Canada Vs Honduras Oct 16

[akslop]

Stephen Hart resigned...per Jason DeVos from CSA conf call

just heard that... just caught the end of it on team 1040... FCUK me if true but they were saying since Hart became coach from his position as technical director they have not put in a replacement for him??

WOW



apply here

http://www.sirc.ca/careers/jobs_vie...=&intJobType=0&intJobTypeStatus=0&start_row=1

devos article here

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=400945

 

[akslop]

yikes

B.C. conservation officer with DFO shot dead in Honduras

article says he was not in Honduras for work

RIP

 

[Tactically Inept]

Fck me 9-1 now...it get's worse!

 

[Dude]

Dude does not any part of u think victor could be tainted from the previous regime? Maybe by no fault of his as its human nature.

Kinda like a lance armstrong piss sample

The task of reshaping any organization when you can the President / CEO is monumental. I don't believe he is tainted, but I do believe he is hamstrung by the organization and people around him.

I don't think he's been in place nearly long enough to make any sort of impact, positive or negative.

If there is a way to clean house of everyone deemed useless / expendable / a road block to his agenda under him, I'd do it. That said, I don't know how the organization is structured. Can anyone comment on that?

 

[trece verde]

Commenting...

We suffered through 21 years of Kevan Pipe' ineptness. Vic was elected as a VP under Colin Linford and has been at the CSA since 2007. One could argue that it takes (and has taken) time to disassemble the bureaucracy that Pipe and his co-parasites put together, and one could also argue that 5 years should be more than enough time to make your mark on even a badly-broken system. Vic is a personable guy, and yes, very passionate about the game. Is he the right person for the job? Depends on what you define the job as. Probably not if you want somebody with no ties to just come in and clean house, but I would say yes as the individual who would have to follow that and build new bridges. Shite time to take on a new job like this, because everything he does will be scrutinized under the magnifying glass of footy fans and press in this country.

In terms of what needs to happen, let's make it easy:

1. No more provincial association bullshite or kingdom-building. You belong to the CSA, period. Too many administrators and not enough functional people leads only to inertia. Provincial associations should exist only to help identify players for the national program and national training centres, and to sort out us recreational types.
2. National technical director in place IMMEDIATELY, then a true national team coach who is allowed the autonomy to select players from the program as that individual sees fit, not to met some misguided sense of "national unity" or whatever else excuse was given to Hart. Pay for a good coach with a winning record at the international level and give them the budget to do the job properly.
3. There are more stadiums in the country than BMO field. The CSA owes it to Canadian players and fans to make it as difficult as possible for visiting teams to get points from games here. Make the Hondurans play in Edmonton or St. John's in November.
4. Get the fcukin' "pro" teams out of the provincial/national systems. Academies are fine, but FFS, make them compliment the national interest. A "pro" team cannot have its interests override those of the national side. Provincial/National development centres should not be farm teams for the pro sides.
5. CPSL or otherwise, there HAS to be a national league with a vested interest in developing Canadian players. Set it up and do it with multiple divisions. The MLS has nothing to offer Canadian soccer except some limited spots to play. The league and its so-called "Canadian" franchises are NOT interested in developing Canadian players; if they were, then those players would be playing here already. No, Terry does not count. This will also lead to more opportunities for better coaches and better officials.
6. Better grassroots programs. NOW. This has actually already started, but is still too limited in scope. I cringe when I see some of the sorry excuses for coaches involved in the kids' game. FFS, if you want to coach your kid, get trained properly, and keep learning about the game. If we don't train our coaches properly, how can we expect our players to get better? Start 'em properly when they're young, and keep doing it properly. Put more resources into training the trainers...
7. True player-focused development that identifies and grows elite level players based on their potential and abilities, not the contents or thickness of their parents' wallets. There is a grain of truth in Mr. Base's assertions that not all the best players play at the best level.

Too simplistic? Probably. It still needs to be done, though.

 

[Jigsaw]

Well said, at last someone with an idea of what is going on and what needs to be done.
Don't be fooled by all of the crap being dished out on how the MLS teams are developing players. They are not.
We keep hearing about Clarke,Tiebert and some other player, who's name escapes me. (It just shows how prominent they are)
The track record of player development here in BC is shocking to say the least.
There are virtually no players being developed, or selected for Canada's National Teams at any level.
Even the ones that the Whitecaps keep bragging about, only 1 is from BC (Clarke).

