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Dude

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@Soccer Coach, go to WCFC and rescue their program. You know you want to. You know you want to be making that drive East instead of West after work.
 

Canucks4Ever

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I'll start, since no thread has started yet on this, and since this is a bit of a #noonecares flyer, only one thread for the whole league.

Tidbits from various ASSs and other threads to discuss:

~Biggest: North Delta and @LION return to the FVSL, but under the Coastal banner. Having been able to chat w/ the main man himself several times over the last couple of years, I can see why this came full circle, primary reason being that I don't think the infrastructure at ND supported a continuous stream of young talent to draw from and into his teams there. Coastal offers more facilities, more financial support, more player support in terms of a potential tie to the BCPL program. Totally get this. Why the move to the FVSL instead of staying VMSL (where I'd presume they'd have to stay in Div. 1, win their way back up)? My hypothesis on this is that I bet it has a lot to do w/ the same reasons Surrey United made the move back to the Valley- shifts in economics and soccer power bases / infrastructure. Cost of living in the Valley vs. City forcing young guys w/ families out this way, etc. So, I said this was inevitable 15 something years ago, and stated then a Provincial FVSL Champ was only a matter of time...well...still waiting. This last year was a banner year, but still no champ (runner up and 2 teams in the semis is nice, though.). Overall, I agree with the line of thinking in that there is a slow shift in power bases in the mainland, geographically at least, to support a stronger FVSL, and weakening VMSL.

Ok I'll bite.

We've kicked around these economic theories before about advantages in the FVSL, and they are all very solid (lower cost of living, better facilities due to urban planning, etc.), but I am not sure how ND's "move" (collapse?) back to the FVSL supports your theory about a shift in power to the FVSL. I struggle to see how a team that abandoned the league, then failed to gain traction in the perceived "better" league and is now returning to the original league that it left represents a coup for the FVSL. Nevermind whether or not the core of the team is anything remotely resembling the "powerhouse" team that left two seasons ago, doesn't the fact that they could not make the grade in the VMSL emphasize the point that there has not been any shift in power at all?

Again with the Surrey Utd. example, you are talking about a team that finished fifth in the FVSL and missed the Provincial Cup for the first time in how long? I don't think you can say that they would have been a powerhouse in the VMSL and were unable to compete in the "now stronger" FVSL. Do getting these well run (?) and established programs represent a solid foundation for the FVSL? Yes, no doubt. Do they represent a "shift in power", I think the results on the field speak for themselves.

Speaking of those results, you are absolutely correct, it is a massive year for the league as it attempts to build on it's success from last season. However, let's examine that success. Aldergrove and Langley were the top two teams in the FVSL. Aldergrove, the league champions, did not face a VMSL team until the Provincial semi-finals and, at that point, they played the VMSL's 7th placed team and lowest entrant, the newly promoted Westside FC. They were deadlocked at 1-1 until a late red card provided them the opportunity they needed to put that game to bed. Aldergrove were carrying the play in that one, but had been unable to make it count until the sending off. They then were well beaten 2-0 in the final against Inter. They had some chances, and it's certainly not like Inter played them off the park, but overall I can't recall a point where I really thought "wow, Aldergrove have the upper hand here." Then they completely unravelled at the end of the game. Langley got past VMSL Rovers in the quarters with a quality performance. It was a scrappy 1-0 though and we all know those can go either way. The same though can be said for their semi-final loss to Inter. True, you can only beat the teams that are in front of you and Langley and Aldy were 100% full value for that, but I find it hard to believe that the top 6 VMSL teams will all be drawn against each other and canabalize themselves on an annual basis. I'm genuinely not trying to knock down the performances of the FVSL teams last season, I am just trying to say that when you take a look at it from the perspective of it being evidence of a larger trend/pattern, I am not sure that the evidence is as concrete as it might originally seem.

