Canada MNT: Road to 2018

[akslop]

Oh my God; are you defending a performance that saw Canada to finish on last place with 20 goals against and only 5 in favour?
You are the problem that prevents this country advance. Defending dismal performances.

Dont call me God , Just call me sir.

And when your done rummaging through the archives of the mayan ruins looking for 20 year old highlights shot from a sony handy cam, Maybe you could post something relevant and more current. Oh and if its not to much to ask in High def too please.

Yes Its all my fault Canada for Canada's dismal performance

Well done Consuela!

 

[Dude]

wait a minute... as somebody has pointed out in the past... compared to results of 8-1 a 4-1 loss or 3-2 loss does not seem that bad.

Seriously guys. When you are going to wake up? Specially those who are in charge and teaching the youngsters. When they are going to accept that they have been doing things in a horrible manner (from grassroots i.e. @Dude to the highest level?). Perhaps the Canadian coach forgot to bring ice cream on the game in Tegucigalpa.


I will make it clear and to the point. Even the very best in the history of this blessed country DO NOT KNOW how to play the game and do not KNOW how to teach the game.
Awareness is the first step to change the current situation. This silly consolations that our young are good but then do not have opportunities is complete stupidity.
Yes, let me repeat it. It is complete and utter stupidity.

Really?
I thought you were going away?

@soccercoach, you continue to bring up my name, in accusing me, specifically in this post, of “doing things in a horrible manner”.

You have NEVER sat of the sidelines to watch me coach. You have never sat in a room with me and my players to listen to what we discuss. You have never sat down to actually discuss how I see that the game should be coached, and played. If you’ve ever read one thing I’ve written, it is in near mirror image to what you’ve written, on strictly technical terms. We agree on most, and I’ve yet to read one salient, strong point of yours that makes me think, “Wow, this guy is onto something unique”. You aren’t.

What I don’t do, though, is tear down good people around me that I know are doing the best inside the constraints in which they work. You are a very, very bitter man, it’s obvious. Somebody, or some group, in your immediate circle has somehow hurt you, or disrespected you, or ignored you. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but you’re obviously very bitter at other coaches- good or bad, doesn’t matter to you. I do agree, there are more “bad” coaches around us, but that speaks more to the immaturity of Canada as a soccer culture. We don’t have enough guys that have played at a reasonably high level coming back to coach. It’s getting better, but it takes time. Meanwhile, yes, you get well meaning but clueless parents with no footballing background filling the gap. Is that their fault? No. It’s the fault of an immature system combined with being the fastest growing recreational sport in Canada. There is an intelligence gap to be sure. That being said, I’m not going to start tearing down the good people, good coaches, in the system trying to do their part to improve their small world. Again, more people that you have never met, have never sat down to discuss the game with, and have never witnessed coach.

The most hilarious part is your continuously going back to my cute little “get an ice cream for a nutmeg”, etc. type thing I did for 8 year old girls playing house and literally just having started kicking a ball, and yes, still reward them for good performances and using technical and tactical skills taught in training (instead of just kicking the ball aimlessly) when in your very first post in this tread you were complaining about the lack of incentives. Like, WTF? Do you actually read what you write? Do you know you are literally a hypocrite? Not one thing I’ve ever written suggests that I coach the players to play kick & run. Yet you continue to state I- and many good coaches at the grassroots like me- am “doing it horribly”.

Next, you seem to love to focus on the failures of the National team without actually dialoguing what really needs to be done. Do you honestly think you are the first genius at TTP to point out that the National Team has failed, and why? Really? What gets me is that you appear to have come to Canada for a reason. I suspect you are now a Canadian Citizen, yes? So why then would you come to a WC Qualifying Match and cheer for another country to beat Canada? A Country that is not even of your birthsoil? I suspect like many immigrant Canadians, the truth is you are actually conveniently Canadian; Canadian for all the great things this great country provides those who come here seeking a better life, and better opportunities for themselves and their family, but when it comes to matters of the heart like footballing allegiance, you conveniently kick you new home out (the one that has giving you everything on a silver platter), and make room for, well, anyone else, just to prove a point. That makes no sense. I love this country and would never cheer against Canada, no matter what.

