Liberal / NDP Coalition Government

[Dude]

Fcuking disgusted this morning at our political system.

Minority government or not, Canadians voted in a Conservative government. Liberals lost seats due to lack of confidence in their leader. Now we're essentially looking at a Liberal lead coalition that will be run by a man who has essentially already announced his resignation.

Timing couldn't be worse w/ this sudden recession / possible depression.

I'm literally sick to my stomach w/ this news.

 

[johnnybluenose]

First off, this is the wrong place in the forum to post this...It should be here
Now that I have had you punch a nice hole in your newly painted walls at your office let me say I agree with you 100%.

This whole thing is a joke, stinks to high heaven, and makes me sick.

The fact that these hypocrites and politicos all went up in arms when David Emerson crossed the floor and are now doing ruin to the Canadian political system to save their own asses is hypocrisy of the highest order. Regardless of where your political allegiances lie, you cannot logically argue against what the Conservatives are preaching at this point in time. Is what they are preaching ill-timed? Yes, and although I am a Libertarian at heart, and a traditional Right wing thinker, I don't like how Harper has tried to bankrupt his opposition at this time.

Taxpayers bankrolling election campaigns and parties is not kosher, not at all. Parties and Politicians should have to fund raise. Fact is that if it became law that Political Parties couldn't rely on taxpayer subsidies, the Liberals and NDP would be bankrupt. Why? Obviously because people don't care enough about their causes to send them donations, or at the very least enough donations. Is Harpers plan to make this law ill-timed? Absolutley, it wreaks of opportunism, but isn't that politics? Canadian Families and Canadian Corporations fiscally support (more than the other parties) the Conservatives. That is fact, and it also lines up with the last two federal elections we had too.

But for them (the parties) to go behind closed doors and start carrying out different mandates than what the electorate charged them with should land them all in jail for Mutiny. If this was the USA they would all be in Guantanamo Bay.

As far as their claims that this is a reaction to the lack of a plan for "Economic Stimulus" from the Conservatiuves...they are lying. Harper's plan to cinch the belt on federal in house spending for the betterment of the Government (Which is exactly what this is in essence) is fiscally responsible and the right thing to do.

The Conservatives didn't need to come out with a plan for Economic Stimulus. It has already happened. The GST has been reduced, and they are carrying on with their promise to do so, something the Reds sadly never did, fulfill a promise.

Governments bailing out economies is a very very dangerous game. The Americans have shredded any semblance of a good working eeconomy due to this, and mark my words, they are playing russian roulette by doing more bailouts.

I read an excellent paper this morning. It basically said if a government gives Ford Motor Company more money to build product and keep americans employed...they may be able to build 1000 more Ford Rangers a year, but they cannot sell those Ford Rangers, all 1000 of them, if Toyo or Goodyear or Firestone cannot produce, profitably, 4000 more tires, and they cannot produce 4000 more tires if they cannot buy from a supplier that is able to supply to them the rubber and other raw goods, profitably.

Economy is not all surface, it is not like there is a warehouse filled with consumer goods. Is is a long pipeline filled with many intricacies that affect change in markets.

And if people now decide to be thrifty for today, that doesn't mean they aren't spending money...It means they are going to spend it later.

If today in Canada...Married Couples all decided to stop going out for dinner, restaurants would start closing all over. The couples would have more money in the bank. People think that all the bartenders and waitresses would lose their jobs...they would. But guess what...when all those couples decide to go on cruises with their savings all those folks would be in demand, since service staff are the lifeblood of any resort/cruise type of industry.

The Liberal party is doing absolutely everything they can from going tits up. Their situation is worse than any of us thought, even worse than what they thought. People have gotten a lot more sick of their sense of entitlement than anyone thought, and this is evidenced now by their willing to join forces with Canada's anarchist/communist party (lovingly referred to as the New Democrat Party, which by the way is not all that "New" anymore, since they have had little to no success since they were actually "new") and the Separtist Mutineers, the Bloc Quebecois.

The Liberal government is so stooped in their sense of entitlement, that even though they were unable to be elected by Canadians they are now going to attempt to take control of the country by backroom dealings and politicking.

Sickening...the lot of them.

 

[Dude]

Sorry...wrong spot. Please move it.

Anyhow, I am speachless right now...so mad about this. And in the end, the Quebequois get what they want. No matter which way you cut it.

