Bert's suspension

[Dude]

Hos: like you, I don't mind calling it like it is. I'm not swept up in the frenzy, in fact, if you read WAY back in the other thread, I was the first one, early in the morning, to say "he should get the season, and deserves playoffs too". That was at about 6 or 6:30 Tuesday morning.

Not once have I screamed "Broken Neck", or any of that.

The NHL has been too soft for too long on these types of incidents. This is a ballsy suspension, given he's a star, and not really expendable to the league or team.

Agree on Fat Pratt: way over the top. Same w/ McGooch, stating that the team may never recover from this, blah, blah, blah. They'll recover.

You do make a good point about the playoffs...perhaps it would have made more sense to put a set number of games on him. 20, perhaps? That's about one round, maybe 1.5 rounds...

But, whatever. I'm not going to bitch about the suspension just because I'm a Nucks fan and desperately want them to win.

 

[Dude]

Bronco: I think there are a ton of people seeing this through Orca colored lenses. I'm not. In any of those situations, I'd view them equally to this. I care more about this, because the twat could cost us a Cup, but at least I'll speak my mind on it despite my loyalties.

You're correct, though...people get skewed one way or another just because he's a hometown player, and because of his status.

 

[trece verde]

From CKWX this morning....

"Gatorade is reviewing its sponsorship deal with Bert...."



stew

 

[knvb]

Heavy

I think as a more neutral Canuck fan I'd say that it's a bit on the heavy side when compared to other incidents similar. Like I posted earlier the 13 games and perhaps the first series (say 7 games) would have been just, but they should have put, I feel, a solid number to it not left it open ended like Dude on Friday night. Rick Ball asked a good question (first one ever) this morning " what if this was Game 32 and not 69? Does he get 'the rest of the season and the Play-off's?' "

$250,000 fine to the 'team' (Crawford) anyone disagree with this? Two thoughts; it's like blaming the parents if your kid breaks a window or Crawford should have kept his dog on a leash.

 

[peter]

Bert's Suspension and Apology

I think he got (at least) what he deserved.

He reminded me of a little kid during his apology. One thing that troubled me as well was his lack of taking responsibility. Although he said he was sorry, he said he was sorry for:

"...what transpired..."
"...what happened..." (twice he said that)

I might be splitting hairs here but he never said (as DJones said earlier):

"I'm sorry for what I did" or "the damage that I caused". His comments reflect a degree of being involved in a happenstance.

And I don't know him personally but I take exception to his following claims:

"...I'm not a mean-spirited person..."
"...I don't play the game that way..."

I think he is mean-spirited and he does play the game that way. That's exactly what makes him an effective hockey player (sometimes).

 

[Regs]

As they've been saying, leaving the "open-endedness" part in allows them to tack on a few if the Nucks get swept 4 straight in the first round in the playoffs, if they even make the playoffs now (don't laugh, the teams behind them are not that far behind).

Was it excessive? Yeah, I think so.

Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[lean]

The reason that the suspension is open-ended is to apease the ameriacan audience and for Bettman to elevate himself over the game. He wants to be all powerful and have Bert kiss his arse to get back in the game next year.

The rest of the season and the playoffs is the right decision as it is a clear message that the NHL wants to show they will be more strict moving forward. The prescedent is now set and will continue to be more severe as time goes on. I agree with the team being fined but I would have like to have heard the NHL come down on both teams for their respective roles in this event.

Lean

PS Congrats Jinky on the Family

 

[Regs]

Does anyone here know or have heard if Marchment is being suspended (from the incident Sensei mentioned last night)?

~Regs.

 

[Sandman]

The league stated in their conference call that the suspension was also based on the injury to Steve Moore? When have they ever done that before? Did Colin Campbell get a medical report on the injury?If he did, he would realize that there have been far worse injuries by the result of other acts in the NHL. ie; Draper, Kariya, Beukeboom

i've lost total respect for Gary Mason......he writes on E2...'Steve Moore Could Have Died".............A lot of things "COULD" have happened, and a lot of things "COULD" happen when there are phyiscal confrontations, like there are in the game hockey.

 

[sensei_hanson]

The NHL has opened a pandoras box and set a very dodgy precedent here with the direct association with suspension length and the injury of the victim. This is yet another fantastic way for NHL brass to throw the game further down the toilet.