Oh, and let me remind you that it appears the height of your coaching excellence extends to VMSL Div. 2. Honestly, congrats, but I don’t see why you should be placing yourself on a higher pedestal than those around us for being the manager of a reasonably good team in a reasonably good amateur men’s soccer league. That makes you exactly average, so far as coaching abilities, around here. Really, nothing special.

All that said, sure, maybe, if I’m lucky, I can tell you this all to your face. I’m sure I put myself at risk of being sued for something, seems the way you like to fight your battles, threatening to sue people for either telling truths, or well educated opinions. For example, your behavior on TTP leads me to believe you are an unintelligent, clueless, disrespectful asshole that I’m ashamed Canada allowed to be a citizen.

 

[Soccer Coach]

@Dude
I understand that when you get upset or annoyed you tend rely on Ad hominem attacks. In case, you are not familiar:r argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

I politely request that you refrain from stating prejudicial comments when it comes to citizenship.

Yes, you are correct. I do experience bitterness and frustration. A country that I dearly love respect has been completely misguided when it comes to a sport that I care. I would even tend to argue that I love this country more than you do and that I am hold the values that our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms holds more than you. Hence, I am more Canadian than you.

You seem to be having problems with other people having freedom of expression and thought.

Let me summarize the arguments below. Please concentrate on the arguments and no the person.

 

[Soccer Coach]

1) Argument: The Canadian National team of the past were significantly better than the present one. The evidence usually is centered around the qualification of the National Team to the World Cup of 1986 and the almost qualification to the World Cup of 1994.

I am challenging this conceptions on two grounds. The Canadian National Team of 1986, 1990, 1994 played equally poorly than the teams of 2010 and 2014. However, there are two factors that helped the teams of the past.

I. Mexico has the host of 1996, and the United States the host of 1994. This gave a huge advantage to the Canadian teams. The results show that Canada suffers with Mexico and the United States. Essentially 6 points lost as those two team exploit the limitations of the Canadian teams. Other Concacaf teams can hold Mexico to a draw or sometimes bet them. Without them our Canadian team appears stronger and has less competition.

Imagine that Mexico is not in our group. Canada would be leading this group.

II. The Social and Political problems of Central American countries during the 1982-1994 period. All Central American countries were engaged in major civil wars or border wars. Every fabric of their societies was affected by the economic and political turmoil including soccer. Their national teams became considerable weaker, bu they started to recover after 1996 when peace and relative prosperity returned to the area.

III. Canada was never close to the 1994 Qualification. Australia was only the first play off. There was a second play off with Commebol which included Argentina (World Cup runners up) and Maradona. You have to be realistic and be aware of the likely outcome of such match.


The purpose of this post is to question the notion that we had a "Golden Generation" who was better than the current one. They were equally poor. They simple got lucky.

 

[Dude]

@soccercoach:

• Correction, I have attacked you based on the available evidence. It is an Evidentiary Attack. To that you may claim, “But what about the evidentiary burden? I object, your honor! This man has failed in his Burden of Proof!”. To that end, I will humbly point out that you are WRONG. The only evidence available here is what has been written on TTP by a persona going by the name “Soccer Coach”. This persona has presented plenty of evidence to show he’s a hypocite, unintelligent (because an intelligent person would actually be able to recognize when others have been attempting to make the same point as he, for longer, on the same forum), and actually quite the asshole (the last point is opinion based on evidence, kinda the same).

• My comments aren’t prejudicial at all. If anything, they are post-judicial. I have judged you- the TTP Soccer Coach Persona- to be a hypocrite and unintelligent based on your written comments. No more, no less. I have never even met you in person, so my opinion of whoever you are in real life does not count here, because I’ve never met you. I’ve only read comments made from one persona that calls himself Soccer Coach. With regards to you being Conveniently Canadian, this is a term I made up myself, to describe people that gain Canadian citizenship through immigration to this country that- on evidence- only appear to be here for the convenience of the great things that the country provides, but when it comes to cheering for the country in sports, they cheer against it. This tells me that you are, therefore, Conveniently Canadian. Only Canadian when it suits you. Most of us (though, not all of us, there are surely many Canadian Born Conveniently Canadian people, too) can’t bear to cheer against Canada, no matter how bad our team may be.