 

[johnnybluenose]

You are right, sadly (Conservative Party and their actions aside) The only voters getting exactly what they voted for are the Bloc voters.

They vote for a party that is hellbent on raping and pillaging true Canadians and Canada for their own greater good on the empty threat of separating.

As an aside...Look at what I found. Fundraising letters. Can you spot the tone and difference between the two?

Liberals:

Liberal Friend,

In times of turmoil, Canadians expect their political representatives to set aside partisan difference, roll up their sleeves and get to work protecting their jobs, savings and pensions.

Yesterday's economic update is a betrayal of that basic principle. Not only have the Conservatives failed to offer any stimulus for the Canadian economy, they have introduced a proposal expressly designed to silence the opposition by eliminating public funding for political parties.

Stephen Harper and Jim Flaherty know this proposal is controversial. In fact, they are counting on it to distract you. Together, let's keep them accountable.

The simple fact is that the Conservatives messed up. In less than three years, they have frittered away a $13 billion surplus and $3 billion contingency fund and are predicting a $6 billion deficit.

But once again, Stephen Harper has put partisan interests ahead of the national interest. At a time when Canadians are looking for a sense of hope, Harper's Conservatives are looking for political gain.

You deserve better. Canada deserves better.

We need your help now. The Liberal opposition is committed to a fiscal stimulus program that will restore the health of the Canadian economy. The Conservatives insist on playing politics while the economy spirals downward. Please make a donation right now and help make sure we have the resources to hold them to account on your behalf and on behalf of all Canadians.

Thank you,

Doug Ferguson
President, Liberal Party of Canada

Authorized by the Federal Liberal Agency of Canada, registered agent for the Liberal Party of Canada

Conservative:

Dear Mr. Macintyre,

The Liberal Party was completely rejected by Canadians in the last election. They received their lowest share of the popular vote since Confederation.

Now the Liberals are trying to take power through the back door.

As you read this letter, the Liberals are holding secret negotiations with the socialist NDP and the separatist Bloc Québécois to overturn the wishes of Canadian voters and take power.

They want to take power and impose on Canadians a Prime Minister without a personal mandate, a Liberal-NDP Coalition not one voter has ever endorsed and have it all backstopped by the separatist Bloc Québécois who simply want to destroy the country.

We need your help to ensure that they do not succeed!

Senior Liberal insiders are trying to fool Canadians into thinking their scheme has something to do with the economy.

But it is clear the Liberals do not care about the economy. They only care about re-gaining power and re-gaining their entitlements. They've learned nothing since being turfed out of office over the sponsorship scandal.

On October 14th, Canadians passed judgment on the Liberals.

The Liberals have no mandate to lead a government.

The Liberals have no mandate to cut a deal with the NDP.

And the Liberals certainly do not have a mandate to cut a deal with the separatists who want to destroy our country.

This backroom deal is so unprecedented and so undemocratic that Canadians must have their say.

This is Canada. The privilege to govern must be earned, not taken. We cannot let this happen.

When an election occurs - and it must - the Conservative Party will have to wage the fight of its life.

We now know we are no longer competing just with the Official Opposition. We are competing against a coordinated campaign between Liberals, socialists and separatists to impose their agenda on Canadians.

I am asking you to make an emergency donation of $200 or $100 - whatever you can afford to protect Canada's future and protect Canada's democracy from being hijacked by politicians who care about nothing more than power and entitlements.

In the last election, Conservatives stood together and spoke out loud and clear about the kind of Canada they wanted.

Now we must stand together once again to ensure that the wishes of the voters are respected.

Time is of the essence. Please respond immediately.

Sincerely,


Irving Gerstein,C.M., O.Ont
Chair, Conservative Fund Canada

PS: We also need you to write letters to the editor, call Talk Radio and let the Liberals and NDP know what you think of their plan to overturn the Government without seeking the consent of Canadians

Liberals: It addressed generically. They are asking for money to gain political advantage,
Conservatives: Addressed specifically to Mr. MacIntyre (who penned the article from which I stole the above) and they are asking for money to save a democracy.

The Conservative Letter is fired up, passionate. They also close out by asking you to be an activist on talk radio and letters to the editor. The Liberals just want your money, with that they can pay folks to call Bill Good and write letters to Paul Chapman.