This season the FVSL will have a 9 team Premier Division, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for a strengthening league. In fact, I would suggest that the optics of that point in the other direction entirely, especially when one of those 9 is the team that got "relegated" last season. Albeit, thanks to some politics they have merged with another Premier team, though it was the one that finished second bottom. This PoMo/SU merger you speak of does sound like the makings of a powerhouse and I would expect that group to challenge the top two/three in Aldy, Langley and Abby. The promoted Burnaby Firefighters also seem like a solid building block for the league. Add the returning Coastal/ND crew and the well establish Port Moody Gunners and you now have 6 or 7 pretty decent sides that should give each other some good competition and, hopefully, provide a good foundation for the future of the league. The problem is it peters out pretty quick after that, as evidenced by the fact that instead of back-filling the Premier vacancy with a Div. 1 team, the league will be playing with a bye week.

So, long story short, is ND returning to the FVSL a good news story for the league that should help make it stronger and more competitive? Absolutely. Is it the indication of an overall trend in the shift of soccer "power" towards the Valley? I just can't see it mate.

As I have said all along (and almost every time you post them) I totally back your reasons for why there should be a natural, gradual shift in power to the Valley/suburbs. I just can't find the tangible proof. I'm sure we could get into a whole other thread around why this should be happening but, as of now, is not (less single, "prime of their career" type guys living in the Valley? Proximity to University/Collegiate soccer programs? Population density/recruitment base? Guys moving to the suburbs to focus on family, etc. and playing soccer more casually?) but that could take up volumes! (Unlike this short discussion :) )


I hope that by seeing WCFC on the list for 2017 that there remains a pulse at the club to figure it out. Too bad, again. 4th place on the table in 2016/17 is nothing to sneeze at. Great facilities, very central location, big club...really, it's quite a desirable landing spot should some VMSL squad be looking to relocate and gain a full cradle-to-grave club to call home. Not saying at all that's on the horizon (that truly is a hypothetical scenario) or even a possibility, but seriously, it seems wrong to have the FVSL Prem w/ out a WCFC entry.

A VMSL team relocate to Maple Ridge??

Going after an early candidate for Piss Take of the Year right? Right?? ;)
 

dezza

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I still wanna know how someone gets elected VP of a club in June, and then by August has taken his team across the bridge to join a club in a rival district.
 

Dude

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And avoided promotion almost as much as the rangers ;)

Did they?

Did the Dynamo ever outright win their division? Weren't they usually in Div. 2?

R-Tee, yeah, have to agree it's very admirable that Chad has been able to keep that core together for so long, and yes, great group of lads. I think it goes back as far as 2003, when I think he moved them up from U21 to play as the reserves (Cat1) for Langley Premier. I know because I was doing a lot of double duty then, to get extra playing time. It was weird, because the team still had a lot of parents coming out to watch, and that group of parents was especially vocal on the sidelines, and many a game I found calls going against us because of the vocal nature of the parents. Chad was at a loss to try and control them, and finally I went to the sidelines in the middle of the game and asked them as politely as I could (which, as you can guess, wasn't polite at all, and involved an F-bomb), to shut their fcuking traps, because they were swaying the ref against us. The look of shock from the parents was hilarious. A player bitching them out? Whaaaaaaat?????

Anyhow, if I'm correct, this season will make 15 years the Dynamo have been in the FVSL. Must be ready for Masters!
 

R-Tee

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Did they?

Did the Dynamo ever outright win their division? Weren't they usually in Div. 2?

R-Tee, yeah, have to agree it's very admirable that Chad has been able to keep that core together for so long, and yes, great group of lads. I think it goes back as far as 2003, when I think he moved them up from U21 to play as the reserves (Cat1) for Langley Premier. I know because I was doing a lot of double duty then, to get extra playing time. It was weird, because the team still had a lot of parents coming out to watch, and that group of parents was especially vocal on the sidelines, and many a game I found calls going against us because of the vocal nature of the parents. Chad was at a loss to try and control them, and finally I went to the sidelines in the middle of the game and asked them as politely as I could (which, as you can guess, wasn't polite at all, and involved an F-bomb), to shut their fcuking traps, because they were swaying the ref against us. The look of shock from the parents was hilarious. A player bitching them out? Whaaaaaaat?????

Anyhow, if I'm correct, this season will make 15 years the Dynamo have been in the FVSL. Must be ready for Masters!