With no league to play in and learn how to become a "Pro" there is no chance for these players to develop.

In 1994 the USA made $52 million from the World Cup and got another $200 million from Nike.
They started the MLS and owned all of the teams.
They kept all teams from "folding" and susidized them.
After a few years with fiscal advice, the clubs had a "template" on how to operate and not be in "the red".
When the league became stable, they let owners buy clubs and now every team is in for the long haul.

In and around 1990 the CSL was in operation and all of the clubs were losing money and the league was in trouble of "folding", which it did, eventually.
The Commishener of the League asked the CSA for help to keep the league alive.
They asked for $1 from every player who registered with the CSA, which, at that time would have meant an influx of around $500,000. More than enough to keep the league afloat.
The CSA, in their wisdom siad "NO".

That would prove to be the biggest mistake in the History of the CSA.

The CSL may not have been as big or as good as the MLS, but it was a platform for the Canadian kids to play in and develop.

During the time that I was Asst. Coach with the MNT. we finished 3rd. in CONCACAF in 1994 and would have qualified, if it had been 3 teams from our zone, as it is now and not 24.
In 1998 we finished top of the group, to go into the last 6 before bowing out.

Half of the team were playing in Europe, but the other half played in the CSL and we were better then than we are now, no matter what these current player's say about how good they are.

It saddens me to see the game declining here but to call a spade a spade, it is.
It will take years to put right. To do that we need to look to get people involved who know something about the game.
Unless we can get the CSA to realize that we need a league we have absolutely no chance of playing in a World Cup again.

The only reason we got there in 1986, was the NASL and our Canadians playing regularly with some of the worlds best, not playing in Academies.

As far as De-Guzzman and Hoillett not wanting to play for Canada until they get into the final round of play is crap.
Who do they think they are?
Take their passports away and let them go to live in the Country that they choose to play for, when they retire.

 

[Mr Base]

Jigsaw the reason we got there in 1986 was due to Tony as a coach. System of play is the main reason we did not get there this time.
You must win home games period. If you wached last game our guys went to all out attack on a skilled team.
That is a mistake of Tony and Steve. Nine guys in your own half first fourty five. Team must play way more deffensive to gain results against little speedy guys that can withstand heat. We last the game and a chance on tactical soccer.
There's far tomany guys dictating to head coaches and to assistant coach what to do. There is six people always on coaches ars.
I feal bad for Steven due to bad loss. In my opinion is is heck of a guy. Delet bunch of guys that do't even know what man marking is.Next guy will get the same result unless he goes across this land and gets five guys with athletic ability in defese role.Big and strong is fine but the player must be able to move lateraly,not just up and down.

 

[glacierfresh]

Harry Redknapp keen on international management | Mail Online

Bring in Harry!!

 

[Jigsaw]

With all due respect Mr. Base, I was on the Coaching Staff for the Team in 1986.
Yes Tony was a great Coach and his system was flawless.
But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
The reason Tony was able to have the players play well within his system, was because they were accomplished "Pro's" that were playing in the NASL alongside Beckinbaur, Cruff Kroll Best, etc.
They trained and played at the top level.
Not like the players these days.
If the NASL did not have the rule to have 3 Canadians on the FIELD at one time, the likes of Lenarduzzi, Mitchell. Valentine,Wilson,Bridge,Gray,Norman would not have been as well prepared to play in CONCACAF and win.

 

[termatofylakas]

So what you are saying jigsaw is that if the rule wasn't in place then those guys wouldn't have been on the field kind of like the current players? It seems to me like soccer was crap in this country back then as it is today. Maybe the other countries were as bad and have improved while we just stay flatlined.

One problem I see is that some former players get these technical director positions in clubs around here and really haven't got a clue in how things should be run. They may have been good/decent players but that doesn't mean they can make a club run smoothly and improve it.

Face it until you get rid of some of the old farts and start hiring guys with no bias and that have paid their dues and are properly qualified then things won't change. As long as people keep getting appointed because of "Hey man this guy was an awesome player" then we will continue down this path.

Let's ask Argentina how good ole Diego was for them on the bench. Or why is it that most of the time that Pele opens his mouth he says something stupid? Both these guys were great players but I shudder to think of what they would do as managers.