Gee, I wonder why the Conservative Party have a better time of getting support (Both at the polls and monetarily) from their supporters and why the Liberals are nearly bankrupt.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Oh, and I almost forgot...While the Liberal scam letter points out that

The simple fact is that the Conservatives messed up. In less than three years, they have frittered away a $13 billion surplus and $3 billion contingency fund and are predicting a $6 billion deficit.

They forgot to mention they actually lived up to their promise of cutting GST down... Putting more money in more families hands (to do with what they please whether that be going on a holiday, paying down credit card debt, or putting down on principle of a mortgage) Which is the only economic stimulus that makes sense at the moment.

Pouring more money into bailing out companies that cannot run themselves properly is a recipe for disaster. They will simply repeat their previous failings and then come back to us taxpayers with their hands out again.

Fact is Canada is not suffering from a Sub Prime Mortgage crisis. The CMHC was established to prevent such an occurance from happening. Our real estate market is not a crisis as it is more of a correction. The bubble has burst. Families that cannot afford their way of life must now correct, or suffer the consequences. We do NOT have the same problems as the United States.

The Liberals failed in all of their time in power to distance ourselves from poor trade spinoffs with the USA. And now they want Harpers government to match the Americans bail out the financial houses? Give me a break.

Taxes have been cut. I know my family has had a great last couple of years. I feel wealthier, My parents feel wealthier than ever, all of my family, including my retired grandparents who are now fixed incomers...

When will the Socialist/Anarchist/GranolaMunching/Lesbian/TreeHugging/EagleSaving/Protesting/BirkenstockWearing Hippies ever learn about making your way and forging your life, instead of relying on handouts and socialist trappings?

 

[One Dart]

Let's calm down shall we? Had Harper not decided to bully his opponents into submission, none of this would have happened. What about Harper's promise to be more open to the views of the opposition in this parliament? That's what I thought. As for the GST cut being the plan for economic stimulus, did they have a crystal ball that told them the world's economy was going to go in the tank? Economic stimulus would be something that either creates or saves jobs, not saving 2%. Every democracy in the world has some form of public subsidy to political parties, it levels the playing field and allows all parties, not just those with wealthy supporters, to participate in politics.

 

[johnnybluenose]

1. Fiscal responsibility is a mandate, and an election promise that was made by Harper. Because the yahoos at the NDP and Liberals decided to stop working with what looked (from the outside looking in anyways) like a decently cooperative Minority Government, We spent how many million bucks on an election that did nothing but strengthen the Conservative Minority? By Harpers plan to axe the subsidy he is trimming fat. Why do the Liberals and NDP need tax money to support their propaganda (In the NDP) and their sense of entitlement (Liberals)?

The two hammer wielding parties at the moment are well funded. Why? because their policies and ideals line up with the majority of Canadians in the Bloc and the Conservatives. The other two parties and in financial ruin because of an election they forced and then ran, unsuccessfully.

2. Harpers promise to be more open was filled. Unfortunately they want to needlessly pour billions of dollars into our economy, which doesn't need to happen. The entire world's economy is slowing...It is not He who dies with the most toys wins, we all know that and have learned that since we graduated to high school. It is about the ability for your populace to be sustainable. Just because the american lead corporations decided to feed gluttonously at the trough of excess during a very profitable time in place doesn't mean that a Government should step in and "save jobs".

People that went from making $50,000 a year, for many years, that went to making $75,000 a year, should have known better, and should have socked away some for a "rainy day". same goes for big business.

My company is one of, if not the largest industrial conglomerates in the world. We have enough cash liquidity that we can go four full years during a worst case scenario without laying off 1 soul. That is a well run company that is worth investing in IMHO.

General Motors, FoMoCo, Chrysler, the big investment houses, etc etc etc have not run their businesses properly...why? We all know why. Labour Unions, difficulties servicing and backing poorly engineered products, ridiculous interest rates set by One Alan Greenspan.

Economic Stimulus is NOT NEEDED. Our economy is scaled to our trading partners. If they are in trouble we are too, regardless of what our government does. Pouring billions of bucks to poorly run companies does nothing but set a precident for them to come back once they ruin themselves again, at our taxpaying cost.

