Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Why say it's the system all ages are going to adopt?
We all know systems are bollocks if the basics aren't done correctly anyway
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New Youth HPL league
- Thread starter Mr Base
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Why say it's the system all ages are going to adopt?
We all know systems are bollocks if the basics aren't done correctly anyway
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Your forwards won't get the ball because they midfield of Base's team will have it all the time.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know one who did for sure......spent about $7000 to bring someone in to put the proposal together professionally....
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
The cost is a huge concern.....I was talking to a parent today who has a daughter that could potentially make one of the 'teams' but the Mum said it is simply too much and whether she should even bother trying out for one of the teams....Mum and Dad both work and have two other children who are younger. They are trying to balance things but this sort of money just isn't an option for them. Are we getting the best players going into this league or are we getting the largest cheque books?
I think so Captain. And again, "when we were kids"...
One thing I am sick of hearing is the comparisons to hockey. "Well, you know it costs Major Midget players $10K a season, and Rep at least $5K!".
Apples and oranges. I love hockey, and my son plays, but it is and always will be an elitist sport. Every year there are fewer and fewer kids w/ single moms still playing. Every year the costs get higher. Luckily, my son is both diverse in his sports interests and apparently his hands have been inflicted w/ the same cement type compound God blessed my feet with, so Rep isn't on our radar at this point.
That said, there are a lot- and I mean A LOT- of kids at 11 & 12 years old who's primary focus is hockey. All of these kids are only able to do it because their parents can afford it...all the extra Power Skating, private coaching, spring league. The average parent of this type of player is well into the higher income brackets, and often they spend everything on their kid. No real vacations, and no other activities. Everything invested in hockey.
Why does hockey get away w/ it and we can't w/ soccer? #1: Canada is already the best. We're already at the forefront of the training, teaching, etc. #2: we have very little competition worldwide. It's not hard to be the best when the sample group is so small.
One of the appeals of football is that anyone can play, and most can play for a reasonable price, or even free. 3rd world countries have figured out a way to get their very best players into the top leagues while not costing the family a year's supply of chicken.
The model we're creating now w/ the HPL is a model whereby the player is manufactured w/ a pocket book. Think hockey, but w/ a much smaller pool of players to choose from when put up against the rest of the planet. Right off the bat, we're eliminating some of the best prospects from even being identified.
We need the system whereby a parent can pay $500.00 for a season, get their kid a bushell full of great training, get them the highest level games they can compete at, and should they warrant, be selected to the "best of the best". Have them go on to play at no extra charge, but with a system of accountability behind them, letting them know that w/ any slip in either training, studies, or in the community- or even if another kid a level under out-competes him for the spot- he'll be cut. Right now, we have it backwards: the player w/ the best combination of elite training and parent's pocketbook will get in, and they have no system of accountability, and a small pool of players behind them capable of knocking them off the top rung. And hey, if coach does something mom doesn't like, mom will be right there to remind him who pays his salary.
Doesn't sound like an ideal model to me.
One thing I am sick of hearing is the comparisons to hockey. "Well, you know it costs Major Midget players $10K a season, and Rep at least $5K!".
Apples and oranges. I love hockey, and my son plays, but it is and always will be an elitist sport. Every year there are fewer and fewer kids w/ single moms still playing. Every year the costs get higher. Luckily, my son is both diverse in his sports interests and apparently his hands have been inflicted w/ the same cement type compound God blessed my feet with, so Rep isn't on our radar at this point.
That said, there are a lot- and I mean A LOT- of kids at 11 & 12 years old who's primary focus is hockey. All of these kids are only able to do it because their parents can afford it...all the extra Power Skating, private coaching, spring league. The average parent of this type of player is well into the higher income brackets, and often they spend everything on their kid. No real vacations, and no other activities. Everything invested in hockey.
Why does hockey get away w/ it and we can't w/ soccer? #1: Canada is already the best. We're already at the forefront of the training, teaching, etc. #2: we have very little competition worldwide. It's not hard to be the best when the sample group is so small.