 

[Jigsaw]

I'm saying that the players then were in a better environment to become top players and able to compete in CONCACAF.
How do you know if soccer was crap back then?
It was a lot better than it is now, only because we had more players training and playing at the top level in North America.
It' not about the coaching or the ex pro's who get jobs as Tecnical Directors.
It's about getting as many Canadians playing at the top level and having a bigger pool of talent to draw from.
It sounds like your one of these experts with an opinion, with no background in the game to back it up.
That is part of the problem here in Canada, too many know it all's who complain and not enough people in the trenches trying to put it right.
So who do you think should take over from these "old farts"?
They seem to have some young guys employed now with no bias, but who have they developed?
Look at the Academies and tell me who is developing players.
Diego Maradona was a flop as a coach I agree, but we don't have any Diego Maradona's here, unfortunately. If we did, maybe we should play him in the MNT, he would do better than what we have, even at his age.
Give me some names as who you think should be coaching then.
Who and where are these Guy's? with no bias?
Can you name another Country in the World that does not have a domestic league?
Sounds like your full of crap, all complaining and no solution.

 

[Ballbaby]

Well said, at last someone with an idea of what is going on and what needs to be done.
Don't be fooled by all of the crap being dished out on how the MLS teams are developing players. They are not.
We keep hearing about Clarke,Tiebert and some other player, who's name escapes me. (It just shows how prominent they are)
The track record of player development here in BC is shocking to say the least.
There are virtually no players being developed, or selected for Canada's National Teams at any level.
Even the ones that the Whitecaps keep bragging about, only 1 is from BC (Clarke).

With no league to play in and learn how to become a "Pro" there is no chance for these players to develop.

In 1994 the USA made $52 million from the World Cup and got another $200 million from Nike.
They started the MLS and owned all of the teams.
They kept all teams from "folding" and susidized them.
After a few years with fiscal advice, the clubs had a "template" on how to operate and not be in "the red".
When the league became stable, they let owners buy clubs and now every team is in for the long haul.

In and around 1990 the CSL was in operation and all of the clubs were losing money and the league was in trouble of "folding", which it did, eventually.
The Commishener of the League asked the CSA for help to keep the league alive.
They asked for $1 from every player who registered with the CSA, which, at that time would have meant an influx of around $500,000. More than enough to keep the league afloat.
The CSA, in their wisdom siad "NO".

That would prove to be the biggest mistake in the History of the CSA.

The CSL may not have been as big or as good as the MLS, but it was a platform for the Canadian kids to play in and develop.

During the time that I was Asst. Coach with the MNT. we finished 3rd. in CONCACAF in 1994 and would have qualified, if it had been 3 teams from our zone, as it is now and not 24.
In 1998 we finished top of the group, to go into the last 6 before bowing out.

Half of the team were playing in Europe, but the other half played in the CSL and we were better then than we are now, no matter what these current player's say about how good they are.

It saddens me to see the game declining here but to call a spade a spade, it is.
It will take years to put right. To do that we need to look to get people involved who know something about the game.
Unless we can get the CSA to realize that we need a league we have absolutely no chance of playing in a World Cup again.

The only reason we got there in 1986, was the NASL and our Canadians playing regularly with some of the worlds best, not playing in Academies.

As far as De-Guzzman and Hoillett not wanting to play for Canada until they get into the final round of play is crap.
Who do they think they are?
Take their passports away and let them go to live in the Country that they choose to play for, when they retire.

Jigsaw, I agree with you but I believe there are some interesting facets at play in the local scene. I do believe as a whole we now have collectively a larger, more talented, group of players being developed as a whole than the era you are talking about. Clubs and academies are training more players at a younger age BUT that does not mean that they will develop into becoming better players than the ones you were involved with. I believe your rationale explains why this is the case, but I cannot dismiss that as talented as our young players are, they are soft. They are truly soft. They are truly products of their environment. When things get tough, they find excuses, go somewhere else, play something else, or whine.

Our young Canadian players choked. They aren't in an environment long enough to develop the nerve, and the focus to sustain prolonged periods of pressure. This can only be gained by experience. How many of our players go to Europe, catch on with a team, do well for several months, and then fade away? They have the skill-set, but they do not have the drive and determination to sustain themselves when the environment turns a tad sour, largely due to the fact that the native players truly realize a threat has arrived and they play for their lives! Our Canadians come home.