The 2% of ALL GOODS AND SERVICES that are purchased in Canada goes back into consumers pockets, allowing them to spend more on bigger badder wheels, more fuel to run said wheels to keep automobile salespeople emplyed, service people employed, car washes and gas stations employing folks, to purchase another 40'+ HD Television so all the nerds at best buy can pay bills, to be able to afford Bombay Sapphire instead of Potters Gin or to be able to afford Stella artois and not Molson Canadian which drives Service Staffers tips up. to be able to go to dinner Once a week instead of once a month, and so on and so forth.

Why is it that well run companies are not asking for handouts?

The poorly run companies with albatross CBA's with their treacherous unions and out of line cost to margin philosophies are the ones looking for money.

Funny how that works.

Darwin was right, the fit survive, the unfit don't or learn to adapt.

 

[kurgan]

Popular Vote:
Conservative - 37.63
Liberal - 26.24
NDP - 18.20

Add in another 6.9% for the Greens and it looks to me like there's a lot more support for the NDP/Liberal coalition than for the Conservatives. The only reason the Conservatives are currently in power is the vote splitting on the left. If they had won a majority, they could govern as they wished. If not, they have to work with another party and if they can't they lose power. That's the way our system works.

And, for the record, the NDP and the Liberals are mostly a bunch of twats so I'm not particularly pleased about this.

 

[trece verde]

Johnny Bluenose-has-a-redneck:

So because Stephen Harper tries to ramrod a piece of flamboyantly contentious legislation that even Conservative pundits said would cause a non-confidence vote it's a good idea? He's just shot himself in the foot, because he tried to treat a minority lead like he has a majority.

Another election within 9 months of the previous one will cost us how much? And produce what kind of voter turnout? If is this a Party strategy to deflate election funding for the opposition parties, there's a large flaw in the logic: the bill has to pass first.

The Liberals failed in all of their time in power to distance ourselves from poor trade spinoffs with the USA.

Um Johnny Redneck, the most one-sided trade deal in Canadian history was signed by that good Conservative boy Brian Mulroney. In case you've forgotten, we're still out at least $4 G in this province (remember lumber?) due to that misguided attempt to align us with the dubious distinctions of Reaganomics and Merkin Manifest Destiny.

What does David Emerson have to do with a coalition government? Nothing. That's a specious statement. One is about representing your electors, the other is a scramble to form a viable government without having to blow another $50-100 M on an election.

Does a coalition work? For some countries, yes. See Switzerland or Israel for functional examples; Italy for not-so-functional.

Will a coalition work in Canada? As a style of government, yes. With the current proposed participants? I don't think so. You already know how I feel about the Blocheads, so I think anyone who has to get into bed with The Oral Minority of the detritus of Quebec society deserves to have their heads examined. Sad to say, we will have another election when the yoyos putting this wrong-headed monster together decide they can't agree on an issue that involves the price of poutine in the Senate cafeteria, and the Tories will get their wish. And we'll have spent all that extra money for nothing.

I hate party politics. Mostly, I hate the partisanship that forces otherwise decent people to back stupid decisions because the Party Line says they have to. I hate the polarization that says that because somebody sits on the opposite side of the house from you, they can't possibly have a good idea.

Anybody want to try to predict the Provincial election?

Trece

 

[johnnybluenose]

Popular Vote:
Conservative - 37.63
Liberal - 26.24
NDP - 18.20

Add in another 6.9% for the Greens and it looks to me like there's a lot more support for the NDP/Liberal coalition than for the Conservatives. The only reason the Conservatives are currently in power is the vote splitting on the left. If they had won a majority, they could govern as they wished. If not, they have to work with another party and if they can't they lose power. That's the way our system works.

And, for the record, the NDP and the Liberals are mostly a bunch of twats so I'm not particularly pleased about this.

Ok, given that is a fact, also remember this fact. When voters hit polls they were voting for the party, not the coalition, therefore that argument holds about as much water as a sieve. Numbers would be a lot different if the NDP voters knew they were voting for Stephen Dion and not Layton as their leader...and the Bloc voters would not have voted as such if they knew Duceppe would cuddle up to Dion, the leader of the party they have been warring with for the last two decades.