• “I would even tend to argue that I love this country more than you do and that I am hold the values that our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms holds more than you. Hence, I am more Canadian than you.”- Except that your written word shows evidence to the contrary. Strange.

• “You seem to be having problems with other people having freedom of expression and thought.”- Nope. You seem to have an issue with people calling you out for being a hypocrite and Conveniently Canadian, though.

Soccer Coach: you find yourself trying to fit into a community, and failing miserably. In any community, if you are behaving poorly, people will tell you. I’ve done such here before, people have told me, and in time, we move on. At this moment in time, I find it strange that the Persona “Soccer Coach” keeps trying to come back to the community even after he himself has stated he’s leaving it. Very strange. Last piece of advice: if you don’t want to be called an asshole, or a cnut, or a twat, or a hypocite, don’t write things to cause other posters to call you things like an asshole, or a cnut, or a twat, or a hypocite. Oh, and another tip: don’t keep going back to your threat of litigation card, either directly implied, or indirectly. It shows your insecurities, and really, tells us that you may actually be a cnut. Don’t be a cnut.

 

[Soccer Coach]

@soccercoach:

• Correction, I have attacked you based on the available evidence. It is an Evidentiary Attack. To that you may claim, “But what about the evidentiary burden? I object, your honor! This man has failed in his Burden of Proof!”. To that end, I will humbly point out that you are WRONG. The only evidence available here is what has been written on TTP by a persona going by the name “Soccer Coach”. This persona has presented plenty of evidence to show he’s a hypocite, unintelligent (because an intelligent person would actually be able to recognize when others have been attempting to make the same point as he, for longer, on the same forum), and actually quite the asshole (the last point is opinion based on evidence, kinda the same).

• My comments aren’t prejudicial at all. If anything, they are post-judicial. I have judged you- the TTP Soccer Coach Persona- to be a hypocrite and unintelligent based on your written comments. No more, no less. I have never even met you in person, so my opinion of whoever you are in real life does not count here, because I’ve never met you. I’ve only read comments made from one persona that calls himself Soccer Coach. With regards to you being Conveniently Canadian, this is a term I made up myself, to describe people that gain Canadian citizenship through immigration to this country that- on evidence- only appear to be here for the convenience of the great things that the country provides, but when it comes to cheering for the country in sports, they cheer against it. This tells me that you are, therefore, Conveniently Canadian. Only Canadian when it suits you. Most of us (though, not all of us, there are surely many Canadian Born Conveniently Canadian people, too) can’t bear to cheer against Canada, no matter how bad our team may be.

• “I would even tend to argue that I love this country more than you do and that I am hold the values that our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms holds more than you. Hence, I am more Canadian than you.”- Except that your written word shows evidence to the contrary. Strange.

• “You seem to be having problems with other people having freedom of expression and thought.”- Nope. You seem to have an issue with people calling you out for being a hypocrite and Conveniently Canadian, though.

Soccer Coach: you find yourself trying to fit into a community, and failing miserably. In any community, if you are behaving poorly, people will tell you. I’ve done such here before, people have told me, and in time, we move on. At this moment in time, I find it strange that the Persona “Soccer Coach” keeps trying to come back to the community even after he himself has stated he’s leaving it. Very strange. Last piece of advice: if you don’t want to be called an asshole, or a cnut, or a twat, or a hypocite, don’t write things to cause other posters to call you things like an asshole, or a cnut, or a twat, or a hypocite. Oh, and another tip: don’t keep going back to your threat of litigation card, either directly implied, or indirectly. It shows your insecurities, and really, tells us that you may actually be a cnut. Don’t be a cnut.

whao! Not a single word has to do with the argument or evidence regarding the performance of the National Team. Please stay focused. Try to concentrate on the arguments about the current and past performance of the National Team. I am not trying to fit in and simple trying to discuss about the conceptions about our current/past National team.

 

[Dude]

No, once again, the evidence presented tells me that, despite portraying many intellectual qualities, you (the persona called "Soccer Coach") is actually as dumb as a bag of hammers. Truly.
That reply was in reply to this:

@Dude
I understand that when you get upset or annoyed you tend rely on Ad hominem attacks. In case, you are not familiar:r argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

I politely request that you refrain from stating prejudicial comments when it comes to citizenship.