Many of the players you were involved with were offspring from 1st generation immigrants to Canada or landed immigrants themselves. People can criticize Lenarduzzi all they want, but the guy did his job against the best. He wasn't ultra-talented, but he played within his limitations and fulfilled his responsibilities. Hainault is more talented than Lenarduzzi but he isn't tougher or as disciplined based on what I have been seeing. Typifies it all, that example. How about Bruce Wilson? Same position as Hainault. Are you kidding me? Wilson would eat him alive. But Hainault is more skilled than Wilson.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Man, is this missing right now. All the UEFA A, CSA A credentials and LTPD rhetoric is great but someone better make sure they teach coaches to make their players accountable.

 

[termatofylakas]

So what's with the attack? You bitter with something in the past? It was you that wrote, "If the NASL did not have the rule to have 3 Canadians on the FIELD at one time, the likes of Lenarduzzi, Mitchell. Valentine,Wilson,Bridge,Gray,Norman would not have been as well prepared to play in CONCACAF and win." That is why I said it sounds to me like players weren't really better and it looks as though teams were forced to play three Canadians on the field at once. And has soccer really gotten worse or again have the other nations gotten better? You said it yourself that the USA poured money into their program whereas here it seems to be that funding is always the main complaint.

Oh and keep preaching about the past and keep thumping your chest about how good you guys did/were. I see your involvement in the game has progressed Canada quite a bit.

I agree we need a league, even if it's a stepping stone for the MLS and/or Europe, but there's alot to fix before the kids get old enough to play in these leagues. We can go on and on but it won't solve anything. Obviously we have differing opinions and that won't change.

 

[mtkb]

I think we all need to take a deep breath.

With my modest provincial B coaching license, I dont begin to purport to have all, or any of the answers. That said, I do believe that the key to all of this is the proper development of players at the youngest ages.

To the extent that there has been any development in the past, its been because ONE coach has taken a "select" group of, for instance, 8 year olds, and trained them as "his" players... That group of a dozen or so kids gets developed, and the rest of the kids at that club at that age group get the coach who's only doing it because its gets him away from the wifey.

The problem has been that this approach has been repeated at every level along the way. Get the brand of approval, stay in the top program for life. Only its not life, because a lot of those players either burn out or dont end up being our best athletes once they hit their prime.

In the meantime, we've basically round-filed every other kid from the start of the golden age of coaching. This in a country where we KNOW we're going to lose a good percentage of our elite athletes who would prefer to chase a black disc around a sheet of ice. In other words, we've been doomed to miss what little we have. How often have you seen an absolute stud of a teenage athlete playing soccer at some middling level, with an absolutely abysmal first touch.

The good news is that the grassroots clubs appear to be getting it, at least in my area. It appears that the "academy" work is being offered to a much larger cross-section of player, and that the parents are (quite literally of course) buying in. Our incoming u13 teams are light years ahead of where comparable teams were even five years ago. And its not like MUFC is running away and hiding in the BCSPL standings - far from it.

There is a tendency to want to re-invent the wheel when things go as poorly as they did in Honduras. But maybe thats the problem. Every time we get a shocking result we want every head to roll and every development plan to be torn up and redone.

Maybe its time we have some faith in what we're doing at the youth level, and have the patience to see a generation of player through from grassroots, to BCSPL and/or Whitecaps, and on to the various national teams.

I could care less how the players who came up in the "system" of 20 years ago perform. It sounds like thats about when things started going sideways post-Waiters era (I was a 12 year old warming a gold team's bench so I defer to those of you with greyer hair). I care far more about how our u17, u19 and u21 national teams do in the next 5-10 years. I expect you will start to see considerable improvement in results which should eventually translate at the CMNT level as well...

 

[Jigsaw]

So what's with the attack? You bitter with something in the past? It was you that wrote, "If the NASL did not have the rule to have 3 Canadians on the FIELD at one time, the likes of Lenarduzzi, Mitchell. Valentine,Wilson,Bridge,Gray,Norman would not have been as well prepared to play in CONCACAF and win." That is why I said it sounds to me like players weren't really better and it looks as though teams were forced to play three Canadians on the field at once. And has soccer really gotten worse or again have the other nations gotten better? You said it yourself that the USA poured money into their program whereas here it seems to be that funding is always the main complaint.

