? Because anyone swimming is mostly doing so in an indoor pool.

who is killing us? USA & China mostly...look at their population, look at ours. Point settled
JBN 1 : Dude 0
Track and Field
again, population combined with elements, generally speaking, where the greater populace resides as far as climate...China and the States (the two Olympic bastions of excellence) have warmer climes in general and waaay more population
JBN 2 : Dude 0
Volleyball
Whether Gym Volleyball or Beach Volleyball, there are other nations that can compete along with the States and so on, Brazil, Australia, Italy...This is a crap shoot...in the Gym the NCAA program will probably be the trump card along with the pro circuits in Italy and Spain...Advantage everyone other than Damn Canada. Just because our kids play volleyball in PE in School doesn't mean we should be a medal threat at the Olympics
JBN 3 : Dude 0 (you're getting shut out here man, what's going on?)
Basketball:
Ok, this is on a tee for me.
The States has the NBA, and how many Canadians play in the NBA? Not many, and the two best have decided to not play or retire from the Canadian program in Steve Nash and Jamal MacGlore...Aside from the States the Argentines, The French, and most notably the Baltic Nations along with Spain, Italy and Germany kill us. They send pros, we send NCAA bench players. 'nuff said (Money will not fix this issue)
JBN 4: Dude 0 (it's getting scary)

Now look at the Winter Games...These are fringe sports at best aside from Sports relating skating and alpine sports. These sports are all sports Canadians can compete on a global scale because largely populated nations do not generally reside in areas of the world where these activities are accessible. I remember reading that it was considered amazing that Anze Kopitar made the NHL because Slovenia (A former part of the Yugoslavia) has 7 ice rinks in the country. There are more than 7 sheets of Ice in Langley!!! How many world class Ski resorts are in close proximity to large cities in the States? None really, Nevada and Colorado have some great ski hills, and I'm sure there are some nice ones in the East...

here in just metro vancouver we have what, 5 different places to ski within a 2 hour drive (Cypress, Whistler, Blackcomb, Grouse, Seymour, The one in Agassiz) and then not too too far to Revelstoke, Big White, Apex, Mount Baldy, Manning. Calgary has C.O.P. there is Kanaskis, Banff, Lake Lousie, Mont Blanc, other great places in Eastern Canada.

Large populaces like the States need to throw money at athletes to develop into world class athletes at this level in these sports, Canadians do as well, but it is an easier mission to accomplish IMHO...

I am not trying to say who cares altogether, in summary notice I am being a bit facetious at times, it is nothing personal...I just think the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference, and Canadians are typically apathetic/indifferent/passive when it comes to things that don't really matter all that much...and the summer games just really don't matter, at least to me...and that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.
 

girth

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We make the fastest pedal bikes in the world...problem is we put the slowest atheletes on them.
 

Dude

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Dude,

fair points.

Listen, Swimming...That is level playing field, whether you are on Antarctica or Australia, why? Because anyone swimming is mostly doing so in an indoor pool.

who is killing us? USA & China mostly...look at their population, look at ours. Point settled
JBN 1 : Dude 0
Track and Field
again, population combined with elements, generally speaking, where the greater populace resides as far as climate...China and the States (the two Olympic bastions of excellence) have warmer climes in general and waaay more population
JBN 2 : Dude 0
Volleyball
Whether Gym Volleyball or Beach Volleyball, there are other nations that can compete along with the States and so on, Brazil, Australia, Italy...This is a crap shoot...in the Gym the NCAA program will probably be the trump card along with the pro circuits in Italy and Spain...Advantage everyone other than Damn Canada. Just because our kids play volleyball in PE in School doesn't mean we should be a medal threat at the Olympics
JBN 3 : Dude 0 (you're getting shut out here man, what's going on?)
Basketball:
Ok, this is on a tee for me.
The States has the NBA, and how many Canadians play in the NBA? Not many, and the two best have decided to not play or retire from the Canadian program in Steve Nash and Jamal MacGlore...Aside from the States the Argentines, The French, and most notably the Baltic Nations along with Spain, Italy and Germany kill us. They send pros, we send NCAA bench players. 'nuff said (Money will not fix this issue)
JBN 4: Dude 0 (it's getting scary)

Now look at the Winter Games...These are fringe sports at best aside from Sports relating skating and alpine sports. These sports are all sports Canadians can compete on a global scale because largely populated nations do not generally reside in areas of the world where these activities are accessible. I remember reading that it was considered amazing that Anze Kopitar made the NHL because Slovenia (A former part of the Yugoslavia) has 7 ice rinks in the country. There are more than 7 sheets of Ice in Langley!!! How many world class Ski resorts are in close proximity to large cities in the States? None really, Nevada and Colorado have some great ski hills, and I'm sure there are some nice ones in the East...

here in just metro vancouver we have what, 5 different places to ski within a 2 hour drive (Cypress, Whistler, Blackcomb, Grouse, Seymour, The one in Agassiz) and then not too too far to Revelstoke, Big White, Apex, Mount Baldy, Manning. Calgary has C.O.P. there is Kanaskis, Banff, Lake Lousie, Mont Blanc, other great places in Eastern Canada.