No, dynamo have never won div.1 or div.2.
I have been part of the dynamo for 12 years (minus a few seasons away). I would have to say that yes, it would be Chad that has been the glue that has kept this team together for so long. It really is a pleasure to play and drink with all the boys after all these years. Had a few heated moments over the years but glad I'm still around. I would welcome a move to masters but I think as a whole group probably we are getting closer.
Defintely remember a bitter rivalry back to those div.1 years when you were on kilby's squad
 

Dude

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No, dynamo have never won div.1 or div.2.
I have been part of the dynamo for 12 years (minus a few seasons away). I would have to say that yes, it would be Chad that has been the glue that has kept this team together for so long. It really is a pleasure to play and drink with all the boys after all these years. Had a few heated moments over the years but glad I'm still around. I would welcome a move to masters but I think as a whole group probably we are getting closer.
Defintely remember a bitter rivalry back to those div.1 years when you were on kilby's squad

LOL, I actually forgot about those. Those were in the last year of the LUFC Athletics, and I seem to remember the games meant a lot more to you guys than us. I remember they were both close, and I remember you guys coming out in the 1st 20 minutes like it was a track meet. Again, we were getting old, LOL, and the pace was tough to handle.

I also remember my last goal in open men's play came against you guys, one of the Roman's marking me, then half volleying over the other. I believe Blair played out, and Brian in goal, but memory is foggy. I think I was playing as a call-up for Robbie Keam's team then, after we (Athletics) moved onto Masters.
 

UnderYourSkin

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Correction, Surrey was 6th place with a mediocre 25 points. Shat the bed, nuff said.



Ok I'll bite.

We've kicked around these economic theories before about advantages in the FVSL, and they are all very solid (lower cost of living, better facilities due to urban planning, etc.), but I am not sure how ND's "move" (collapse?) back to the FVSL supports your theory about a shift in power to the FVSL. I struggle to see how a team that abandoned the league, then failed to gain traction in the perceived "better" league and is now returning to the original league that it left represents a coup for the FVSL. Nevermind whether or not the core of the team is anything remotely resembling the "powerhouse" team that left two seasons ago, doesn't the fact that they could not make the grade in the VMSL emphasize the point that there has not been any shift in power at all?

Again with the Surrey Utd. example, you are talking about a team that finished fifth in the FVSL and missed the Provincial Cup for the first time in how long? I don't think you can say that they would have been a powerhouse in the VMSL and were unable to compete in the "now stronger" FVSL. Do getting these well run (?) and established programs represent a solid foundation for the FVSL? Yes, no doubt. Do they represent a "shift in power", I think the results on the field speak for themselves.

Speaking of those results, you are absolutely correct, it is a massive year for the league as it attempts to build on it's success from last season. However, let's examine that success. Aldergrove and Langley were the top two teams in the FVSL. Aldergrove, the league champions, did not face a VMSL team until the Provincial semi-finals and, at that point, they played the VMSL's 7th placed team and lowest entrant, the newly promoted Westside FC. They were deadlocked at 1-1 until a late red card provided them the opportunity they needed to put that game to bed. Aldergrove were carrying the play in that one, but had been unable to make it count until the sending off. They then were well beaten 2-0 in the final against Inter. They had some chances, and it's certainly not like Inter played them off the park, but overall I can't recall a point where I really thought "wow, Aldergrove have the upper hand here." Then they completely unravelled at the end of the game. Langley got past VMSL Rovers in the quarters with a quality performance. It was a scrappy 1-0 though and we all know those can go either way. The same though can be said for their semi-final loss to Inter. True, you can only beat the teams that are in front of you and Langley and Aldy were 100% full value for that, but I find it hard to believe that the top 6 VMSL teams will all be drawn against each other and canabalize themselves on an annual basis. I'm genuinely not trying to knock down the performances of the FVSL teams last season, I am just trying to say that when you take a look at it from the perspective of it being evidence of a larger trend/pattern, I am not sure that the evidence is as concrete as it might originally seem.

