Numb from the Covid

[Dude]

Also, I need a Cole's note version of the new landscape.

I'm a white, near middle aged, maybe privaleged now but certainly wasn't growing up (or maybe I was? I was still white then), straight (I think, last I checked, suppose I'd have to be open to change if I survive Armageddon, but I digress), not religious, but grew up Catholic, and married a Muslim girl, where I had to "convert", and haven't un-converted, so suppose I'm still Muslim. I've had two separate organizations tell me I'm going to heaven. I'm healthy, active, no physical disabilities, and only hidden mental disabilities I burry deep down inside. I sometimes abuse substances to deal with my buried emotions. I try to do good, generally do not violate rule #1, but nobody is perfect.

Here is my question: does my non-gay, non-deadbeat on society, good health, 2-time religious stamp of approval standing generally good guy status mean I'm actually going to hell? What did me in? Being white? Straight? Both? Being (kind-of) educated? Being closer to 48 than 28? Can someone set me straight (no pun intended)? It's very confusing.

 

[Dude]

I've never got this. I suppose I'm somewhat "anti-mask" but rules are rules, and I'm not a dick so I wear it when I'm asked to by health order or by private enterprise. If you are anti-mask why not just not wear one and say "I have a health condition"... Dear Dr Bonnie advises the Karens and Darrens to accept this response as fine.

JBN- that defeats the purpose! If you are like you and I, and you don't like wearing a mask, but at the same time want to be respectful of others, then you put the mask on. I'd say this is the case for MOST people. That large swath of folks that fall middle ground, that have questions (many don't voice those questions though, because people who do have been labeled as anti-mask and the devil incarnate, but I digress), will simply put the mask on to go into a facility, and take it off once outside.

The people that are adamant fall into the category of those that WANT to be heard, and again, I generally don't find an issue w/ wanting to be heard, I find an issue with expressing those feeling to an audience that has no power, or desire, to hear that loud voice.

I have a friend like this, he simply can't be reasoned with. We are in the Gondola together as a two person cohort (yeah, I know, this falls outside the rules currently to not socialize inside w/ those outside your household...but Vail allows a cohort of up to 6, and they don't ask questions or check IDs for addresses at the station, so yes, I broke that rule knowingly. Here is your chance, @PV, call the cops). Now, I know they have rules, and one such rule is keep the mask on inside gondy, and do not close the window. My buddy takes it off as soon as he sits down. Lifty asks him to put his buff back up, and my buddy's response? "SHOW ME THE SCIENCE!!!"

Really?

Or, just STFU, keep your buff on an extra 30 seconds till the gondy is out of the station, and understand some 18 year old kid from Ireland doesn't give a fcuk about anything but his next beer, bong, babe, or all three, and is just doing his job. But, My buddy is a guy that is hurting in his business big time. He's been emotionally stressed and under water since COVID hit. He's not handling it well, and he's yelling at the world right now, even though I know he can be logical, he's chosen to yell at the world.

There are a lot of people yelling at the world right now, and not getting satisfaction in the answers. Me? I just want past this so I can travel again, see my friends, and run my business in a world that isn't revolving around a largely harmless virus.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Exactly. Rage causes illogical responses in people. I think you may be in expert in advising folks on how to read a room

It's been very hard (daily battle for me) to not fall into self pity, drama, picking fights with others, depression, anxiety, loneliness, desperately worrying about my grandparents going bonkers by not seeing people etc. I have to daily choose to be grateful, happy and count the blessings.

I and the missus are employed still. Kids are in school and loving it. Everyone is healthy in my world. Those (aside from the three 90+ year old, in poor health, grans with serious health conditions I know that have perished) that have caught COVID had a mild to rough illness for 3-5 days, with one mate having no taste or smell for about 12 days total.