Large populaces like the States need to throw money at athletes to develop into world class athletes at this level in these sports, Canadians do as well, but it is an easier mission to accomplish IMHO...

I am not trying to say who cares altogether, in summary notice I am being a bit facetious at times, it is nothing personal...I just think the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference, and Canadians are typically apathetic/indifferent/passive when it comes to things that don't really matter all that much...and the summer games just really don't matter, at least to me...and that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.




Honestly, shut the fcuk up.

You are typical Canadian, full of excuses. I love my country, but this is the one area where I always get my back up. I'm told I'm too competitive in everyday life (business, dwindling abilities athletically, hungry-hungry-hippo), but seriously, it's easy to be too competitive when everyone else is just happy to be mediocre. Why should we be happy w/ athletic mediocrity? We're a wealthy nation, with the infrastructure in place. It wouldn't take much.

We are being beaten in swimming by the Australians. What is your excuse now? They are a warmer climate, therefore spend all their time outside swimming? They have indoor pools too, you know.

France? Italy? GBR? Japan?

On every single team sport you listed, we absolutely have the athletes, grassroots, and infrastructure. No doubt. You pointed out a major difference: NCAA.

In this country, we have soft, limp Liberals who think it is "unfair" to every non-athlete student to grant full-ride scholarships. The CIAU (or whatever they are now called) are losing our best athletes every year to the US, where they are essentially treated like imports are in overseas soccer. The domestic kid in the US will always get the starting nod over an equally talented Canadian. To get the benefit of the doubt, and training, you have to get down there BETTER.

Solution in those sports: keep the athletes here. Allow our Universities like UBC to grant full ride scholarships. Should the NCAA change their legislation to allow Canadian schools (as it appears imminent w/ UBC), embrace that model, and run with it.

JBN, back to your winter analogy, the US is still producing better skiers than we are. Go look at the WC lists. Many are from California. Canada is starting to get the swagger back, thanks to Ken Reed, but look at what our idiot Liberal minded executive go do...they have the man resign for conflict of interest reasons. Seems his son is too good, having now qualified for Canadian funding. So, Mr. Reed, who single handedly has saved the Alpine program, and who has brought up a great kid, who is also a great Canadian athlete, is required to step down. He does a great job both w/ his assignment and family, and he's fired for that? Only in Canadian PC land is this allowed to happen.

Our neighbors may be complete ****wads internationally in terms of their politics, and the general population may be full of themselves, but one thing they've always done better than us: COMPETE. They are great at sports not because of their population, but because of their will. They put the money in.

We don't have to match their total contribution; just look at it on an equivalent, smaller scale. Copy the Australians. They have a smaller population than us. Hell, copy any of the European models.

JBN, you get on here and you're 100% bang on w/ regards to the Canadian Soccer program issues, and what needs to be done. We all know it: invest in our athletes, and give them better competition.

The problem is exactly the same in all the summer sports we are falling short in. We can't expect our athletes to live in poverty and compete for a medal. They are doing their best, but it is the mice sitting in a room w/ elephants.
 

Dude

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We make the fastest pedal bikes in the world...problem is we put the slowest atheletes on them.


Yes, we build great bikes. Svien Tuff came in 7th (I think) in Time Trial. Sven lives- literally- out of a trailer, racing the US / Canada Pro circuit because his Canadian pro team lost it's sponsorship, and they can't meet overhead.

7th amongst a star studden European field is fan-fcuking-tastic.

Svien will be racing in Europe next year, quite possibly as a team leader. He'll finally get paid, but not because of CCA efforts, but because he has the heart and will of a lion to overcome a system that works against him.

That's the case with any succesful rider we have- and we have a good handful of world class riders. They rise above the poverty, mediocrity, and PC dominated training / selection process of CCA, and make it as pros. No domestic help or influence.

Both Canadian BMXers (Cools and Erwood) cut their teeth racing on ABA tracks (American BMX Association- Erwood's home track is in Langley), not CCA. ABA is a FOR PROFIT amature / pro circuit. The National ABA Series race up here in Kelowna this weekend will outdraw the Canadian National Championships, held earlier this year in Abby. There will be more Canadian pros in Kelowna, even w/ out Erwood. Why? Money.
 

Dude

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Yes. Every year there is a new sport, Canada does well.

Samantha Cools has a good shot at 3 spot. Erwood's field is super competitive- 24 of the top men can qualify for the main 8 on any given weekend. It is super stacked. Latvia qualified 3 guys, as did US (obviously), France, Austrailia, and I think Netherlands. That being said, when the gate drops, there are no alliances.