This season the FVSL will have a 9 team Premier Division, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for a strengthening league. In fact, I would suggest that the optics of that point in the other direction entirely, especially when one of those 9 is the team that got "relegated" last season. Albeit, thanks to some politics they have merged with another Premier team, though it was the one that finished second bottom. This PoMo/SU merger you speak of does sound like the makings of a powerhouse and I would expect that group to challenge the top two/three in Aldy, Langley and Abby. The promoted Burnaby Firefighters also seem like a solid building block for the league. Add the returning Coastal/ND crew and the well establish Port Moody Gunners and you now have 6 or 7 pretty decent sides that should give each other some good competition and, hopefully, provide a good foundation for the future of the league. The problem is it peters out pretty quick after that, as evidenced by the fact that instead of back-filling the Premier vacancy with a Div. 1 team, the league will be playing with a bye week.

So, long story short, is ND returning to the FVSL a good news story for the league that should help make it stronger and more competitive? Absolutely. Is it the indication of an overall trend in the shift of soccer "power" towards the Valley? I just can't see it mate.

As I have said all along (and almost every time you post them) I totally back your reasons for why there should be a natural, gradual shift in power to the Valley/suburbs. I just can't find the tangible proof. I'm sure we could get into a whole other thread around why this should be happening but, as of now, is not (less single, "prime of their career" type guys living in the Valley? Proximity to University/Collegiate soccer programs? Population density/recruitment base? Guys moving to the suburbs to focus on family, etc. and playing soccer more casually?) but that could take up volumes! (Unlike this short discussion :) )




A VMSL team relocate to Maple Ridge??

Going after an early candidate for Piss Take of the Year right? Right?? ;)
 

Dude

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Ok I'll bite.

We've kicked around these economic theories before about advantages in the FVSL, and they are all very solid (lower cost of living, better facilities due to urban planning, etc.), but I am not sure how ND's "move" (collapse?) back to the FVSL supports your theory about a shift in power to the FVSL. I struggle to see how a team that abandoned the league, then failed to gain traction in the perceived "better" league and is now returning to the original league that it left represents a coup for the FVSL. Nevermind whether or not the core of the team is anything remotely resembling the "powerhouse" team that left two seasons ago, doesn't the fact that they could not make the grade in the VMSL emphasize the point that there has not been any shift in power at all?

Again with the Surrey Utd. example, you are talking about a team that finished fifth in the FVSL and missed the Provincial Cup for the first time in how long? I don't think you can say that they would have been a powerhouse in the VMSL and were unable to compete in the "now stronger" FVSL. Do getting these well run (?) and established programs represent a solid foundation for the FVSL? Yes, no doubt. Do they represent a "shift in power", I think the results on the field speak for themselves.

Speaking of those results, you are absolutely correct, it is a massive year for the league as it attempts to build on it's success from last season. However, let's examine that success. Aldergrove and Langley were the top two teams in the FVSL. Aldergrove, the league champions, did not face a VMSL team until the Provincial semi-finals and, at that point, they played the VMSL's 7th placed team and lowest entrant, the newly promoted Westside FC. They were deadlocked at 1-1 until a late red card provided them the opportunity they needed to put that game to bed. Aldergrove were carrying the play in that one, but had been unable to make it count until the sending off. They then were well beaten 2-0 in the final against Inter. They had some chances, and it's certainly not like Inter played them off the park, but overall I can't recall a point where I really thought "wow, Aldergrove have the upper hand here." Then they completely unravelled at the end of the game. Langley got past VMSL Rovers in the quarters with a quality performance. It was a scrappy 1-0 though and we all know those can go either way. The same though can be said for their semi-final loss to Inter. True, you can only beat the teams that are in front of you and Langley and Aldy were 100% full value for that, but I find it hard to believe that the top 6 VMSL teams will all be drawn against each other and canabalize themselves on an annual basis. I'm genuinely not trying to knock down the performances of the FVSL teams last season, I am just trying to say that when you take a look at it from the perspective of it being evidence of a larger trend/pattern, I am not sure that the evidence is as concrete as it might originally seem.

This season the FVSL will have a 9 team Premier Division, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for a strengthening league. In fact, I would suggest that the optics of that point in the other direction entirely, especially when one of those 9 is the team that got "relegated" last season. Albeit, thanks to some politics they have merged with another Premier team, though it was the one that finished second bottom. This PoMo/SU merger you speak of does sound like the makings of a powerhouse and I would expect that group to challenge the top two/three in Aldy, Langley and Abby. The promoted Burnaby Firefighters also seem like a solid building block for the league. Add the returning Coastal/ND crew and the well establish Port Moody Gunners and you now have 6 or 7 pretty decent sides that should give each other some good competition and, hopefully, provide a good foundation for the future of the league. The problem is it peters out pretty quick after that, as evidenced by the fact that instead of back-filling the Premier vacancy with a Div. 1 team, the league will be playing with a bye week.