There's a lot to be thankful for. (at least in my world, and I can only control what I can control)

 

[Dude]

Exactly. There are so many things I can't control, so I thus try to tap out on the conversations. Like with my buddy. We have a safe word: if he get's going to far, I say "Tin Hat", and we change the subject. I dunno. I want to be strong enough to be a sounding post, but the reality is I can only take so much.

 

[Yoda]

Exactly. There are so many things I can't control, so I thus try to tap out on the conversations. Like with my buddy. We have a safe word: if he get's going to far, I say "Tin Hat", and we change the subject. I dunno. I want to be strong enough to be a sounding post, but the reality is I can only take so much.

You’ve been listening to bullshit on here for years, how hard can it be to listen to intelligent conversation?

 

[Dude]

It’s only intelligent if I agree with it, Yoda.

 

[PV]

Pissed at global tv for this morning's interview of a math prof and a doctor who criticized bc's vaccination plan. Global did not ask them for details of their own plan. Bc's plan is to use pfizer and moderna to vaccinate based on age and to use astra zeneca or j&j for essential workers who are younger.
The math prof and the doctor argued that b.c. should stop vaccinating based on age and start vaccinating essential workers regardless of age. My 88 year old mother-in-law is scheduled to get her first vaccine dose in the second half of march. If the vaccination plan is changed then she won't get vaccinated until september or octotober.
the federal government has not approved astra zeneca but many other countries are already using astra. I would gladly take astra now and sign a waiver releasing governments of liability related to astra.

 

[Dude]

Taking personal feelings out of the equation, the idea has merit. It'd also mean my mother in law, dad, step mom and most elderly relatives get it later than planned. However, the argument is that if you vaccinate people who are in contact with general public most often (first responders, grocery store workers, etc.), herd immunity will be achieved quicker because your firewall is now located where there is more direct cross-contamination.

And yes, agree on your Astra take. I probably would, too.

 

[LION]

Two more weeks. Lol
So simple math doesn’t do it for anyone anymore? Facts don’t help either.

if there are 5000 people who currently have Covid in the province. What percent of the population has it? How many went asymptomatic and have the antibodies.
It all is playing out like the regular flu isn’t it? Flus have variants. We know that. So now it’s the variants we are scared of?

breathing fresh air with friends is illegal. How did we get here and let this happen?

we are now “searching for sickness”.
most these cases are from contact tracing and having asymptomatic people get tested. Literally searching for it. Everyone is sick until proven healthy. Is that healthy in itself?

asymptomatic used to mean a healthy person.
outdoor transmission and asymptomatic transmission is negligible. The “health” leaders have said this themselves. Thousands protested all summer out in the streets. Shoulder to shoulder. Did we see a spike? Anyone?

this has gone on too long and with no end date in sight many many people are over it. We all played along for a year now. Times up. Start taking back your life! If your scared and think it will kill someone, stay home, live scared.

It would probably hurt my parents badly. We have taken precautions. But that doesn’t mean my kids life needs to stop! And he can’t have contact with friends!
I am scared to see what the masked up/ MSM news watching/ iPad parents are creating! Screen zombies! Listen to the screen! It will tell you how to be healthy!

do big pharma want to have the population healthy? Or sick? What makes more profit?
selling sickness.
Makes me sick. Lol

 

[Dude]

Two more weeks. Lol
So simple math doesn’t do it for anyone anymore? Facts don’t help either.

if there are 5000 people who currently have Covid in the province. What percent of the population has it? How many went asymptomatic and have the antibodies.
It all is playing out like the regular flu isn’t it? Flus have variants. We know that. So now it’s the variants we are scared of?

breathing fresh air with friends is illegal. How did we get here and let this happen?

we are now “searching for sickness”.
most these cases are from contact tracing and having asymptomatic people get tested. Literally searching for it. Everyone is sick until proven healthy. Is that healthy in itself?

asymptomatic used to mean a healthy person.
outdoor transmission and asymptomatic transmission is negligible. The “health” leaders have said this themselves. Thousands protested all summer out in the streets. Shoulder to shoulder. Did we see a spike? Anyone?

this has gone on too long and with no end date in sight many many people are over it. We all played along for a year now. Times up. Start taking back your life! If your scared and think it will kill someone, stay home, live scared.

