Passion

[Ballbaby]

Balls my old hirsute olive-bothering chum, you never fail to make me laugh. You are, of course, absolutely right in all you say apart from the following; there are bound to be more perverted TTP'ers than you. You can no longer get by on your Greekness alone. You must try harder. It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for and it is they who have stolen your mantle of depravity. They did it quietly, you see. Under cover of darkness. I hate to have broken this to you at this, a time during which your sympathetic and sentimental character is feeling the need to dwell on the innate and abhorrent nature of mankind, but, to bastardise a classic Depeche Mode song lyric, truth is my policy. Honestly. Having danced in gutters, been lectured in a ballroom and dwelled an audience, I also appreciate the sentiment behind your words in that respect. Homer had nothing on you in terms of poetry. His Iliad, as well as the rest of Springfield, be damned.

I wonder how many here can really appreciate the quality of your post! Classic!

Springfield and Iliad in one sentence? That has never been done. Truly groundbreaking!

 

[Rangerforever]

Re: Fasty and his 'feel good threads'

And I'm not talking about when he parades around in Beanbag's ginch late at night.

Pasqua from himself,

First one to appreciate: Rangerforever

Not seen the film yet, but I can also say I appreciate Mel.

A man who puts this kind of 'passion' into depicting the lives of true heros like Christ and William Wallace rates extremely high in my books.

Braveheartsforever

 

[Aves]

his efforts portray the key scriptural accounts from eye witnesses to the event which was recorded much earlier than the birth of the Roman Church with the conversion of constantiene in 450ish AD.

The gospels of Luke, Mark and others that speak of the last day are not quite "eyewitness" accounts are they?...written many years after the event. I'm no bible expert, but the bible as a historical document is indeed questionable. But I think the movie is more about isolating the defining moment / critical mass point of the christian faith...with no crucifixion and martyr, would there be such a following of the teachings of Jesus?...aside from one's religious beliefs about Jesus' divine link to God, if we are to admire his teachings (which I do)...would we single him out as a prophet without the crucifixion?
Can we admire the man without making the full leap of faith to give him God status? The crucifixion is historical fact...the resurrection however???

 

[Fastshow]

But I think the movie is more about isolating the defining moment / critical mass point of the christian faith...

Excellent.

RF, therein lies my grievance with your hero; his ham-fisted Scottish accent in that rather good otherwise fantasy film, Braveheart, was not something I'd been subjected to since Niall came back from Airdrie. I can't blame your man for that, though, obviously there simply weren't any good Scottish actors who could have handled the role. They were far too busy managing football clubs in England, presumably. Graeme Souness would have made the thing a classic.

 

[Saint]

Re: Passion for meat pies

Hi Ronnie!

~Regs.

It was Pentateuchian, wasn’t it? I knew it was a Good Book reference too far. Foiled again.

I'm sure you or someone close to you could offer something intelligent to the discussion, polemical or not. And I wish you or she would. I didn’t spend Ascough’s otiosely earned money on a premium membership to read biblical rhetoric 101. I need a higher brand of religiosity. My indignation, much like my waistline, is protean, honest.

Yours as ever,

Disciple of Priapus

 

[Regs]

I'll add my two bits after me and someone close to me sees the flick. I'm afraid my own rhetoric at this point would be highly skewed by the experience I was subjected to in a highly American "christian" environment during the Gulf war in Iraq

Good reading so far though

Later Ronnie,

~Regs.

 

[the manager]

But I think the movie is more about isolating the defining moment / critical mass point of the christian faith...with no crucifixion and martyr, would there be such a following of the teachings of Jesus?...aside from one's religious beliefs about Jesus' divine link to God, if we are to admire his teachings (which I do)...would we single him out as a prophet without the crucifixion?

you're right aves...the crucifiction is central and key to the Christian faith. it is not so much that there needed to be a crucifiction to amass a large following per se, but in the crucifiction, that which mankind could never do - earn justification before God by good works-was done in Jesus. it is called the attonement and Christians believe that through Jesus God reconciled the world to himself and paid the ultimate price by giving his own life. without the crucifiction, there is no attonement.

Can we admire the man without making the full leap of faith to give him God status?

if we examine the teaching of Jesus we begin to see that he made distinct referances to being God. CS Lewis, an Oxford proffessor, remarks in his work Mere Christianity that Jesus was either God, who he calimed to be, or a complete lunatic...it presents challenges to accept him only as a good moral teacher. sure he can be admired for what he stood for, but if accepted only on that level he becomes not only a lunatic, but a liar as well.

The gospels of Luke, Mark and others that speak of the last day are not quite "eyewitness" accounts are they?...written many years after the event.

in actiality, they are considered to be, simply because they evidence was gathered from those who were with Jesus during his ministry and crucifiction(there were more disciples than the twelve). even though some manuscripts were written much later (i.e. the book of kells is one of the latest, written by the celts), autographs were known to be written early after the events while original witnesses were still alive (i.e. the book of Peter, John, Mathew, James, Jesus' brother...all were disciples). there are significantly more manuscripts for the life, death and ressurection of Jesus than there are for other non christian historical events that scholars and people in general accept as historical fact. a good book for those with interest is by Lee Strobel a former reporter with the Chicago tribune, titled "the case for Christ" in it, he looks at all of the controversy surrounding the ressurtection and various theories about what happened...

manager

 

[Fastshow]

The Lion, the Witch, and The Bible.......