So, long story short, is ND returning to the FVSL a good news story for the league that should help make it stronger and more competitive? Absolutely. Is it the indication of an overall trend in the shift of soccer "power" towards the Valley? I just can't see it mate.

As I have said all along (and almost every time you post them) I totally back your reasons for why there should be a natural, gradual shift in power to the Valley/suburbs. I just can't find the tangible proof. I'm sure we could get into a whole other thread around why this should be happening but, as of now, is not (less single, "prime of their career" type guys living in the Valley? Proximity to University/Collegiate soccer programs? Population density/recruitment base? Guys moving to the suburbs to focus on family, etc. and playing soccer more casually?) but that could take up volumes! (Unlike this short discussion :) )




A VMSL team relocate to Maple Ridge??

Going after an early candidate for Piss Take of the Year right? Right?? ;)

As always, very well written, and I enjoy reading your stuff. I just haven't had time to write a long reply, still don't.

I will always go back to this statement: "So, I said this was inevitable 15 something years ago, and stated then a Provincial FVSL Champ was only a matter of time...well...still waiting"

ND wasn't what I'd call a Powerhouse when they left, they were a good young team coming off a good year, but not a Powerhouse. Their return is good for the league, because of what the return means: merging strengths. Lion was looking for a club that would support his growth plan, and that meant finding a club w/ BCPL ties. ND did not support the growth plans, while Coastal is all in, and has the Cradle-to-Grave set-up. In addition, there is some financial support of the Premier team, taking the burden off Lion. My feeling is they went to the FVSL instead of the VMSL because of all the benefits of being in a league where many of the teams share a similar set-up to support longevity, and granted, one of those benefits is slotting right back in Premier. How many clubs in the FVSL have ties to a youth feeder system? How many in the VMSL? Again, it takes vision, not looking though a lens that only shows the present.

Not going to rehash the results. Bottom line, good draw, but you have to win the games to get to the dance. In the past, the FVSL teams would even buckle to the Island squads, but this year they were decidedly better. On the VMSL side, underdogs won their way through (but, really, can you call Inter an underdog? Maybe underachiever in the league, but not underdog), so what you write really takes away credit from those teams. Getting to the semis and finals is no small feat, no matter what. All teams are very good.

Had Aldergrove won that final, would you now be saying there is tangible proof? I will put my money on Aldy having a much stronger next 2-3 seasons than most teams in either league, certainly over an aging Inter squad. The "backfill", as you say, is not bad. The new Coastal will be mid table, I think. Burnaby, well...I would expect a relegation battle w/ Tigers. If they aren't in a relegation battle, then my feeling is it speaks to the weakness of the division. I expect Surrey Unite, Aldy, and Langley to battle for top of the table.

Again, too bad about West Coast, and I 100% agree with you, terrible optics.
 

deleted-dope

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We gotta stop with the valley vmsl stuff facts are facts vmsl is better football ther is no question about that. The better kids growing up all still seem to be attracted there. Maybe that might change but still as it stands to this second in our lives vmsl is still the better league. Maybe not run as well (that's a fact) but teams are better there is no doubt. Ya the odd game one offs any valley team could beat a vmsl team but shake your heads. Delta won league moved to vmsl div1 and came third, got humped in vmsl prem now I bet under coastal banner (coastal did not wanna be in vmsl, that's why they r in valley) compete for a top 3. Unlike a lot of you having played for delta I don't see why they left and moved, it's a stab in the back to all those who played for delta prem to have the team packed up and moved,cause coastal fcuked around so much and couldn't build a decent team for the last 5 years. I guess when u get paid and want to maybe one day become a tech director it's worth it to move. Anyways all the best to you all. Have a safe year. My dumb opinion displayed with horrible spelling and misuse of punctuation. I'm gonna say tigers win league, it happend to leister so I say why not!
 
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