It would probably hurt my parents badly. We have taken precautions. But that doesn’t mean my kids life needs to stop! And he can’t have contact with friends!
I am scared to see what the masked up/ MSM news watching/ iPad parents are creating! Screen zombies! Listen to the screen! It will tell you how to be healthy!

do big pharma want to have the population healthy? Or sick? What makes more profit?
selling sickness.
Makes me sick. Lol

This statement is so good, I actually had to double check the source. No offense, @LION , did you come up with this yourself?

we are now “searching for sickness”.
most these cases are from contact tracing and having asymptomatic people get tested. Literally searching for it. Everyone is sick until proven healthy. Is that healthy in itself?

Its not.

I still haven't seen how this virus is any significantly more long-term damaging to lungs than pneumonia or bronchitis. I've heard it is worse, but that line of thinking does not actually deaminate the airwaves for one reason or another. I'm still searching for the real reason as to these extreme measures.

There is more about this that I don't understand than I do.

My two older kids are absolutely suffering from the mental ramifications of being cut off physically from their social network.

My 6 year old, well, we just meet her friends outside. Go skiing. In the summer, she rode every day with different groups of friends. Here I am going to be my buddy right now, but nobody, and I mean, nobody has been able to show the science supporting transmission outside in kids, so fcuk off Dr. Henry, and start letting kids be kids again.

 

[LION]

Yep. But let’s just follow along blindly. With no proof backing most of these measures.
Where are all the men. For real.
we all play soccer with a chance of a leg breaking tackle that would take our work and change our lives. But we still play. And most of us come back to it after. And most of us can barely walk some days after many injuries. But we still play.

Life with no risk is no life at all.
Tomorrow is never promised. Ever.
fcuk Bonnie and and this casedemic.
fcuk big pharma and all the scared couch potatoes. When shite hits the fan you’ll be on your couch letting the TV tell you how to live.
Poor little lungs breathing through a cotton mask OUTDOORS! Lol. What are parents thinking?! It’s so sad.

 

[bulljive]

Honestly I feel sorry for people that haven’t let their kids be kids. We decided about month 2 that all the kids in our town house complex may as well just play. Everyone was out front their little driveways 8 feet away from their friends. Not understanding.

10 of them have been playing street hockey, scooters, bikes ever since. No going inside each other’s houses. We aren’t travelling around to see other people and friends/family. But my son gets free reign outside basically.

I don’t think this is playing out like the flu personally. 500,000 people dead in the states, with measures in place. No not as deadly as the response perhaps. Mostly older, other health conditions. Whatever your argument. But it’s a lot of people. I don’t understand saying we basically aren’t seeing outside transmission but being at phase 1 for outdoor sport. Drives me a bit nuts. I’m outside constantly, I can handle me. I feel for my parents, people more isolated.

 

[LION]

Long post. But worth the read. I posted this story back in August. So stats have changed a bit. But still, kids are unharmed by Covid in 99.99% of cases.

By John Feradi - posted on Facebook. I shared it. The pic he posted with it really hits home as well.

“On this day eight years ago, our precious Jordan earned his angel wings. His time on earth has now been equalized with the time I have had to endure as a bereaved father. Those who know me are aware that I annually pay tribute to Jordan on this day and generally attach a photo to remember the happy times we had with him before he was inflicted with childhood brain cancer. This year I have reluctantly elected to share a photo of a moment during his illness as I believe some major perspective is needed as our children get ready to head back to school in the coming weeks.

As parents we love our children and are worried that by attending school or larger gatherings they may contract Covid-19, be hospitalized and in the worst case die of the disease. We are also worried that the virus will spread beyond the walls of the school to loved ones that are more at risk. We worry about the teachers and staff who work with our children. I am sending a 14-year-old back to school and share those concerns but as someone who has lost a child my message is this, “A life without risk is no life at all.”