Yes, you are correct. I do experience bitterness and frustration. A country that I dearly love respect has been completely misguided when it comes to a sport that I care. I would even tend to argue that I love this country more than you do and that I am hold the values that our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms holds more than you. Hence, I am more Canadian than you.

You seem to be having problems with other people having freedom of expression and thought.

Let me summarize the arguments below. Please concentrate on the arguments and no the person.

Whew...this really is exhausting. Please try and follow the bouncing ball.

 

[Dude]

1) Argument: The Canadian National team of the past were significantly better than the present one. The evidence usually is centered around the qualification of the National Team to the World Cup of 1986 and the almost qualification to the World Cup of 1994.

I am challenging this conceptions on two grounds. The Canadian National Team of 1986, 1990, 1994 played equally poorly than the teams of 2010 and 2014. However, there are two factors that helped the teams of the past.

I. Mexico has the host of 1996, and the United States the host of 1994. This gave a huge advantage to the Canadian teams. The results show that Canada suffers with Mexico and the United States. Essentially 6 points lost as those two team exploit the limitations of the Canadian teams. Other Concacaf teams can hold Mexico to a draw or sometimes bet them. Without them our Canadian team appears stronger and has less competition.

Imagine that Mexico is not in our group. Canada would be leading this group.

II. The Social and Political problems of Central American countries during the 1982-1994 period. All Central American countries were engaged in major civil wars or border wars. Every fabric of their societies was affected by the economic and political turmoil including soccer. Their national teams became considerable weaker, bu they started to recover after 1996 when peace and relative prosperity returned to the area.

III. Canada was never close to the 1994 Qualification. Australia was only the first play off. There was a second play off with Commebol which included Argentina (World Cup runners up) and Maradona. You have to be realistic and be aware of the likely outcome of such match.


The purpose of this post is to question the notion that we had a "Golden Generation" who was better than the current one. They were equally poor. They simple got lucky.

To this...

Imagine if Mexico was not in our group...that'd be fantastic, because Mexico has always dominated our group. Has always been the front runner, powerhouse. So, that'd be great.

I'd have to go back and scour the lead-up to '86, but I believe that Canada was very much on par with the US in terms of relative competitive attributes, and well ahead of the rest of the group. This is relevant.

The same was not quite true in the '94 lead-up, in that Canada had fallen a step behind the US, but was still well ahead of the rest of the group. From '94 till recently, Canada has fallen drastically behind. Political strife is simply part of the equation. Politics helped the US take a leap forward, and peace helped many other nations focus on their national team plans, and I'd argue many helped by strong domestic leagues. So, you are not wrong...in fact, it helps prove out the point, that yes, Canada fell behind. In the lead-up to '94, we had a strong domestic league. The tables have turned. Canada has gone backwards in domestic development, while other nations have gone forward. A big part of this was the abolishment of the CSL.

In one of your earliest posts, you pointed out the need for a strong domestic league. Why has your stance all of a sudden changed on this? Is it your need to try and be different that drives you, no, compels you to disagree with anything written here as a matter of principal? Is it your bitterness towards those around you that have had more local coaching success than you in teaching a European style? A style that you so obviously abhor? What compels you to discredit strong evidence as to why Canada has failed so miserably, no matter who presents it, unless it is you (or Base, but I think you are one in the same...so please tell yourself to tell him to come back, we like him)?

 

[Dude]

Since you are a stickler for evidence...

I will put my two cents, and will be specific. I hope that people understand that this is with the best intentions and made to reflect people. I do it because I genuinely care about soccer here and I hope that it turns for the best.
.......
Hence, this is why I think that having semi-professional or professional leagues is a necessary step. It will create direct competition. If you do not produce players you are out of your job. We do not need to waste time trying to convince people that they are not doing things in a optimal way (to produce good players). They are doing things right for other objectives.

I picked one representative in each sector to make a clear point. I know Trece, and he does well for his task, and I admire what he does.



If you know people in the Canadian soccer development system, try to make the reflect on what they are doing.Ask them to see the Mexico-Canada games and encourage them to reflect. What is my role in this disaster?