 

[One Dart]

Why call something an economic stimulus package when it wasn't then? Why is there now a rush to table a budget early only after Canadians of all political stripes were upset by the lack of any real options to deal with the economy? The manufacturing, forestry, mining, and other resource based economies are struggling in Canada. That's life. We are a resource based economy that depends on trade. If the price of those resources fall and our trading partners suffer, so will our economy. Just because Jim Flaherty says we will have a surplus next year, doesn't mean it is going to happen. Economic stimulus can also refer to infrastructure projects and other government measures to promote job creation. This package did none of that. If you are out of work and don't spend anything, the 2% GST cut doesn't really help you know does it? Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that I pay 2% less, however in the grand scheme of things, a couple of bucks a month extra in my pocket really isn't going to be the difference between me buying a 40' flat screen TV or not. A perfect storm of opposition anger, cheap politics, and a useless finance minister have created this situation. It's not a constitutional crisis. Harper himself had the same idea in 2004 after Paul Martin was elected. How come it wasn't such a bad idea then to ask the BQ to form a coalition? At the end of the day, Harper miscalculated big time and it's probably going to cost him his job.

 

[johnnybluenose]

So because Stephen Harper tries to ramrod a piece of flamboyantly contentious legislation that even Conservative pundits said would cause a non-confidence vote it's a good idea? He's just shot himself in the foot, because he tried to treat a minority lead like he has a majority.

Only contentious since the bankrupt parties are trying to save their own bacon.

Another election within 9 months of the previous one will cost us how much? And produce what kind of voter turnout? If is this a Party strategy to deflate election funding for the opposition parties, there's a large flaw in the logic: the bill has to pass first.

Harper must have thought for sure that this would pass since the hippies wouldn't make their already pissed off, and apparently broke, supporters go to the polls again. I have already gone on record as saying it was ill-timed...yet I will not back down from calling them out since the real reason why they are forming, or attempting to form this coalition, is the above. Yet they are saying they need to "Save Canada by pumping in billions of dollars to save our economy" I want to know what they are saving it from?

Um Johnny Redneck, the most one-sided trade deal in Canadian history was signed by that good Conservative boy Brian Mulroney. In case you've forgotten, we're still out at least $4 G in this province (remember lumber?) due to that misguided attempt to align us with the dubious distinctions of Reaganomics and Merkin Manifest Destiny.

Yes, Mulroney was the man to sign the deal. However the Libs did nothing but bend over the barrell and ask if the Yanks wanted to do it harder. NAFTA is not/was not inclusionary of tarriffs on softwood...the Libs could have fought...they didn't, remember that NAFTA is an acronym for North American FREE TRADE Agreement

What does David Emerson have to do with a coalition government? Nothing. That's a specious statement. One is about representing your electors, the other is a scramble to form a viable government without having to blow another $50-100 M on an election.

It has everything to do with it. He was tarred and feathered to the point he is no longer in politics for crossing the floor. called out for not fulfilling his "Mandate" Yet it is okay for the three other parties to form a coalition, a coalition that was not on the horizon last month when voters hit polls. It is the exactly the same thing.

Does a coalition work? For some countries, yes. See Switzerland or Israel for functional examples; Italy for not-so-functional.

Will a coalition work in Canada? As a style of government, yes. With the current proposed participants? I don't think so. You already know how I feel about the Blocheads, so I think anyone who has to get into bed with The Oral Minority of the detritus of Quebec society deserves to have their heads examined. Sad to say, we will have another election when the yoyos putting this wrong-headed monster together decide they can't agree on an issue that involves the price of poutine in the Senate cafeteria, and the Tories will get their wish. And we'll have spent all that extra money for nothing.

agreed, however I am not up to speed enough on that to comment, what i will say it is highly unlikely it would work since the voting populace of Canada did not bless it's existance...so again, not a valid point.

 

[One Dart]

It's a very valid point to call your opponents Socialist/Anarchist/GranolaMunching/Lesbian/TreeHugging/EagleSaving/Protesting/BirkenstockWearing Hippies though.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Why call something an economic stimulus package when it wasn't then? Why is there now a rush to table a budget early only after Canadians of all political stripes were upset by the lack of any real options to deal with the economy? The manufacturing, forestry, mining, and other resource based economies are struggling in Canada. That's life. We are a resource based economy that depends on trade. If the price of those resources fall and our trading partners suffer, so will our economy. Just because Jim Flaherty says we will have a surplus next year, doesn't mean it is going to happen. Economic stimulus can also refer to infrastructure projects and other government measures to promote job creation. This package did none of that. If you are out of work and don't spend anything, the 2% GST cut doesn't really help you know does it? Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that I pay 2% less, however in the grand scheme of things, a couple of bucks a month extra in my pocket really isn't going to be the difference between me buying a 40' flat screen TV or not. A perfect storm of opposition anger, cheap politics, and a useless finance minister have created this situation. It's not a constitutional crisis. Harper himself had the same idea in 2004 after Paul Martin was elected. How come it wasn't such a bad idea then to ask the BQ to form a coalition? At the end of the day, Harper miscalculated big time and it's probably going to cost him his job.