To gain perspective and an understanding of risk to our kids please consider that since the virus reached Alberta in March as of today there have been 1930 reported Covid-19 cases within the 0 to 19 age group. (https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm) Of those 1930 cases, 14 have been hospitalized, 2 admitted to ICU and to date thankfully there has not been a death. In all of Canada within that age group there have been about 10,000 cases with 140 hospitalizations, 27 ICU admissions and unfortunately one death although I am not aware if underlying conditions may have contributed to that. Teachers and school staff should consider that ICU admissions and deaths in Alberta between the ages of 20 and 59 are 46 and 5 respectively with about half of that in the 50 to 59 age group. For every 100,000 Albertans in the typical school staff demographic much less than 1% have died and of that the vast majority have 2 or more comorbitities (underlying conditions). A child or person with 2 or more comorbitities is likely not going to be attending or working at a school even without a pandemic. As for our loved ones at risk, particularly the elderly, common practice before the pandemic was not to visit them if we had a cold or the flu so I’m perplexed why authorities would think we would change that behavior during a pandemic. We have also learned that asymptomatic spread of Covid-19 is rare.

To put this all into context there will be about 200 kids between the ages of 0 to 19 get diagnosed with cancer this year in Alberta. There are about 1300 kids in our province that are currently survivors of childhood cancer but 1/3 of them suffer chronic and severe life-threatening conditions. Like Jordan, about 30 kids will die this year. Across Canada about 1500 kids will be diagnosed this year with cancer and for 1/5 of them it will be a death sentence.

You might think that the worst day of my life was the day Jordan died but it was not. That was the day Jordan was set free from pain and I knew he was in the hands of God and his Grandfather who passed not long before would be waiting for him. The worst day(s) were the ones that we had to tell Jordan he was unable to do the things he loved to do. Jordan loved living and he fought hard for 8 months to stay alive. His condition, Diffuse Intrinsic Pontine Glioma (DIPG), is a tumor within the brainstem that attacks the central nervous system. As the tumor grew larger Jordan would gradually lose his ability to run, walk, move his arms, talk, and swallow. Telling a high energy 7-year old who loved athletics that he was not able to participate was devastating. He loved being with his friends and although he may not have admitted at the time not being able to go to school and be a normal kid was crushing.

We had eight years with Jordan, seven of them cancer free. As I observe public health officials and politicians make decisions to at first “flatten the curve” and seemingly now to totally eradicate Covid-19 by any means through lockdown, masks and social distancing measures I can’t help but think had this pandemic and the authorities approach occurred when Jordan was alive and healthy how many experiences would he not have had, how many friends would he have not made and how much less happy would he have been.

A life without risk is no life at all. The Alberta government does a great job at collecting health care statistics and the Covid-19 data shows that risk of getting our kids back to normality is incredibly low. As a bereaved cancer parent, I find the hysteria and fear that the media, politicians, and many parents who choose to ignore the data somewhat insulting as we never got to make the same choice for Jordan but can assure you we would have taken the odds of a worst case Covid-19 outcome in a heartbeat. Our job as parents is to enrich the lives of our kids in addition to keeping them safe. Life is meant to be experienced, not locked up at home, hidden behind a mask, two meters away from your friends or covered in sanitizer. Being complicit and simply following a nonsensical bylaw does a disservice to your kids. We have stopped listening to immunologists and infectious disease specialists and just blindly follow along with a violation of our civil liberties with ever increasing controls put on our everyday lives by our political leaders. If you agree with me that a life without risk is no life at all and wish to see your kids enrich their lives with the physical and academic activities society has denied them, then do something about it. Write to or call your local city councilor, MLA, school trustee and other authorities you can think of and ask them to justify with hard data and logic why they are enforcing these bylaws and measures. Study the readily available published statistics, sway public opinion and calm the fears with your peers by explaining what the data shows and debunk what some media outlet or fear mongering politician looking for attention wants them to hear.