 

[Dude]

"I do it because I genuinely care about soccer here and I hope that it turns for the best."- but you won't support Canada's players. Interesting. Some may even say convenient.

 

[akslop]

@Soccer Coach just got served?

 

[Soccer Coach]

To this...

Imagine if Mexico was not in our group...that'd be fantastic, because Mexico has always dominated our group. Has always been the front runner, powerhouse. So, that'd be great.

I'd have to go back and scour the lead-up to '86, but I believe that Canada was very much on par with the US in terms of relative competitive attributes, and well ahead of the rest of the group. This is relevant.

The same was not quite true in the '94 lead-up, in that Canada had fallen a step behind the US, but was still well ahead of the rest of the group. From '94 till recently, Canada has fallen drastically behind. Political strife is simply part of the equation. Politics helped the US take a leap forward, and peace helped many other nations focus on their national team plans, and I'd argue many helped by strong domestic leagues. So, you are not wrong...in fact, it helps prove out the point, that yes, Canada fell behind. In the lead-up to '94, we had a strong domestic league. The tables have turned. Canada has gone backwards in domestic development, while other nations have gone forward. A big part of this was the abolishment of the CSL.

In one of your earliest posts, you pointed out the need for a strong domestic league. Why has your stance all of a sudden changed on this? Is it your need to try and be different that drives you, no, compels you to disagree with anything written here as a matter of principal? Is it your bitterness towards those around you that have had more local coaching success than you in teaching a European style? A style that you so obviously abhor? What compels you to discredit strong evidence as to why Canada has failed so miserably, no matter who presents it, unless it is you (or Base, but I think you are one in the same...so please tell yourself to tell him to come back, we like him)?

This post is a bit better, but you are still not entirely focussing on the argument. Before I discuss, the argument, just to let you know, Spain, Italy, Romania, former Yugoslavia countries, and Netherlands are part of the European continent. You might want to review geography.

I do like very much the soccer that is played on those places. Good technique with the ball, intelligent and sophisticated tactics and strategy.

a) We seem to agree that the absence of Mexico in the qualification process to the 1986 World Cup helped Canada. Our team almost always loses to Mexico, so usually those 6 points are gone.

b) We also seem to agree that civil wars of Central America helped Canada in the 1986 World Cup qualification. Some of you might not be aware, but during those times some players had to pay for their own uniforms, bring their own balls or even pay for their own airfares as national federations were not able to provide this. Many games were suspended or moved because of the conflict. Once the conflicts were over, and they returned to their original levels they simply eliminated Canada, same as they did before 1986.

In summary, the World Cup 1986 qualification is less on merit and more the absence of Mexico and the other teams having deep unusual problems.

The Canadian Soccer League that operated between 1987 and 1992. Here is where you need to revise your thoughts. In the 1990 Qualification process Mexico was banned, and Canada did not make to the the final round.

How is possible that a team that is supposed to be so good with respect to the rest does not make even into the final 5? even without Mexico which is banned.
http://192.168.0.102/admin/index.php

Please note that during this qualification Canada had a fully operational professional soccer league. However, it id not help much, because the league did not change the thinking and conceptualization of the game. I will expand later, but for now I let you process this information. I help help you understand the argument that I am proposing.

The league in itself will not help. Hopefully, a local league will help to change the real obstacle, which is the way people play, teach and conceptualize the game. This is the root of the problem.

This is where you and everyone else comes into have an active part. When we have real competition (if the league is set up with real competition), someone above you will educate you and explain to you in no uncertain terms that giving ice cream to a player for doing a move in the field is not the way to teach the game whether is elite or recreational. Until then, you will people above you who will applaud or condone what you are doing.

 

[Dude]

You are truly an idiot. Giving away ice cream really has nothing to do with what I coach. Nothing at all. In fact, it's a 3 x / year excursion as a team to Dairy Queen. Why don't YOU try to explain to me why YOU think it's a bad idea, YOU, the one who CONDONES and even URGES giving incentives to both players and coaches?