One of the appeals of football is that anyone can play, and most can play for a reasonable price, or even free. 3rd world countries have figured out a way to get their very best players into the top leagues while not costing the family a year's supply of chicken.
The model we're creating now w/ the HPL is a model whereby the player is manufactured w/ a pocket book. Think hockey, but w/ a much smaller pool of players to choose from when put up against the rest of the planet. Right off the bat, we're eliminating some of the best prospects from even being identified.
We need the system whereby a parent can pay $500.00 for a season, get their kid a bushell full of great training, get them the highest level games they can compete at, and should they warrant, be selected to the "best of the best". Have them go on to play at no extra charge, but with a system of accountability behind them, letting them know that w/ any slip in either training, studies, or in the community- or even if another kid a level under out-competes him for the spot- he'll be cut. Right now, we have it backwards: the player w/ the best combination of elite training and parent's pocketbook will get in, and they have no system of accountability, and a small pool of players behind them capable of knocking them off the top rung. And hey, if coach does something mom doesn't like, mom will be right there to remind him who pays his salary.
Doesn't sound like an ideal model to me.
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- #626
Dude,
You know I like your posts but I swear it was you that in the past was trying to say we should model soccer after the hockey system? I dunno, maybe it was someone else
At the end of the day, cost/financing is always going to be an issue. This thing isn't going to work without some teething issues right out of the gate and certainly there are going to be some people upset.
You know I like your posts but I swear it was you that in the past was trying to say we should model soccer after the hockey system? I dunno, maybe it was someone else
At the end of the day, cost/financing is always going to be an issue. This thing isn't going to work without some teething issues right out of the gate and certainly there are going to be some people upset.
'Capt Shamrock'
I agree that the cost will eliminate some great talent in all sports where there are high fees attached, it's simple math of course, it's not possible that all the gifted children have parents with means.
What's the solution to that?
Who's going to subsidize all of these teams and players who need subsidizing? Unfortunately someone always has to pay.
I guess if the goal is to have the very best provincial and national product possible, these kids who need assistance NEED to be identified early on and then assisted somehow.
It comes down to funding and whether we as a province or a country have the appetitie for those costs.
My kid ( who has just turned 12 ) is playing & training at a level that has her taking advantage of several opportunities and most of them cost money of course. My wife and I earn a higher than average living and the cost definitely pains us at times. The average family, or a single parent with average means, I don't see how what we do could be possible.
As most of us know as well, it is very often in these sometimes costly environments where the kids get "discovered" for bigger and better things. The kid without means very likely will not be in those places to get noticed.
I know I can't save the world here but it is too bad. I don't know the answer.
I agree that the cost will eliminate some great talent in all sports where there are high fees attached, it's simple math of course, it's not possible that all the gifted children have parents with means.
What's the solution to that?
Who's going to subsidize all of these teams and players who need subsidizing? Unfortunately someone always has to pay.
I guess if the goal is to have the very best provincial and national product possible, these kids who need assistance NEED to be identified early on and then assisted somehow.
It comes down to funding and whether we as a province or a country have the appetitie for those costs.
My kid ( who has just turned 12 ) is playing & training at a level that has her taking advantage of several opportunities and most of them cost money of course. My wife and I earn a higher than average living and the cost definitely pains us at times. The average family, or a single parent with average means, I don't see how what we do could be possible.
As most of us know as well, it is very often in these sometimes costly environments where the kids get "discovered" for bigger and better things. The kid without means very likely will not be in those places to get noticed.
I know I can't save the world here but it is too bad. I don't know the answer.
bettermirror
New Member
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- #629
Community is alway behind all of us. This time kids and parents will have to join Churches to get the help in soccer. It is simple. You have to put in in orther to get some back. In my opinion one child per club team will need help. Club team will be able to cover the coast for one him or here.
Slowley community will buy in to development. We must work hard to get the local paper to post needed information. There is always rich folks tha can help one child out.
Slowley community will buy in to development. We must work hard to get the local paper to post needed information. There is always rich folks tha can help one child out.