One final thought. I was curious what the leading causes of death amongst children in Alberta so I could compare with Covid-19 and other viruses. What caught my eye was 70 kids in Alberta, most of them between the ages of 15 to 19 took their own lives in 2018. Think about that. Busy kids are happy kids but give them time to get their minds trapped in things that depress them in life, fall in with the wrong crowd or develop an addiction to the wrong substance will take them down a very dark path. The number was 70 in 2018 but I am very fearful those numbers will be substantially higher in 2020 as mental health seems to be a low priority for our elected officials and public health officers as Covid-19 is the sole focus. It was important to get a handle on the significance of the virus during the first couple of months, but the data is in and the time to restore the balance between safety and happiness is now. Elected officials are there to serve us, not the other way around and now is not the time to sit back and assume we will get our normal lives back. A life without risk is no life at all.

 

[LION]

@bulljive the response is deadlier. You said it. And we are not the states. They are filled with obesity, poverty, diabetes and folks with zero health care. Their diet in many parts of the country would put most of us in “high risk”. Eating wings and drinking soda is the norm there.

As well, they count every person who has died WITH covid as a covid death.
has that country seen a sky rocket in deaths comparing to the past years?
Heart attacks and all the other columns are way way down. How? and the numbers have been put on the Covid side of the ledger.
I would agree if we were seeing deaths way way above a normal year. Let’s say double the deaths or something. But that’s not the case. Big pharma has lots of power in the states.

were those in old age homes going to die anyways this coming year from a flu or the next thing?

the numbers are skewed bigtime there. When CNN cuts to commercial? Oh look. A phizer commercial. Oh look. Another pharma commercial. (Way worse in the states as we have Better laws on promoting pills here)

I meant how it’s working like the flu is how it effects 99% of people. Of course if you have some health concerns be safe and vigilant. Again, my parents haven’t had indoor time with the kids for too many months. We have taken precautions.
also how it peaks during “flu season” etc. As everyone is indoors. It works the same.

We need to learn to live with it. And move on. Just like the other countless viruses and diseases out there. We don’t shut down life and people’s way of lives for all the other risks out there.

going to the park with kids and letting them play is illegal? But the liquors stores are essential. Stay home and drink. Lol.

shouldn’t the messaging be everyone go outside! Play. Be outside. Get healthy. Breathe fresh air. Don’t go indoors unless your sleeping. How many lives would that have saved?
Why tell you to stay home if that’s where all the transmission happens? People want to be with people. Want to connect. It’s natural. They know that.

Go to Walmart. Shop with strangers. Then stay home.
take the bus and skytrain to work, then lock yourself indoors. Stay home.
Staying home is what is actually killing these old sick folks.

Seriously. 5000 people of 5.1M have it.
and we can’t play soccer cause of that number? Someone show me any science saying that people playing sports outside will lead to deaths and massive illness.
I don’t think it would hold up in court. There is zero evidence backing it.

 

[LION]

If this was a real pandemic. Would public buses and skytrain Be running? How many thousands of people use that system daily. Every day. But we are in a pandemic?!
I can jump on a bus right now to Scott road station. Then skytrain to waterfront. Sit shoulder to shoulder with a stranger. Then take the bus to North Van. Have lunch with a friend. Take the commute back.

is this really a pandemic?
folks don’t question this? Or we just saying
Yes tv, yes Bonnie. Whatever you say. We are in this together. Lol.
your not a hero if you sit at home. But I have to give it up to the marketing behind this all. They have made fat lazy fcuks feel like hero’s! Lol brilliant.

@Dude you see why I stayed away now!
Rant over. I think.

 

[dezza]

@LION I would love to see sources for your data.

