Vacouver / Whistler 2010 Olympic Bid

Are you in favor of the 2010 Vancouver / Whistler Olympic Bid

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 1 4.2%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Dude

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So, Vancouver / Whistler is on the short list for the 2010 Winter Olympics. Not unexpected, considering “everyone” has been saying that it is Vancouver’s bid to lose, with Austria being the 2nd favorite.

By the looks of it, we’re out spending our competitors by a fair margin to take a run at these games. For the most part, I’m in favor- although I wish there was a better way of dealing with the Vancouver / Whistler transportation issue than building a new road we all don’t necessarily need.

Opinions?
 

Dude

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The Hockey...man-o-man!!!

I'm of the opinion that there are higher priority road improvements needed in the Lower Mainland than Sea-to-Sky. I suppose with Pemberton growing, a case can be made for future need, but right now, I think the Sea-to-Sky is adequate, as compared to the need to improve our freeway and bridges.

I don't decry the spending though. Whatever it takes to get a significant amount of Federally funded infrastructure, I'm all for it. I see the local economic impact helping us improve our hospitals and schools too.

Finally, the legacy it will leave in terms of helping improve our athletic development systems will be increadible.
 

cside17

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I'm not so sure the Olympics are such a great thing. Whistler already garners world wide attention, will 2010 increase it's popularity that much?

Vancouver already has social/economic problems as it is. Remember during Expo all those downtown eastside residents being put out on the street, just so some off shore owner could make another million through their greed! What will it be like during an event like the Olympics?

Wouldn't the billions be better spent improving our infra-structure, and dealing with our healthcare/education shortfalls. At the rate we are going half of TTP will be on a waiting list for surgery, and wouldn't be able to attend anyway.

The only legacy we will be left with is a huge debt, that we as tax payers are stuck with.

I say put the $$$ locally where needed! On another thing, just think of the amount of a**hole yanks we will have to put up with.


But then again, the sports would be awesome, Go Vancouver!




Afencesittingcside17
 

Dapotayto

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I have to agree with some of Cside's comments. Let's use the money we have for more important things than the Olympics. Education and healthcare being the most obvious. Man, we're closing down emergency rooms, cutting back on teachers and schools yet we want to spend millions and millions on a 2 week event? If I have a family and they're hungry, need clothes, medicine and schooling do I then go out and get seasons tickets to the Canucks instead? This province needs to prioritize. I am a sports junkie but I think we have to be realistic.
 

Guinness

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Mr. Potatoehead & seaside

While you are intitled to your own opinion, how do you figure we should use "THE" money on the ladder???
Man, we're closing down emergency rooms, cutting back on teachers and schools yet we want to spend millions and millions on a 2 week event?
I couln't agree more that we need to improve at these levels and provide solutions to this ongoing travesty, but if the money is NOT being spent on them now, how do you conclude that the money spent on the Olympics should be used in those area's???

BTW, the Olympics will bring millions of dollars in revenue and leave us with an upgrated infrastructure (hopefully) and brilliant new sports facilities!!!


In a nutshell, where's the problem (oh ya, those Eastside drug addicts):rolleyes:


Go Olympics Go!!!:wa: :bronco: :knvb:
 

Dude

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Having started this thread, I think I'm going to take a good read of the bid so I can comment a little more. Makes for some good debate.

That said, the only way we can pay for our schools and hospitals is through public funding. That's obvious. Clearly, we don't have enough right now, so to continue on with status quo is useless. To spend that money on our social systems without a plan or means of generating the revenue required would only send the Province into further deficit, while keeping us in an economic recession. The Olympics will bring an immediate cash flow of taxes through PST. The job creation, in terms of man-hours, is sure to be immense, creating even more revenue into the income tax accounts of the Province. On top of that, the job creation will not be short term- i.e.: 2 weeks. It will be a 5-year plan, minimal to prepare for those two weeks.