Manufacturing is suffering because it costs less to manufacture things in non consumer countries. It is because of poorly negotiated contracts with unions that are too strong and do not really represent the folks they purport to represent coupled with exploitation in foreign lands.

Mining isn't all bad in BC and Canada for that matter. The problem is the freight of resources (Coal in Canada to the shipping ports to export to China for steelmaking as an example) The rail companies cost too much, and remove most of the competitive advantage. I don't see Dion or Layton commenting to this, which is a real problem.

Oil and Gas in Alberta
Uranium and Potash is Sask
Coal, Gold, and Copper in BC

The West is rich in resources and the Companies headquartered on Yonge street remove any profitability to move the resources toi port for export.

I don't see how pouring money into "The Economy" is going to instantly make the Rocky Mountains flat so CPR can lower their rates to Tech Coal, Western Canadian Coal, Peace River Coal, Highland Valley Copper, Northgate Minerals/Kemess.

 

[kjohnsob]

It's a very valid point to call your opponents Socialist/Anarchist/GranolaMunching/Lesbian/TreeHugging/EagleSaving/Protesting/BirkenstockWearing Hippies though.

I got one!

 

[johnnybluenose]

done and done

 

[One Dart]

A big part of economic forecasts deal with consumer confidence. This is the point I am trying to make. The economic update that the Conservatives presented did nothing for the economy in the way of a bailout, which I am not for, or in terms of increased government spending in the way of infrastructure which provides the benefit of jobs in the short term and tangible facilities/highways/bridges in the long term. Had the Conservatives not played the politics card and provided something, anything in the way of a plan, which is what they claimed they were doing, they would not have the problem they do now.

 

[hammerhead]

I think you guys are all giving the politicians way too much credit. This has nothing to do with the economy, or the good of canadians. Harper tried to kneecap the other parties and they hit back. The economy is just the excuse, a hot button with the public.

 

[kjohnsob]

I think you guys are all giving the politicians way too much credit. This has nothing to do with the economy, or the good of canadians. Harper tried to kneecap the other parties and they hit back. The economy is just the excuse, a hot button with the public.

The duck makes an excellent point.

 

[johnnybluenose]

You are dead right on the nuts hammerhead.

Harper trying to kneecap the opposition parties is the smartest thing he could have done. Yes iy is opportunistic, yes it is malicious, but the only people that care are the folks at the parties that will have no funding and the folks (the minority of Canadians) that support the left leaning ideals of the Liberals and the NDP.

The fact of the matter is, if those leftists cared more about the parties that purport to represent those ideals in a working Canada they would support the parties monetarily as well as vocally. The Bloc and Conservative supporters out there vocally support their parties, but they also buck up.

The Liberals are dead in the water. They are broke, leaderless (Ignatieuff and Rae are screwed with the Martin and Cretien Legacy and Dion is a bumbling fool)

The NDP have a poor/zero track record of running governments.

The Bloc's sole mandate is to destroy Canada as we know it.

I cannot see this coalition taking form. Governer General Jean cannot possibly put Dion (Who has admitted to already deciding he will resign as leader of the Liberals) in power of a leftist Coalition including the Bloc, it would be outrageous. More outrageous than calling another election, and that is certainly what Mr. Harper (who we are better off with ) is banking on.
If that happens look for a landslide majority Conservative Govt. Even fickle Liberal Supporting Ontario and Quebec would see massive voting shift to the Conservatives...

Think of how many people voted for the Liberals because although they were Conservative at heart, they "couldn't trust Harper" I wonder if they feel that way about their parties forming a coalition now? Think of how many Bloc voters would turn and vote conservative after seeing their precious Duceppe side with that Evil group of men known as the Liberals...