Based on these quotes by Campbell:

"Mr. Bertuzzi will be required to meet with Commissioner Bettman prior to the start of training camp for the 2004-05 season, at which point Mr. Bertuzzi's eligibility will be reviewed in light of all the available facts at that time, including Mr. Moore's physical status and the progression of his recovery."

and

"In our opinion, because of the act, because of the injury to the player, because of a number of factors and criteria, we felt that his right to perform the rest of the season, he had to give that up and we had to take that away from him."

the NHL has essentially said that these bullshit 'tit-fot-tat' arguments that the minions throw into sports talk radio shows are now legit claims. Good fcuking grief. MEMO TO NHL BRASS: Paul Kariya missed eight months with post-concussion syndrome after the Gary Suter cross-check. Suter received a four-game suspension for his actions. If Campbell is so bloody concerned about the injuries and recoveries of players and the impending suspensions the aggressors should recieve based on them, then Bryan Marchment should have the fcuking book thrown at him for breaking Ritchie's collarbone and knocking him out for six weeks. Where is the difference here?

I have news for a lot of people who claim this suspension is fair and the NHL has done a good job in handing down this sentence. Bronco is on the right track. They have made a huge mess of this situation. Todd Bertuzzi will not be the last NHL player to go vigilante style on the ice. Just like Marty McSorley wasn't the last player to whip his stick at the head of another player.

The NHL is the only professional sport where players are given the leeway to police themselves through semi-sanctioned fighting as a part of the sport. If you throw a punch in any other professional sport/league, you are tossed from the game. So the NHL attempting to "modify" an unwritten code of conduct by unequally penalizing the instigator of a fight throws the entire concept of self-policing out of whack.

What Bertuzzi did was wrong, juvenille and is not a proper method of players policing themselves on the ice. It was a brutally savage punch that went horribly wrong. But to hand him a suspension which could last up to 41 games is idiotic. If this is the new precedent the NHL wants to set, you're going to see guys missing hundreds-to-thousands of man games due to suspensions.

 

[knvb]

Whole other level...

Sensei, I want you to do me a favor. Stop fcuking around on TTP (sorry Regs) March your arse down to the Province head quarters kick Mason etc. straight in the beans and take their jobs from them! Now.

 

[Rangerforever]

Too harsh

The man is paying a price for the consequence of his actions, not because of his actions.
shite like this happens all the time.
Not that I approve of it.

20 games and a heavy fine - Done.
The whole year?
Fcuk off.....

I do agree with the fine to the club.
They've been bitching about the hit on Nazzy for too long and Moore was a marked man prior to, making it premeditated.
That's what's wrong here.
That's the wrong fcuking message to send out to kids especially.
I know, an eye for an eye, but get over it man and if you're still wound up, don't make it a public vendetta.
As someone said here earlier, the media and the league had no problem with the build up did they?
That's when Campbell and Bettman should have warned the organization to shut the fcuk up.
Now look what's happened because they all got their nickers in a twist.
Fcuking tragic really.
I agree don't blame the parent for kid's actions but my gut tells me the whole organization wanted to send a message.

Did you see the obvious lack of calls going to the Canucks last night?
Did you see how Crawford & Co. kept their mouths shut all night?
A little late Gary and Colin on the knuckle rapping.

Punish the Canucks - don't punish Bert to this extreme.
IMO he's being made a scapegoat on a larger scale of issues that have to be dealt with at the executive level on an ongoing basis, not this isolated circumstance.

Bettman and Campbell can lick me today,

RF

 

[sensei_hanson]

RF,

The problem with the premeditation and marked man arguments is that the Canucks did not invent such acts. This is part of the fabric woven into the NHL. When Ken Hitchckoc says that somebody is going to make Havlat "eat his lunch", he's not talking about Handzus taking him out to Pizza Pizza for a slice.

Retalitory fighting is legal in the NHL. The Ottawa-Philly game was a pretty good example of that. Not a single combatant in that game suffered a lingering suspension from the fisticuffs that ensued. Yet anybody who had a clue knew the whole incident stemmed from Havlat hitting Recchi in the face with his stick. And what, exactly, did the NHL do to reprimand either of the clubs involved here? I didn't see any fines totalling a quarter mill being handed down. And the only reason Havlat didn't get beaten to a bloody pulp was due to the fact he was either in the penalty box or hiding at the end of the player's bench.

If what Burke said is true, that he and Crawford were briefed for all of 13 minutes on things they could have done to diffuse the situation, then the fine is completely overboard and just another example of the NHL buckling like a cheap belt at the public backlash the incident received. For shame.

 

[Regs]

Has Ottawa and Philly had their fines announced yet for not "doing more" in preventing what happened last Friday?

Were not "threats" made before that game?