The best I can find is the US CDC which charts the weekly number of deaths.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

On average it is normally 50-60k. During the pandemic it has ranged from 57k-80k with the number of deaths being "in excess" of the usual threshold since essentially April 2020. So that's 15-30% more deaths, let's call the average 22% more deaths per week?

Is that insignificant?

 

[Dude]

5000/5.1m proven to have it. How many are a-symptomatic and don't know, or have had it and stayed home to heal, no phone call to nurses line, no visit? A lot, I bet.

People forget, also, that the US is the third most populated nation on the planet, and have much higher density than we do. That 500,000 number as a percentage of their population is 500,000 / 328.2 million. Or, 0.15%. Canada, 22,000/37M, or 0.059%. Never mind asking questions about things like how deaths are categorized (again...my father in law had late stages Multiple Myeloma...caught Pneumonia and was gone inside a week. Death certificate says cause of death complications w/ Cancer. Now? How many are dying of COVID that are in similar circumstances and immune compromised? I don't know, but it's a fair and legit question). Is that a huge number? Are EITHER huge numbers? Canada has a lot going for it reducing that number...less density, space, and stronger federal and Provincial measures keeping the numbers down, not to mention all the illnesses their largely obese population is subject to. At the end of the day, it simply isn't that big a number. I'd also like to see how that stacks of with YOY deaths attributed to the flu.

At this rate, the real possibility of our age group NOT being able to spend time w/ our parents before they pass on is real. Of them NOT being able to see their grandkids. I know I'm asking myself if it is worth it, why doesn't anyone ask them? My poor mother in law has been in jail since September, no physical contact with any kid, any grandkid. What kind of life is that for an 85 year old woman, who has raised a great family and paid her dues?

 

[Dude]

@LION I would love to see sources for your data.

The best I can find is the US CDC which charts the weekly number of deaths.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

On average it is normally 50-60k. During the pandemic it has ranged from 57k-80k with the number of deaths being "in excess" of the usual threshold since essentially April 2020. So that's 15-30% more deaths, let's call the average 22% more deaths per week?

Is that insignificant?

Fair question.

I'd ask what the range was in the flu, prior to COVID. We have flu seasons, and we have bad flu seasons, and have has "especially bad" flu seasons. Seems the estimates prior to COVID were already in that floating range of 15-30%?

 

[LION]

A: we are not the USA. We are not the Wild West. We have health care. We are generally healthy “west coasters”.

The American obesity rate alone is... very obese. Fat people have a tough times breathing as it is. that’s not mean. It’s facts. I am fat sometimes. Kind of fat right now. My lungs have seen tons of local smoke. Campfires and all!
Covid could kill me, I know that. But I am not shutting down my life cause of it. Especially my kids life.
Take precautions sure, but living is a key part of the word; LIFE.

We are Canadians with Canadian culture and geography. Also, let’s play in Canadian stats and facts. Let’s fix our backyard first then help the others.
The meth lab below us is a whole other topic of discussion.
Maybe start with the busses and skytrain question. How are they running if this is so serious that soccer(which promotes healthy lungs) outdoors is shut down?

New one;
If they contact traced every flu virus in the past and checked if any flu virus was present in an old aged persons death, let’s say 65 plus years old, what do you think numbers would like like? Let’s say they were PCR testing everyone over the last 20 years who had the flu symptons and then traced all their contacts and logged them and had them tested, literally looking for it, “searching for sickness”had the PcR threshold at 40 plus cycles;
How many deaths would have been marked as influenza? We’re they tracking it like they do now? Was the messaging in the past, if you have flu symptoms on any level, to get checked so we can track it? I don’t think so. Also is there no column any more that says they died of “old age”?

take the 75 plus crowd out and now look at the numbers. Yes all lives matter. Yes BLM. Yes to it all. But people do die when they are older right? Or is that not allowed anymore. She/her/they- sorry ma’am what pronoun did she go by?

 

[Dude]

A lot to unpack.

The LGBTQ rant is located next room over, let’s stay focused on those fat fcuks to the south.