I'm inclined to believe that the job creation and increased revenue through taxes will be more than enough to offset the spending shortfall. I think our social systems will be better off in the long run, and the impact on our economy and personal revenue will surely be positive. BC may be in a deficit after all is said and done, but at least we'll have created an economic boom that could last for a decade or so, and pay for those social programs we really need.
 

Reccos

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Costs vs benefits

I don't sense a lot of public or media support for the games. The public and special interest group negativity in BC will no doubt be factors in the judges final decisions.

The reality is that no city has made money on the Olympics since 1984 when Los Angeles got huge corporate sponsorships. Check out the articles on creativeresistance.ca for some of the stats.

Calgary DID NOT make a profit if you count in the expenditures for Olympic facilities totalling $461 million. The argument then is that the Olympics are not about making a profit for governments, but leaving a legacy of infrastructure and facilities that will be important later on. In addition, the dollars brought in by tourists and the teams over the few weeks will support local business now and for years to come. And it creates jobs.

How about this from the The Observer about the Salt Lake City games: 'The US spent $1.5 billion of federal money on the games which was a 996% increase over Atlanta in 1996. By the end of two weeks in Salt Lake, the US spent about $625,00 for each of the 2,400 athletes there. If the minimum wage had gone up at the same rate of inflation, a MacDonalds worker would be getting $190 per hour.'

Although I personally find referendums by a provincial gov't dumb, what do others think of the local group's idea for a provincial referendum if we win the bid? There is precedence for this in Europe I believe where a city's voters rejected doing it and it went to the second place city.

Now wouldn't that fcuk up the Campbell gov't if this became a public outcry.
 

Dude

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Absolutely...it is all about the legacy and long term effects.

I don't if anyone has ever really tracked the long term benefits to Calgary or not, but:
· The Province of Alberta is deficit free (probably more to do w/ the oil fields)
· Calgary has turned into a dynamic, bustling city.
· Alberta residents- and Calgarians specifically- generally have more cash in their pockets at the end of the day.

These points may be indirectly, or even not al all related to the Olympics. I do think it is an interesting co-incidence, however. I think the majority of Albertans would agree that the ’88 Olympics were beneficial to the Province. Why not use the Olympics as a springboard to turning our Province around? When I think of the long-term infrastructure benefits (a new convention center will be included too), I get a little excited!
 

Gaffa

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Thumbs up...

IF one looks at the cities that have previously held the games, all used very different ways to raise capital, both private and public sectors involved. Personally I think Vancouver has a chance to learn from the mistakes made by others in previous Olympics and make the 2010 games work for all involved. The Sydney games were a success for the very most part and their model will be one used for the games to come...

Frankly its about time the private sector in BC stepped up to the plate. The present economic climate makes this very difficult at persent but personally I think Vancouver getting the Games would be just the shot in the arm we need to kickstart a province thats been bumbling along with no apparent direction for years. 'Vancouver' loves to think its a big North American city. Frankly its not. Purely from a sports perspective look at the dire situation over the past 10 years. Basketball gone. Indy leaving/staying, who knows. ACC golf, gone. Canucks, a small market team up for sale....the list continues. In short lets try and reverse the trend...get the games, do a great job and put the city/province back on the map.
 

Reccos

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Tracking Long Term Benefits

It is hard to be precise in calculating the benefits but the record of prior Olympics means that governments make big contributions to the facilities and this may be the biggest legacy. Another thought to consider. Check out the website mentioned in my earlier post.

If the US federal gov't in Salt Lake put in $625000 US per 2400 athletes they had there, why not this? We have been cutting aid to world class athletes in Olympic sports so why not take an Australian approach they used in the Summer games and spend a more reasonable sum of money for our athletes training. They could train in the Calgary facilities and maybe clean up some more medals!!

Then we can channel the money to "kickstart" the economy into transportation, health and education.

When I consider what they are now going to be charging for professional degrees (law, MBAs) huge dollars (market price), it strikes me that the money could be better spent. To get an MBA that cost me maybe $5,000 is going to be more like $30,000 or $40000. Now does that seem fair to you? Maybe a better educated workforce (not all MBAs of course) would do more for our economy and society than the Olympics.