Sensei is spot on with the Pandora's box comment, the league has just made this situation worse. Deal with the player but to justify a team fine of that magnitude w/o stating what the team could have done more to prevent this is highly alarming and gives much weight to the school of thought that this had way more to do with pandering to Bettman and the image of the game through the US media.

BTW, Burke I thought did a great job in his news conference this morning.

Burke 100% at blame,

~Regs.

EDIT: need to type faster than Sensei in future.

 

[5bigtoes]

I'm gonna have to agree with sensei on this one...The NHL has fcuked up Royally with a capital "R".

Since Bettman has become The Commissioner of the NHL he has tried to change thing to make the league a better place for all to play, watch and enjoy. Essentially, he has fcuked it up with all his rule making and changes.

I'm old enough to remember when......Philly's broad street bully's, big bad Bruins, Maple leafs, Canadians, Blackhawks, Rangers, Detroit all handle things on the ice and yes fighting was a part of it.

Hockey Night in Canada was an institution in the late 60's and 70's. All the teams had goons and all the players could handle themselves. Orr could throw em, Hull could throw'em, shite I can't remember anyone from the good old days that couldn't fight. The game use to be simple, take a poke at the star player, ie: "The Great One" and get a good old asse kicking from Dave "the cement head" (I know thta's the 80's but even then the game was handled by the players). This is not to say the league didn't have it's fair share of issues back then, it did, the league handle them, the palyers had an unwritten code of ethics and the issue would fade away. Wayne Macky(?), Ted Green incident comes to mind, a tomahawk chop to the melon...there where issues, suspension, and lots to deal with but the players handled alot of what went on and the NHL, simply stayed monitored and kept things simple....

I think alot of todays issues are created by both the new NHL and the media. Technology being what it is and developing at a break neck speed, The "Bert" incident has been the hottest news topic all over the world for the past 72 hours....It's a sign of the times I guess???

As for the suspension...Bert needs to be acountable for his actions and he needs to suffer some kind of punishment, but the handling of this incident by the NHL, has been botched up, as said by Sensei...

 

[Rangerforever]

When Ken Hitchckoc says that somebody is going to make Havlat "eat his lunch", he's not talking about Handzus taking him out to Pizza Pizza for a slice.

Amongst the debate, he still can apply wit - Well done.

Too right Sansei.
What I'm getting at, and I think you agree, is yes, this is woven into the fabric of the game.
To make an example of the individual is wrong to this extent.

Which is why I agreed with the Club getting fined.
It's not just Todd Bertuzzi, it's everyone.
The Organization, the rest of the league, and the media should all be accountable here to some extent.
It's much more global than just this circumstance.

Question:
Has Grapes said anything about this?
I'd like to know what an icon like him has to say about it.

The game's gonna change,

RF

 

[Red Forever]

Ok I'll probably get ripped for this but it's my opinion. All these people saying it's too harsh and why should he miss the playoffs? You know what he deserves to and the Canucks deserve to miss him!
So Bert should just miss the rest of the season? Lets face it is just jockeying for playoff positioning. Then he should get to come back and try and help the Canucks make a run for the cup?? BULLSH*T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No he should miss the whole of the season playoffs included. The Canucks should miss him because the league warned them at the end of the 1st period that they better not do anything. If all these people want to blame Granato for playing Moore in a blowout, then the same people should blame Crawford for playing Nazzy's best mate in the same position. That is why the Canucks got a 250,000 fine!!

I'm fed up of everyone blaming everyone else but Bertuzzi!!!

 

[Regs]

Red Forever,

I think what you are seeing/reading is more about people pointing out the hypocracies running rampant around this incident.

The reason I think it is harsh is because of the additional "re-instatement" application needed as well as the league's inadequate explanation of it's reasoning in it's ruling(s).

It's the same with questioning Granato's "part" in all of this. His credibility in making the comments that he has is highly questionable given his own past actions and history.

~Regs.

 

[bertrum]

From JT the Brick NBC News

"Then the dirtiest moment in the history of the game occurred when Todd Bertuzzi of the Vancouver Canucks seriously injured Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche with a sucker punch Monday night."

Ever? Come on. I am sure Bobby Clark and Gordie Howe would have something to say about that.

 

[CDK]

I believe the suspension was fair...as long as it doesn't go into next season. I knew it would be at least what he got with all the circumstances surounding the incident. I don't feel sorry for Bertuzzi. How he is being persecuted in the media, no matter how wrong people may think the media is acting, he brought upon himself and only has himself to blame.