Oh and keep preaching about the past and keep thumping your chest about how good you guys did/were. I see your involvement in the game has progressed Canada quite a bit.

I agree we need a league, even if it's a stepping stone for the MLS and/or Europe, but there's alot to fix before the kids get old enough to play in these leagues. We can go on and on but it won't solve anything. Obviously we have differing opinions and that won't change.

And what is your contribution again?

Not bitter at all, just stating the facts.
We don't have a league, can no-one see that this is the number one problem?
As for the "new regime" They just have not done it.
No development in the past 10 years, despite the money being thrown at it.
Maybe it's time to look at who is doing the coaching of there so called better players.

 

[RL RCD]

Too simplistic? Probably. It still needs to be done, though.

I'd like to comment on #4 and #6 (better to say add to it). For me, those two are connected, especially in BC. Now, let's just see what has Whitecaps influence brought to BC soccer.

Maybe 7,8 years ago we started in BC with IPL (Intra Provincial League). The idea was to form several "regional" teams that would play April -September (in addition to regular season September - March). I thought that it was the first step toward having the season extended for top players. IPL lasted maybe two years.

Then Whitecaps got a license for Super Y League. They did not allow anyone else to apply for the same licence until one of the Whitecaps teams was suspended in Florida during the Super Y finals. Suddenly, over the night, Whitecaps "affiliated" with Mountain FC and Coastal FC (two newly formed teams for the sole purpose of competing in Super Y league) plus Abbotsford and later on "the affiliation" was extended to Metro Ford and Surrey United (ifI am not mistaken). The interest in Super Y league was growing every year and Mountain, Coastal, and Metro Ford brought home trophies from Florida over the next 3, 4 years.

During that time (and "affiliation") Whitecaps have done nothing to support any of those "affiliated" teams with the exception that they were constantly selling the idea how the kids had a chance to train in a pro environment. That idea cost the parents dearly because naive parents started paying an arm and a leg for a 3-month season (the season was anywhere from $1,500 to $2,000 plus the cost for trips to Florida, another $2,000 or even more).
One year in Florida one Y-team team made it all the way to the Finals and Super Y league had a conference in Tampa. Bobaduzzi attended the conference but did not find time to visit the Whitecaps "affiliated" team in a hotel or to watch the final game. That is really how Bobaduzzi and Whitecaps cared about anything related to youth soccer and what they were thinking about the youth development.

Then some geniuses in BCSA realized how much money parents were spending on Super Y league so they came up with the idea to scrap Super Y league and form HPLleague here in BC which would cost basically the same as Super Y league. Think about this - we are after 7,8 years basically back to the initial Intra Provincial League but, of course, now it is more costly because, for God's sake, the kids are now training in a pro environment!!! By the way, it looks that HPL is proven to be a failure because a lot of good players do not want to play in that league and pay high fees.

Where am I getting with all this? The point is that soccer has become a big business for some people. Those people keep their positions, change "system" every two, three years so we all could be fooled that something is being done, etc. At the same time I have not seen any improvement in BC soccer for the last 10, 15 years (and the same is with Canadian soccer in general).

 

[ThiKu]

I am also just a lowly "B" Provincial coach. And you know what, I can't be bothered to even attempt to get to a higher level of coaching certification. What's the point? What will it get me? I have a career and getting a CSA "A" won't replace that career, not even close. There aren't any pro gigs out there, and I have no "name" so I ain't ever going to be a TD. Though that may also be because I say "ain't" a lot. My point is, I am not this great and wonderful coach, but I work my ass off to improve myself as a coach for the kids, and for myself, and with no help from BCSA or CSA - certification (piece of paper) be damned. I've had my "B" for 5+ years and am a far superior coach now to what I was then thanks to no help from the governing bodies. Huge thanks to my club TD for support over the years though!

But that's only one issue. Here's issue #2. Coach development. Since I've received my "B" the BCSA has hosted 2 or 3 conferences at BC Place, and now recently the Whitecaps have also done this. With the invention of twitter I was able to remark in a public forum an idea on how to implement coach development to a mass audience on a monthly basis - hosted by BCSA and/or CSA. I remarked there's only been a GK coach course offered recently - which cost of course. BCSA said "great!" and said I should contact my club and TD to arrange more. I responded "shouldn't coach development be driven by BCSA/CSA?" I eagerly await a response.