Dude,
You know I like your posts but I swear it was you that in the past was trying to say we should model soccer after the hockey system? I dunno, maybe it was someone else
At the end of the day, cost/financing is always going to be an issue. This thing isn't going to work without some teething issues right out of the gate and certainly there are going to be some people upset.
That was mostly Jonesey, and only on the Junior level. I agreed about the Junior level. At the Junior level, players do not pay. Their costs are covered by a combination private / public / philantrophic system. The players are accountable on the ice, in the classroom, and in the community.
Soccerdad...totally agree that in theory it is a lot easier than in practice. Corporations don't run out to throw money at amature sports, especially ones w/ bad or no business plan behind it.
This is why I have been bitching about giving this a year to properly plan. Sure, commit to a start-up date of March 2012, but do this thing properly, and while you're at it, bring in a consultant to set up the three way model that encompases the funding required to run the league.
This is why I have been bitching about giving this a year to properly plan. Sure, commit to a start-up date of March 2012, but do this thing properly, and while you're at it, bring in a consultant to set up the three way model that encompases the funding required to run the league.
Why is it that the clubs that are trying to get an HPL franchise are not being held accountable for additional costs?
Same fee's already being paid should cover kids that are selected for HPL and if the club wants to pay staff then that would be the clubs choice...or am I just being niave?
Same fee's already being paid should cover kids that are selected for HPL and if the club wants to pay staff then that would be the clubs choice...or am I just being niave?
I'm not sure if this is a naive notion actually newbie.....
The HPL "division" is somewhat the flagship of each of the respective clubs no?
The Club desires for the good player to rise in time from house to silver to gold to HPL right? Part of the reward for excelling is a large bill.
LOL...as a parent who is looking to HPL for my kid next, I'm most cerftainly all for the Club helping with these costs. I say this a bit tongue in cheek however what I said above still stands and has some logic to it no?
Comments people?
The HPL "division" is somewhat the flagship of each of the respective clubs no?
The Club desires for the good player to rise in time from house to silver to gold to HPL right? Part of the reward for excelling is a large bill.
LOL...as a parent who is looking to HPL for my kid next, I'm most cerftainly all for the Club helping with these costs. I say this a bit tongue in cheek however what I said above still stands and has some logic to it no?
Comments people?
The HPL "division" is somewhat the flagship of each of the respective clubs no?
that was my thought. If the club is trying to grow not only itself but it's players it would only make them look better in the eyes of the soccer community as well as to the parents footing the bill to promote the best players at a minimal cost.
I am having a hard time understanding how clubs can promote themselves as the best place to develop young talent without them investing in the kids themselves. I understand it is a business but the most succesful business always invest wisely in the future.
that was my thought. If the club is trying to grow not only itself but it's players it would only make them look better in the eyes of the soccer community as well as to the parents footing the bill to promote the best players at a minimal cost.
I am having a hard time understanding how clubs can promote themselves as the best place to develop young talent without them investing in the kids themselves. I understand it is a business but the most succesful business always invest wisely in the future.
Hmmmmm....I guess there is a 'tipping point' in terms of what the Clubs can realistically / rightfully charge the parents at each level as this is of course where this money would largely come from, by charging all levels the appropriate fees to cover all the costs for the overall Club from wee lil kids to all levels of HPL.
IE; all players fees going to subsidize the overall costs, so, a portion of the U6 kids fees going to help pay for the U17 HPL players costs. IE; "cradle to grave" they speak about, but not only in available training cradle to grave but also in cost sharing.
While this makes some sense in my head, the fee's charged for the U6 house player would have to remain reasonable as those parents will only pay so much knowing that a portion is going to cover costs of HPL players who are receiving a far far higher level of training and eating up a much larger portion of the $ pie.
I suppose what I'm describing must be essentially how they operate now but we're saying that perhaps a bit more of the other divisions fees could or should go to make HPL level a bit less than it's proposed to be. IE; the other divisions pay a wee bit more than the $200 - $300 they pay now and as a result the HPLers pay a bit less than the $2500+ ( or whatever it will be ).