Even the average student is having to pay more than I did for my undergrad degree and in those days there were great jobs working in a saw mill. All long gone for students. So now we have students making $9 an hour paying tuition that is putting them in debt. To top it all off the very people doing this to younger people now are people in my age bracket who benefited from lots of jobs during the summer and again when they graduated. Neither is true today for many.

This is a bit long but people should really read what has happened in other cities.

I will concede one thing. The feds will pay money here that we may not get any other way.
 

Dude

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Even the average student is having to pay more than I did for my undergrad degree and in those days there were great jobs working in a saw mill. All long gone for students. So now we have students making $9 an hour paying tuition that is putting them in debt. To top it all off the very people doing this to younger people now are people in my age bracket who benefited from lots of jobs during the summer and again when they graduated. Neither is true today for many.
I kind of see where you're going here, but it is a bit of a stretch. The only point I concede is that by lifting the tuition freeze, some students will be excluded from some degree programs. I am not sympathetic on the summer job argument though. I'm only 6 years removed from my post secondary days. Like most, I went into heavy debt, but I also worked my bag off in the summers. I sold books door-to-door and made very good money. There are plenty of good summer jobs out there for students, if they are willing to step outside their comfort zones. One of my cousins, in fact, did get a summer job at a sawmill as a grease monkey.

Anyhow, if you can suggest to me how the revenue could be generated to pay for all the social programs that "we should be funding instead of the Olympics", I'm all ears. My main interest in the Olympics is that it will bring immediate and long-term cash flow. On top of that, it will also provide students with great summer job opportunities.;)
 

Slav

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Some cost figures (lets go Van.2010)

Just bidding for the Games is costing $34 million Cdn. That includes a $500,000 US non-refundable cheque the 2010 bid committee must give the IOC for being selected to the short list. That's on top of $100,000 US just for submitting a bid.

The Vancouver committee is projecting a $2-billion Cdn Games operating budget - which includes $620 million Cdn from the provincial and federal governments to build facilities - and a $100-million Cdn surplus when the event is over.

The operating budget does not include the estimated $1 billion Cdn it would cost to add additional lanes to the Sea-to-Ski Highway which links Vancouver to Whistler, another $1.8 billion Cdn to build a light rail transit line connecting the airport with downtown nor the price of a new convention centre, which would serve as the main press centre.

Without a guarantee government money will be available to improve the narrow, twisting 90-kilometre highway between Vancouver and Whistler, the Vancouver bid will be in serious trouble.

``That has been identified by our opponents as an issue,'' said Jack Poole, the bid corporation's chairman and chief executive officer.

``We've asked our government to tell us what the solution will be.''

If the government is unwilling to spend the money, the committee has proposed spending $31 million Cdn to rent a fleet of 20 ferries to sail spectators from Vancouver to Squamish, then send them by train or bus onto Whistler.

Among the capital projects included in the bid is a $57-million Cdn speed skating oval at Simon Fraser University, a $28.8-million Cdn hockey facility at the University of British Columbia and a $24-million Cdn curling rink.

At Whistler, $96 million Cdn is earmarked for cross-country and ski jump facilities and $52.8 million Cdn for a bobsled track.

Another $9.3 Cdn million would be spent upgrading GM Place, home of the NHL Vancouver Canucks, for hockey and $24 million Cdn to put figure skating and short-track speed skating at the Pacific Coliseum.

The B.C. government says the Games could generate up to $10 billion Cdn in economic activity and 228,000 jobs.

-From www.tsn.ca

As you can see from above the games could/should generate up to $10 billion in economic activity.