My idea is a simple one to state, though I honestly can't remark on how simple it would be to implement. FREE (or very cheap!) online streamed coach courses with either chat capability during the video, or a post-stream online forum where the course could be discussed. You can have monthly courses. If CSA runs this you could have each province host once per year, and the sessions could be run at the national training centres, or provincial program sessions. Each province runs a topic-specific session - just as your normal practices should be! Attacking in the final third, interplay in the centre of the park to find width, 1v1 defending, technical session on teaching using laces to pass over distance etc etc etc etc etc. Make them age appropriate.

This, it seems to me, would be far cheaper and easier to organize than community-based in-person sessions as are run now - which are poorly attended. These should be free.

The #1 issue in this country is player development. Players can't be developed however without coaches being developed.

(order of priority is obviously adaptable! I need no "convincing" of something being more important than others - this is off top of head)
1. Develop coaches (no cost to coaches unless the coach seeks certifications)
2. Coaches then develop players.
3. Competitive elite leagues (BCSPL, Ontario's coming league etc) so like-minded players can compete
4. Nationwide league (similar to USSDA)
4b. Sponsorship to create COST-REDUCTION so ALL players of sufficient level can compete without the inhibition of fees.
5. Pro academies (MLS, NASL - rumoured two more teams coming to Canada)
5b. Pro's develop pro's, not non-profit youth clubs!
6. Nationwide league, with a u23 requirement (or make it a u23 league with some overage players - minimum 6 months, and run professionally with online streaming, off-field standards both financial and facility, youth affiliations, and v-cup entry for all teams)
7. Youth national programs given extraordinary funding (seems this is happening already - u17, u18, u20 mens have all been going to overseas tours within the last two years regularly ... and doing fairly well! u23's finishing 3rd recently, for example)
8. MLS Canadian squads raise the number of required Canadians to .... #X ?? (and stop counting guys like Rochat as domestic!!!)
9. "B" Canada squad of all domestic talents play games regularly. Closed-doors, overseas tournaments. Whatever. Make them youth-based of course. All your NCAA talents (Becker, Beckie, Haber, Rowley....some guys are tearing-up NCAA right now), and MLS academy kids (the ones NOT part of the "A" youth national teams - ie, Alderson is on an "A" youth national team). Get them games! Look at where a guy like REB is now and where he was 4 years ago, or a guy like Josh Simpson before those "B" national team games - there's huge value in a "B" team in Canada.
9b. CIS players become NCAA draft-eligible.
9c. Canadian teams stop making ridiculous draft choices like Greg Klazura (Bless his effort though), and start bringing in their youth guys or guys like SAIKO who have significant skill sets, and are actually younger and Canadian. How the hell is Saiko not in MLS? (tip: MLS won't pay transfer fee's to NASL for some unknown and ridiculous reason)

10. Provincial Programs must be FREE, and should be attending FOREIGN competitions. Scrap the national championships. Leave those to the club teams. PTP should be playing abroad as much as possible.

11. Club Canada. Have a u23 team in the USL Pro, funded by CSA/provincial associations. The national team coach or at least the u23 national team coach could run this team. Base it in Toronto and play out of BMO. Club Canada could have a u19 team in PDL as well as their reserves.

 

[ThiKu]

BCSA response to them and CSA taking the lead on coach development was the creation of the grassroots program. And that CSA educates BCSA and BCSA then educates the coaches in their province. I'll leave remarks on that up to you guys - you can imagine my thoughts!

My idea of streaming is not strict. They could simply video a session, then post it online for viewing at any time. Which is prob cheaper, gives the same benefits, and could be tweaked to highlight important points by stopping the video and reviewing. chat/message board could still accompany it.

If only I was a computer-guy! I'd set this up myself or at least know how.

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

the poor coach, The one guy who never steps on the field feels the heat and gets the blame.


Seriously though, is Bob Lenarduzzi still involved in canadian soccer?

 

[STD]

Fck me 9-1 now...it get's worse!

I'm all for take the piss but that's a bit off side and in bad taste.