Piece of cake, we have it figured out. Done.
; )
IE; all players fees going to subsidize the overall costs, so, a portion of the U6 kids fees going to help pay for the U17 HPL players costs. IE; "cradle to grave" they speak about, but not only in available training cradle to grave but also in cost sharing.
While this makes some sense in my head, the fee's charged for the U6 house player would have to remain reasonable as those parents will only pay so much knowing that a portion is going to cover costs of HPL players who are receiving a far far higher level of training and eating up a much larger portion of the $ pie.
I suppose what I'm describing must be essentially how they operate now but we're saying that perhaps a bit more of the other divisions fees could or should go to make HPL level a bit less than it's proposed to be. IE; the other divisions pay a wee bit more than the $200 - $300 they pay now and as a result the HPLers pay a bit less than the $2500+ ( or whatever it will be ).
Piece of cake, we have it figured out. Done.
; )
bettermirror
New Member
good luck convincing the bronze level parent to pay for the HPL player - especially when the bronze player receives none of the benefit. in theory i agree....but why is some kid from Mission going to pay extra to pay bronze for some kid from North Delta to go play for Pacific Athletic. ??
Totally agree with you bettermirror. There should be no clubs or district subsidizing the HPL clubs who should stand on their own. If we can't do that we are no better than the CSA who can't manage squat and shuffles money around like a deck of cards.
The HPL is already aware that Van FC which is a NPO incorporated club in itself gets $20-25K annually from the district. This is without the parents in the 10 youth clubs knowing or having voted on it. Last VYSA Presidents meeting wasn't too pleasant for some.
If clubs want to subsidize programs take the funds out of sponsorship or DAG's (gaming monies). Don't subsidize one program at the expense of another than don't tell no one and hide it in the financials by grouping the programs. For parents, the best way to protect your investment is to ask questions about the financials and etc.
Smart move on STFC to publish their HPL proposal as interested parents can see whats going on.
The HPL is already aware that Van FC which is a NPO incorporated club in itself gets $20-25K annually from the district. This is without the parents in the 10 youth clubs knowing or having voted on it. Last VYSA Presidents meeting wasn't too pleasant for some.
If clubs want to subsidize programs take the funds out of sponsorship or DAG's (gaming monies). Don't subsidize one program at the expense of another than don't tell no one and hide it in the financials by grouping the programs. For parents, the best way to protect your investment is to ask questions about the financials and etc.
Smart move on STFC to publish their HPL proposal as interested parents can see whats going on.
yeah, I can tell you what the feeder clubs in Burnaby will say to raising their fees to subsidize HPL players...
I think there's another way to look at this... instead of worrying about where the money to pay the coaches will come from... how about paying the coaches less? We have had zero problem attracting quality applicants and we don't pay at all... Toss $2500 at each coach as an enhanced honourarium and each club will have quality coaches lining up for the jobs... you'd also be able to save a ton of money on registration fees...
While we're at it, if you trust your team coaches to do their job, I fail to see the need to have a highly paid TD racking up the hours to do.... what exactly? We've gone without a TD for years, and it hasn't exactly hurt our results...
I think there's another way to look at this... instead of worrying about where the money to pay the coaches will come from... how about paying the coaches less? We have had zero problem attracting quality applicants and we don't pay at all... Toss $2500 at each coach as an enhanced honourarium and each club will have quality coaches lining up for the jobs... you'd also be able to save a ton of money on registration fees...
While we're at it, if you trust your team coaches to do their job, I fail to see the need to have a highly paid TD racking up the hours to do.... what exactly? We've gone without a TD for years, and it hasn't exactly hurt our results...
Re: Sportstown... they likely want the proposals out in the public domain so that when they inevitably don't get a franchise, they can point to their proposal, expound on why it's better than one or more of the successful bids, and then light BC up about how the league wasnt set up properly... I bet it has everything to do with their own, for profit interests, rather than any more selfless motives...
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