Premier [FVSL Premier] Results, Banter & Such Aug/September 09'

[ghouse]

Flip Flop? We need to attract more younger officials and for the love of the game just wont cut it. Money talks is what I am saying. A tiered system where div 3 officials are paid less than Premier officials. They get raises as they move up the divisions as they get promoted themselves.
Dude everyone knows I am far from perfect...But this is not about me. This is about the FVSL needing more qualified good officials. When I shoot my mouth off I am punished. When a ref shoots his mouth off nothing happens. That is my point.
Officials need to be held accountable for their actions just as players do.
But as of now what ever an official writes in his report is all that counts. How is an official held accountable? the reports we file ? come on . Has any official ever been suspended?
Remember we had a center official tell our season ending injury captian to quit rolling around like a princess...We got 3 reds for telling him what we thought of his comment and he was on the pitch the next week as we all sat. And he reffed us again 2 weeks later while we still were sitting. All from what was in his report. And we went to the hearings and told what he had said to our player to egg on the comments made by us. Infact we took an email in from one of the players on the other team to back our story up..still nothing was done.
Why? because there is a real shortage of officials. No linesmen for div 1 is your first indication of the shortage. Div 1 plays on A forms yet are treated like B form Players.
Most arguements comeing from players in games without linesmen are a direct result of calls made from either on or off-side calls. Not that there is anything a center official can due because its impossable for him to be in 2 places at once and yes he must make what he thinks is the right call.....You have all seen this.
the 2econd indication of the shortage in officials is the fact that you see the same guys reffing div 3 or div 2 and also Premier games .
The 3rd indication is you see the same guys ref you week in and week out.
The 4th indication is some of these officials are not game fit and stand at the center of the park all game and nothing is done to inforce them to get fit.

We need more quality Officials Period.
And we need to pay them for the work they do.
gas money is no way to say thankyou or to attract more refs.

 

[whistle blower]

Every person has there own ideas and put them on TTP but like like i have said before IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO REF YOURSELF DO NOT COME ON HERE PUTTING PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO REF DOWN. Throwing money at ref's is not going to help, showing respect might. Do you really think ref's want to hear 22 plus people giving there Opinion everytime he makes a call. You keep talking about the league holding Ref's accountable but do teams police themself when one of ther players have done something wrong. Only once i have seen a coach telling player that he was a idiot after being sent off for Foul language at a ref. In fact i have witnessed time after time players going to the sideline after being sent off after trying to break other players legs and ther team mates are feeling bad for ther own player.


You are just talking about the send off, how many times before the send off did the ref have to deal with dissent by this player or his teammates . Sounds like the player had already had his say so why not just walk away with a yellow without further dissent by word or action.

I don't know if you have worked it out put ref's are human they make mistakes just like players, but do you talk to your own players with such disrespect.

 

[ghouse]

I agree with you on everything exept I feel we need to pay the refs more. No one wants to become an official because it doesnt pay enough for the travel and time and yes the abuse.

 

[Rigger15]

Whistle blower is right but also wrong here. Yes respect to officials is important but just as important is the need for officials to own up for their major errors here. I have no problem saying guys you know what I messed that one up and I am sorry. But to run a round the park smiling all day long thinking the smile is going to get you some sort of respect is rubbish. As I posted earlier 3 main incidents all within 2 minutes of each changed a very good game (I am sure know would disagree) to an absolute shite game in a flash.

Where is the accountability of the official here as it was his glaring mistakes that created some of the problems? The GEU kid will now sit for a month or so and the ref will be back at it next week. Equality? We both know as refs there is no assessing going on unless you want to fork over the game fee to someone to come and tell you what you did well and what you did wrong. Why doesn't the FVSL take some of the monies they collect from teams at the start of the season and during the season (fines) and have ongoing assessing of the officials to see who and who shouldn't be in the middle of games at various levels.

It's hard to defend referees when they are held to a higher standing simply by their job. Players are right to want to have them be accountable. They are right in saying that no matter what the referee rights he is always right. I have written and read some pretty poor referee reports in my time and am quite willing to say that on more than one occasion it was my fault as a referee that the game went sideways.

Everybody speaks of great referees like Rob Brown and than other referees try to be him. What was great about him is that he held himself accountable for his work!

The answer lies within the FVSL to get better officials but I disagree that money is not part of the solution. It might not mean referees getting paid more $ but it might mean teams paying extra to make sure the officials have someone watching them to have them accountable to. Players are accountable to their teams, the referees and certainly the standings. I don't think many players don't look to see where they are in the standings and I am quite sure no coach plays players that aren't getting the job done properly.

Mistakes happen but it's what happens after them that need to be addressed. Do they recognize their errors and more importantly do they learn from them. As of now I would say more often than not no. Most referees go away thinking about what was said to them to cause the red instead of why would a player be so stupid to actually say something that outrageous. What has happened to get the player so riled up in the first place? In the GEU game without a doubt to me it was the referees 3 major blunders in 2 minutes.

 

[The Franchise]

I don't know if you have worked it out put ref's are human they make mistakes just like players, but do you talk to your own players with such disrespect.

I agree with everything you are saying but when ref's make mistakes and give an unjustice red are they owning up to it or just letting it go and costing a player multi games.