See, it's kind of like "team building" (ever hear of that?). The girls pull a fast one on Coach Dude by reminding them that I owe them ice cream for whatever. I take them. They sit down for an hour, maybe eat it, maybe not, and giggle away at things little girls giggle away at. They have FUN, and they will always associate that fun as part of being on a soccer team. They come back for that feeling, not for the ice cream.

You know that, right?

And, remember, we are talking about kids here. Little girls. Small, tiny little humans that don't care about how Canada soccer has messed up the National team. They care about hair, dolls, make-up, and now boys. And they care about hanging around together and having a good time playing together.

Point being, ice cream has literally nothing to do with the coaching.

So, while you focus on ice cream, I'm trying to get certain points through your thick skull...but for some reason, you feel my rewarding little girls with a visit to Dairy Queen somehow takes away from what I'm actually teaching them in training. Are you completely fcuked?

The rest of it, whatever.

You say we need to adjust our teaching technically. I agree. Yet somehow, you don't think I get it. Fine.
You say we need a professional league. We agree. Yet again, somehow, you don't think I get it. Fine.
I feel Canada has taken a big step back since 1993. You agree. I failed to mention 1990, but it only emphasises the same point. Yet you want to continue to debate, even though Canada came very close in 1993/4. Whatever. Point being, Canada has take huge leaps backwards since the loss of the CSL. again, you can't seem to agree that we're arguing the same exact point.
You disagree with a coach taking his youth players for ice cream as a little reward system for showing they've grasped a concept and executed it, but won't explain why. Fine. I see no harm in it, so if you can't explain it, then, well...it becomes a moot point, doesn't it?

I mean, seriously...are you going to try and tell me that not one coach of ANY of these famed footballing Nations you listed, including Mexico, has ever treated his youth players to ice cream? And, if there were, then those are bad coaches, teaching the wrong things and concepts to players? Really? This is important, because that is what you are doing right now...your who basis of credibility hinges on this ice cream issue.

"The league in itself will not help. Hopefully, a local league will help to change the real obstacle, which is the way people play, teach and conceptualize the game. This is the root of the problem."- You may be right. But it's a chicken and egg scenario...without that league, it's all a non-starter anyhow. The league is critical, changing the way we teach the game, less critical, but still obviously important. Without that league, Canada forever will remain on the outside looking in.

Now, seriously, fcuk right off.

 

[Dude]

You know @Soccer Coach, every time I go South now- South or Central America- I bring a bag of deflated soccer balls, a pump, and we give them away. I've done this in Peru, Costa Rica, Mexico. I'm likely heading to Bolivia for some mountain biking this fall, and despite you really making me like South Americans a lot less, I will do it then, too.

When I give the balls away, they are hotly coveted, and you can see the joy on the kids faces. Boys and little girls. Mostly boys, but you can tell when a little girl is a bit too shy, and their faces light up anyways when you hand them a ball. I think of my daughter, who's always been around it and never been denied the opportunity because she's female (something Canada HAS done well in, getting girls involved in the game). It's amazing to see, they are so happy. Small little things that we take for granted here. And I know I'm not the only guy on TTP that does this, a lot of guys do. It's a way we can simply give a bit of joy in a way we know how, and can understand. So...all your BS about how poor it is, and how we don't get it, that is insulting, too. Very insulting. Most of us very much do "get it". But it's not our fault we were born into a politically stable and strong nation. And it's not our fault we fell in love with this game and love it more than our national game.

But, we make the best of it. We are doing the best we can in our own way. Just because you came from a footballing nations does not mean you love this game more than I do, or any of the rest of us. That's where you seem to have a hard time grasping the obvious.

You are not the first outsider to come to Canada and piss all over us as a soccer nation. We do get it. But we also get sick of it. FFS, why did you come here, anyways? All those reasons, which I suspect have everything to do with opportunity for yourself and family, are reasons why you SHOULD support our team when they are out there, not stand on your perch talking down to a bunch of peasants. Canada took you in, the least you can do is support it's men's program, as shitty as it is right now. But, I understand, it's not convenient for you to do so.