CS Lewis, an Oxford proffessor, remarks in his work Mere Christianity that Jesus was either God, who he calimed to be, or a complete lunatic...it presents challenges to accept him only as a good moral teacher. sure he can be admired for what he stood for, but if accepted only on that level he becomes not only a lunatic, but a liar as well.

Cs Lewis also spent a great deal of his time in Narnia.

Bless him.

 

[the manager]

Re: The Lion, the Witch, and The Bible.......

Cs Lewis also spent a great deal of his time in Narnia.

Bless him.

indeed he did...you're posts are always good for a laugh fastshow

 

[Dapotayto]

I'll add my two bits after me and someone close to me sees the flick.

~Regs.

Actually, Regs, it's not necessary to wait until you've viewed the film to provide an opinion or write a review. See following Fastshow quote...

This is (only) slightly off topic but forgive me (my trespasses), I haven't actually seen the bastard film

...And now I am waiting impatiently for Fastshow's new thread, Movie Reviews of Films I Haven't Seen. This is going to save me incredible amounts of time and money I spend actually sitting in theatres watching flicks and consuming popcorn (not to mention pestering people with, "what is happening now?", "who's that guy?" and the like).

I am starting to feel a little nervous being in this thread. It feels like someone is watching me and as if, somehow, I don't...quite... belong... here.

 

[Dude]

if we examine the teaching of Jesus we begin to see that he made distinct referances to being God. CS Lewis, an Oxford proffessor, remarks in his work Mere Christianity that Jesus was either God, who he calimed to be, or a complete lunatic...it presents challenges to accept him only as a good moral teacher. sure he can be admired for what he stood for, but if accepted only on that level he becomes not only a lunatic, but a liar as well.

The last thing I want to do is inspire a heated religious debate, but why can't Jesus be accepted as a prophet? One third of religious people in the world accept him as a prophet, and believe there is one God (the same God, it should be noted, that every Christian and Jew believe in). He claimed to be the son of God, which is open to interpretation. All prophets had powers bestowed onto them by God, so what makes Jesus different in this aspect (note, I did not ask for differences in His message)?

 

[the manager]

All prophets had powers bestowed onto them by God, so what makes Jesus different in this aspect (note, I did not ask for differences in His message)?

there are several hundred referances from the Hebrew bible, (not Jesus' calims about himself) which Jesus grew up a follower of, that foretell of the events and actions surrounding the promised deliverer from the Jews. there are examples such as from the bookl of Isaiah that depict a suffering servant (depicting the crucifiction) and that attest to a virgin birth, miracles, signs and wonders and the like. further there is referance throughout the hebrew bible to a ressurection, place of birth, royal lineage and so forth that add to the claims of who Jesus was. there is even a referance to the 30 poieces of silver that he would eventuially be betrayed for. these referances point to much more than being a mere prophet. I can furnish you with referances if you like.

not debate, dialogue,

manager

 

[Dude]

All of the prophets performed impossible miracles, and all the books have references to the future. The Quoran (I believe, because I always doze off reading it) states that Jesus will return on the Day of Judgement to, erm, judge us all.

Let's just hope Dap sleeps in that day...

 

[the manager]

All of the prophets performed impossible miracles, and all the books have references to the future. The Quoran (I believe, because I always doze off reading it) states that Jesus will return on the Day of Judgement to, erm, judge us all.

Let's just hope Dap sleeps in that day...

Amos never performed miracles, as well as several other prophets in the hebrew bible, yet they were regarded as prophets..., if I'm not mistaken, Mohamed never attested to performing miracles either. I'll doubble check that with my muslim friend, however, i'm sure thats accurate.

respectfuly,

manager

 

[Dude]

I'm fairly certain you're off on Mohammed, but again, I've dozed off too often, and my attention span wanes when Mrs. Dude tries to edumacate me. The fact that he wrote the Quoran having not know how to read is counted as one. No idea on Amos, so point to you.

 

[Aves]

if we examine the teaching of Jesus we begin to see that he made distinct referances to being God. CS Lewis, an Oxford proffessor, remarks in his work Mere Christianity that Jesus was either God, who he calimed to be, or a complete lunatic...it presents challenges to accept him only as a good moral teacher. sure he can be admired for what he stood for, but if accepted only on that level he becomes not only a lunatic, but a liar as well.

It's this all or nothing thing that does not promote tolerance and respect for people with / without faith. When you present the case that if Jesus was only a moral teacher then he and all who follow him as "the son of god" are lunatics and liars...while it speaks to the crux of the matter, it forces people to stake a definite claim on all those around them: Lunatic or not?? Heathen or not?? This , in my opinion, is the pitfall of organized religion all over the world...it separates instead of joins people of all races / ethnicity etc. into common spiritual issues, hopes and dreams.
I can aprreciate Jesus and christian energy for promoting peace, humility, and the golden rule...beyond that, I prefer to not to have to consider them lunatics because they don't think like me.