Also, 228,000 more jobs, which means maybe the people who spend the whole day protesting against the bid (who we support through welfare) can do something useful for once and build Vancouver some World Class facilities and then we won't have to support them. DAMN LEFTIEST TREE HUGERS!!!:) :mad:
 

Reccos

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Slav - Good Stuff, Not the Business Case

The costs for the facilities and highways are pretty realistic. The economic spinoffs are a crap shot. $100 million surplus??? I wonder what sleight of hand bookkeeping is came up with that. The math doesn't add up.

If you want to spend that much taxpayer money, why not do three things with it:
1. develop world class health and rehabilitation facilities -that creates jobs.
2. develop additional educational and training facilities to make BC first class and develop people for the new economy.
3. invest in our athletes so they can win the medals in some other guys country.

You will probably say that these steps won't necessarily create a lot of spin off jobs and help make the economy boom. You may or may not be right. But then again, people can say the same thing about the real long term impacts from the winter Olympics. And you know what, these criticisms are very valid. Look at what the tax cut was going to do to create the new era of prosperity for BC. It was an act of faith much like Guinness' wish for some rough sex from the 19 year old women's team.
 

One Dart

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I think that I am sick and tired about all the whining about health care and education in this province for the time being. What exactly pays for health care and education? Oh right, tax dollars. What do people with more money do (those with jobs)? They spend more money and therefore create more tax dollars.
228,000 jobs creates a lot of wealth for the citizens of British Columbia. I know that from working in retail that people with more money buy more expensive things.

As for the tax cut, without making this thread any more politiced than it has the potential to be, if things weren't so fukced up from the previous government, the tax cut would be able to work because services wouldn't have to be offloaded onto taxpayers.:wa:
 

Dude

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If you want to spend that much taxpayer money, why not do three things with it:
1. develop world class health and rehabilitation facilities -that creates jobs.
2. develop additional educational and training facilities to make BC first class and develop people for the new economy.
3. invest in our athletes so they can win the medals in some other guys country.
I’m actually in agreement with Reccos here, but indirectly. The purpose of the Olympics is to give the economy a significant one-time jolt, a windfall of spending in a 5 year period that creates revenue through tax dollars that will be injected into these programs. At the same time, I will argue that the lead-up to the Olympics will creates far more jobs than some world class health and rehabilitation facilities will create. The Olympics is a means to paying for these things.

Also, I’ll argue that on a whole, BC and Canada already have some of the best educated population (although, you wouldn’t know from most TTP posts), and best education facilities available world-wide. Students in this country don’t need to look elsewhere to get a better education than what can usually be sought in their home province.

Look at what the tax cut was going to do to create the new era of prosperity for BC. It was an act of faith much like Guinness' wish for some rough sex from the 19 year old women's team.
Actually, you have to be working in the industrial sector to see that the minute the NDP government was ousted, the enthusiasm alone helped get the economy moving. The Unions may not have liked it, and continue to make a big "doom and gloom" stink about it, but we are slowly crawling out of this recession. Despite the softwood lumber crisis, we are generally seeing more spending in the private sector. More expansions, more new sites & buildings, and more upgrades to old facilities. Our business had its worst fiscal year in 5 years during the last half of F’2001 and the first half of F’2002. The second half of F’2002 has been a complete turnaround. Ninety percent of our sales are in BC. This same trend is being echoed throughout the industrial sector. Coincidence?
 

tiner

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go vancouver

no arguments here that i didnt hear before sydney.

i dont believe that a goverment would take this money and spend it in health and education as much as we would like them to. they havent up until now so it wont change.

vancouver is in need of this. it could really do with the party.

you will all remember this for the rest of your lives. especially if you guys kick americas behind in the hockey again.

BTW: if you do win this i will need a place to stay. and (LOL) hockey tickets. thank you :wa:
 

Dude

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I'll put you up Tiner, in exchange for being my hot little Aussie love slave. I'll have to ask the wife first, of course.:eek:

"Call me Mate again baby..."

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...;)
 

SC

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Tiner...

Excuse me, there is always the old fallback....Hastings and Main :eek: I'm sure it'll be cleaned up by then:wa:
 

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