Actually, I don't get it. I just, simply, could never NOT support Canada. No matter how shitty.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Dude,


We should make this the thread of the ice cream and the national team.
Let me summarize one more time to re-cap:

Qualification for World Cups of 1970,1974,1978, 1982 are done through the Concacaf Championship format. Canada is never close to qualify in those.

a) 1986: Canada qualifies. Mexico does not compete, Central America is in the middle of civil wars.
b) 1990: Canada does not make to final stage and Mexico is banned. Thus, Canada is ranked 7th or even lower in the region. The Canadian Soccer League is in full operations. Central America on the onset of civil wars.
c) 1994: Canada makes it to the final stage, but fails in the first consolation round. USA is absent and Mexico qualifies. Canada is not really close for qualification to the World Cup (Mexico defeats them well; and surely Canada has no hope of defeating Argentina and Maradona. Canadian Leauge has already disbanded. Civil wars start to come to an end.
d) 1998: Canada finishes 6th. Essentially same as 1990 when there was a Canadian League. Central America returns to peace and both Mexico and USA compete as usual.
e) 2002: Canada finishes below 6th.
f) 2006: Canada finishes below 6h and below 10th.
g) 2010: Canada finishes below 6th and below 10th.

Thus, you can see that the World Cup of 1986 is an oddity for Canada. It is not that we were playing better. The competition simple weakened on that particular qualification process. The league really did not help at all for the 1990 qualification process. It is a myth that Canada was moving forward and then went backwards.

This is the whole point, and I hope people see it. There was not a golden era of Canada and the professional league in Canada did not advance Canada. The team qualified by fluke in 1986, then a league is created but the it DOES NOT HELP for the qualification of 1990. Then there is the myth that we were close to 1994. Not even a chance. It is a myth what people are trying to tell the new generations.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Before, I get into the ice cream, subject. Dude. Do not get angry. it is not personal. I want Canada to do well. This is why I take the time to write these things. So people are not sold bullshit, about how things were better in the past.

 

[Dude]

Tell me, how long do you think it takes for a Domestic league to get off the ground before it becomes competitively relevant?

Prior to 1986, Canadians playing Domestically were in the NASL, arguably the best league ever in North America- quality of football wise. A lot of Canadians playing domestically at a high professional level against BETTER players from all over the world. Sorry, that was our best team. For a good reason.

Most would say better the NASL was better than the MLS today. But, the MLS is a Domestic league made by Americans, built for Americans, and serves a purpose now. For Americans.

CSL comes in ~1986 after implosion of the NASL. Very much a watered down league to the NASL, so one should expect a significant drop in quality. It did build itself up, so the fact that we dropped so far off between '86 and '90 should be no surprise. So, the fact that there was such a big improvement that it actually served it's purpose- to get Canada back to relevance in COCACAFF.

1993...correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe CONCACAFF only qualified 2 nations then, correct? Yes, correct. We fell short of...Mexico. In today's environment, 3 teams qualifying, we'd have been in.

You argue it's never changed with or without a good domestic league, but are failing to really support the notion. But, the presence of a good domestic league is proven out with both of Canada's only two strong showings. IN 1986, you argue it was a fluke...so where was the US? Terrible is where. They have become a power through political will, nothing else. Mexico hosted, Canada wins the CONCACAFF, Honduras second. You argue it was a fluke, fine. I disagree. Maybe the truth is it was a combo, because there is no doubt that was a much better team, and it was due to the number of Canadians playing in the NASL.

You can keep arguing your points, and we can keep arguing ours. We are going in circles, in the end, it doesn't matter, as in it is past. But...the two good results came on the backs of strong domestic leagues. Plain and simple. Without that, we're doomed going forward.

 

[cascadesoccer]

We settle this one way, and one way only.

 

[Dude]

Before, I get into the ice cream, subject. Dude. Do not get angry. it is not personal. I want Canada to do well. This is why I take the time to write these things. So people are not sold bullshit, about how things were better in the past.

Actually, it is personal when you basically state that because I take my girls out for Dairy Queen I am somehow a bad coach. Judge me on my actual coaching and tactics, fine, but yeah, you are way off the marker, and frankly, I'd like for you to piss off now. You are winding me up to no end, and it's to the point where I honestly think you are a fcuking crackpot.

Yes, that's an insult.

 

[Regs]

Call him a convenient cnut, he'll like that I'm sure.