I don't know how they base gate assignments in prelims. If it is random, it will be a crap shoot. If based on time trials, Erwood will be looking at a great gate selection.

The inside lane is murder on that track, but if the rider is fast out of the gate, lane 8 (outside) is great.
 

Regs

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Well if the Canadians can just get a personal best time, I think that will be really good. And if they manage to beat National records that would be really, really awesome.

Fcuk I feel jaded this morning. I need to get laid.

Be back in 2.

:D
 

girth

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Seriously go for a Canadian made bike ride this morning regs...then fire one off into a napkin if you choose.
 

girth

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We just got 4th place in shot put...and with our luck we missed bronze by 1 cm.

Here we go again regs for you ... a centimeter short again!
 

johnnybluenose

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Honestly, shut the fcuk up.

You are typical Canadian, full of excuses. I love my country, but this is the one area where I always get my back up. I'm told I'm too competitive in everyday life (business, dwindling abilities athletically, hungry-hungry-hippo), but seriously, it's easy to be too competitive when everyone else is just happy to be mediocre. Why should we be happy w/ athletic mediocrity? We're a wealthy nation, with the infrastructure in place. It wouldn't take much.

We are being beaten in swimming by the Australians. What is your excuse now? They are a warmer climate, therefore spend all their time outside swimming? They have indoor pools too, you know.

France? Italy? GBR? Japan?

On every single team sport you listed, we absolutely have the athletes, grassroots, and infrastructure. No doubt. You pointed out a major difference: NCAA.

In this country, we have soft, limp Liberals who think it is "unfair" to every non-athlete student to grant full-ride scholarships. The CIAU (or whatever they are now called) are losing our best athletes every year to the US, where they are essentially treated like imports are in overseas soccer. The domestic kid in the US will always get the starting nod over an equally talented Canadian. To get the benefit of the doubt, and training, you have to get down there BETTER.

Solution in those sports: keep the athletes here. Allow our Universities like UBC to grant full ride scholarships. Should the NCAA change their legislation to allow Canadian schools (as it appears imminent w/ UBC), embrace that model, and run with it.

JBN, back to your winter analogy, the US is still producing better skiers than we are. Go look at the WC lists. Many are from California. Canada is starting to get the swagger back, thanks to Ken Reed, but look at what our idiot Liberal minded executive go do...they have the man resign for conflict of interest reasons. Seems his son is too good, having now qualified for Canadian funding. So, Mr. Reed, who single handedly has saved the Alpine program, and who has brought up a great kid, who is also a great Canadian athlete, is required to step down. He does a great job both w/ his assignment and family, and he's fired for that? Only in Canadian PC land is this allowed to happen.

Our neighbors may be complete ****wads internationally in terms of their politics, and the general population may be full of themselves, but one thing they've always done better than us: COMPETE. They are great at sports not because of their population, but because of their will. They put the money in.

We don't have to match their total contribution; just look at it on an equivalent, smaller scale. Copy the Australians. They have a smaller population than us. Hell, copy any of the European models.

JBN, you get on here and you're 100% bang on w/ regards to the Canadian Soccer program issues, and what needs to be done. We all know it: invest in our athletes, and give them better competition.

The problem is exactly the same in all the summer sports we are falling short in. We can't expect our athletes to live in poverty and compete for a medal. They are doing their best, but it is the mice sitting in a room w/ elephants.

In Case you didn't notice I was endeavoring to wind you up mate...TTP and all that jazz, at least partially.

I agree with 99.9% of what you posted there. I truly don't care though, that is my opinion that I am entitled to, I really don't give a toss about the Summer Games. and as such would rather the money get siphoned into the winter games.

as far as my scoring system, I know you are uber-competitive, hence the scoring system ;)

Canadians are apathetic and passive when it comes to these things. It sums up pretty much everything in this damn country from war to politics, to athletics, to schools and education, whatever.

examples:
having been force fed Blue Jays baseball in lieu of a live broadcast of Canada vs Jamaica in stage III WCQ August 20th
having been force fed Maple Leafs hockey EVERY week while us Canucks fans get the shaft from the Communist Broadcast corporation (CBC)
having Ontario singlehandedly electing the Liberals for a second term after fiasco after fiasco, finally even they were fed up enough to get a minority Conservative Govt last time around
Your CIS example of no full ride scholarships
What is happening to Ken Reed is a joke!
the list goes on and on...
 

Dude

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Those Malasians come from a wealthy nation, you know. They can afford FCUKING SPARE PARTS for their equipment.

Christ on a broken down unicycle.
 

BlazeArmy

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I'm thinking the over is definitely going to come through on this. With thw kayaker still going and other events where we have a chance to medal, 15 medals should be no problem.

cartbeforethehorse~

Blaze
 

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