Your thoughts

 

[ghouse]

I also want to add , any assessing should be done without the official knowing he is being assesed. for obvious reasons. (that is a problem going on now.officials know when a sr official is at the game doing their assesment). Night and Day for sure. Assesments should be done by sr officials from other provinces (and not by a friend)so the official in question does not know he is being assesed.

 

[kjohnsob]

I also want to add , any assessing should be done without the official knowing he is being assesed. for obvious reasons. (that is a problem going on now.officials know when a sr official is at the game doing their assesment). Night and Day for sure. Assesments should be done by sr officials from other provinces (and not by a friend)so the official in question does not know he is being assesed.

from other provinces? come on. Amateur soccer remember.

 

[ghouse]

Well you got a better idea?

 

[Dude]

Ghouse...on the flip-flop, it is simply because on this issue alone, you at first siad "Yes, clear dissent, deserved it", then after reading Outkast's post you're siding w/ his version of events.

This is pretty clear to me: kid didn't like the call, gave it to the ref, ref booked him for the foul language and warned him, kid then goes and makes an idiotic gesture that is again a clear sign of dissent. Red. Case closed.

As for your other ideas, I tend to agree that almost anything can be accomplished with more money. There is a serious shortage, and somehow BC Soccer needs to figure out a way to get more officials involved. Money may be one way.

 

[fat monkey]

Just a few years ago (maybe 5-7?), referees were being paid $40 per game. Now they're being being 50% more at $60. It appears that BC Soccer is trying to pay them more.

What amount do think is fair? For me, $60 per game is pretty good money. That works out to close to $30 an hour. If he does two per weekend, he makes $120 tax free. Many refs do quite a bit more than two per weekend, which I don't happen to agree with, but that's for another day.

And just to stay on topic, has Port Moody surprised anybody with their first two results?

 

[ratvay]

that was way to much reading..............

 

[Dude]

Yes, there are obviously several other issues that would need addressing, not just money.

And, for the record, I think all you refs have a mental make-up issue already for wanting to do this, even for $60.00 / game, but whatever. I could do w/ out a couple of you, but the rest of the guys are generally good guys trying to do a good job w/ very little support.

FM: Not surprised, given that I think this year in particular is seeing a major changing of the guard. Many old vets moving on, and in general it is a younger player's league. Port Moody comes in well coached, works very hard, and plays a system.

 

[Regs]

Every person has there own ideas and put them on TTP but like like i have said before IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO REF YOURSELF DO NOT COME ON HERE PUTTING PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO REF DOWN.

WB,

Since I'm not willing to ref, are you to say that I shouldn't make any mention of any referee performance whatsoever on TTP?

What I'm seeing here in this thread is a discussion that started with a slag towards shite refereeing morph into some good thoughts and in general, AGREEMENT THAT THE PLAYER DESERVED WHAT HE GOT.

Without the original post, outside of that player's team, noone else in the league would have been discussing proper respect for officials.

To say or allude to, that you shouldn't critique an official after the fact is, well, on the silly side of things.

Regs.

 

[Dude]

He's just pissed that so many guys are now taking the opportunity to kick him on Friday nights when he suits up for the NDUA squad. Little sensitive.

 

[whistle blower]

WB,

Since I'm not willing to ref, are you to say that I shouldn't make any mention of any referee performance whatsoever on TTP?


Regs.

Yes that is what i am saying

 

[ghouse]

Dude just to clear my flip flop up. I do agree that any time you tell a Ref to Fukc off you should be shown the Red. But when an official taunghts or eggs on a verbal attack such as a fukc off then an inquirey needs to be set up. sounds like alot of work. But an official must be held accountable and hopefully after a few inquireys(sp) things would change.
Last year we all were filling out game sheets incorrectly and we had a meeting and fines and points were given back. What came out of the meeting were new rules,instructions and better league game sheets. Now there is no confusion.
Maybe an inquirey into a game or 2 will set standards for officials and players aswell.
Yes the rules are clear. But really they are for the player only. Secumstances should be discussed and officials should be made clear on what is appropreate language out of their mouths too.
Just a thought.

 

[Dude]

I get where you are coming from, but the F-Bomb direct at a ref will almost certainly get you a yellow, and a second one will almost certainly get you a red. In a case like this one, it sounds to me like there was abslutely no egging on, just a simple "try me if you think I'm not serious" sort of answer. Kid tried, and was shown red.

And, hey- just a thought...given your players have a reputation for diving and play-acting, don't you think that maybe in the case of your guy getting injured that perhaps the ref felt like he was being egged on?

~Devil's advocate.

 

[ghouse]

What reputation...they are all fricken pks man.

 

[girth]

I'm still laughing that a ref told a player to fcuk off

 

[jimmy_jones]

I get where you are coming from, but the F-Bomb direct at a ref will almost certainly get you a yellow, and a second one will almost certainly get you a red....

that's wrong. f-bomb directed at any officials or anyone for that matter is a straight red. PERIOD. bc soccer has taken serious actions on cracking down official abuse. few years ago f-bomb directed at ref would be 3-5 games...now its 6,7 games sometimes even more. players need to understand abusing the official is not tolerated whether its pro level or even grass roots. but when an official starts using that kind of language then the league and/or bc soccer need to step in and do something about it.