 

[the manager]

It's this all or nothing thing that does not promote tolerance and respect for people with / without faith. When you present the case that if Jesus was only a moral teacher then he and all who follow him as "the son of god" are lunatics and liars...while it speaks to the crux of the matter, it forces people to stake a definite claim on all those around them: Lunatic or not?? Heathen or not?? This , in my opinion, is the pitfall of organized religion all over the world...it separates instead of joins people of all races / ethnicity etc. into common spiritual issues, hopes and dreams.
I can aprreciate Jesus and christian energy for promoting peace, humility, and the golden rule...beyond that, I prefer to not to have to consider them lunatics because they don't think like me.

i appreciate your insigt Aves...

please understand that what jesus stood for was the opposite of intolerance and seperation. he spoke harshly to the establishments of his day that segregated the not so holies from the holies and he was also the greatest advocate for justice. he embraced all who needed love. slamming the religious eliete for being an exclusive bunch was partially to blame for his death. he even crossed cultural boundaries by interacting with the samaratin woman at the well.

the wonderful thing that God is doing in the world is bring all people together. not by force, but love. Cristianity is the most culturally diverse faith in the world. throughout history religions, yes, unfortunately even misguided people in the name of Jesus, have used faith as a means to seperate, conquer and assert power...how opposite to what Jesus stood for. he even warned of this himself.

 

[Saint]

I can aprreciate Jesus and christian energy for promoting peace, humility, and the golden rule...beyond that, I prefer to not to have to consider them lunatics because they don't think like me.

I may be experiencing a moment of profound alcoholic lucidity and shite, but your post really does clear it all up for me. Thanks, Aves.

Both Fastshow and CS Lewis paid 6000 quid for a paperweight on wheels. There's a Godly conundrum no one will understand.


I love Oxbridge

 

[Hands of Stone]

This might help clear some things up about all the misconceptions of the different religions out there.

Taoism * shite happens
Confucianism * Confucius say, "shite happens"
Buddhism * shite happening is an illusion
Islam * shite happening is the will of Allah
Zen * what is the sound of shite happening?
Hinduism * this shite has happened before
Catholicism * if shite happens you deserve it
Judiasm * why does shite always happen to us?
Calvinism * shite happens because you don't work hard enough
Christian Science * if shite happens, pray and it will go away
Protestantism * let shite happen to someone else
Atheism * shite happens for no reason
Agnosticism * maybe shite happens, maybe it doesn't
Hare Krisna * shite happens, shite happens, shite happens
Stoicism * shite happens; I can take it
Jehovah's Witnesses * let us in and we'll tell you why shite happens
Rastafarianism * let's smoke this shite and see what happens

On that note I heard a good one the other day:

Two men are arguing about which one is Jesus, the one says to the other, "come into this Pub and I will prove to you that I am Jesus."
As the man walks into the Pub, the bartender screams out, "Jesus Christ, not you again."

HOS

 

[Keeper]

Had a few hours to kill between subbing and night school so I took it in. I'd be interested in hearing more from other who have seen it, but in the meantime, my review:

The Chicago Sun Times movie critic, Roger Ebert, wrote that "The Passion of the Christ" isn't "a movie that anyone would call 'commercial,' and if it grosses millions, that will not be because anyone was entertained." And he was exactly right. I can't say I was "entertained" in the conventional sense of the word, and to be honest I didn't expect to be. In fact, feelings of slight nervousness came over me as I was choosing to purchase my ticket. I had heard long since it was released that it may be the most violent movie ever filmed. And in a sense, it is.

This is certainly not a film for the faint of heart; but on the other hand, it is the most powerful movie for anyone with a heart. The director, Mel Gibson, grabs you and squeezes every droplet of intensity you have within you, leaving you little more than a speechless automaton as you leave the theatre.

Granted, there are issues that some viewers may find themselves dividing along anti-Semitic lines. Indeed, the High Priest, Caiaphas, comes off slightly more "guilty" than does Pontius Pilate. Pilate comes off as young, frightened and weak, while Caiaphas is presented as old, bitter and angry. However, this was a Jewish-based community (aside from the Roman guardians), so everyone (portrayed good and bad) was Jewish, including Simon, Veronica, and Jesus himself. So to suggest that Gibson has presented an anti-Semitic message is a gross misrepresentation of the story and the characters.

There are few ways I can begin to describe the veracity of the imagery and the power of the emotions displayed by the characters. It’s not just the agony and suffering of Jesus we are meant to empathize with, but also the distraught felt by Judas, the self-loathing of Peter, and the strength in sadness shown by Mary. These characters’ stories and motivations are magnificently interjected amongst the tribulations that Jesus must endure until the last, long, and mesmerizing look from Mary. And not once is there a single moment of abatement.