Passion

Dude

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Graham Roxborough (co-coach @ Trinity) from our squad had a bunch of free tickets to Mel Gibson's "The Passion of Christ" last night, so a bunch of us took our wives out for the evening.

All I can say about this is what an intense two hours. It wasn't at all what I expected. Basically, it takes you through the last days of Christ's life and the crucifixion. I will not say this is an entertaining film, but it sure is powerful, and brutally graphic. There wasn't a lot of chatter in leaving the theater, and many stayed in their seats well after to absorb what they just saw.

As far as accuracy goes, I'll have to leave it to others. I'm not a practicing Christian, nor do I actively practice any religion. I do have my beliefs. I can say this: the Trinity guys on our squad said that many religious educators in the area, and pastors, have stated that the accuracy as far as being consistent to the bible is nuts on (in their opinions). I spoke w/ my wife about it too. As a Muslim growing up studying Islam, she found that the historical depiction, and Christ's message, was very accurate to the Quoran. The only part she questioned was more of the assumption (as it really wasn't preached or spoken) that Christ is / was the true son of God, where Muslims believe there is only one God and Jesus was a prophet. Other than that, the historical content, as she understands it, was consistent with what is written in the Quoran.

The movie isn't preachy at all. The only word to describe it is "Powerful". I took it in expecting it to be a bit preachy, but it wasn't. I left with the impression that we had just witnessed Gibson's interpretation of the historical sequence of events of Christ in his last days, and he sure didn't hold back.
 

Fastshow

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relatedly........

Mad Max does JC (not Guinness, the other one), the world's gone madder still.........

'Passion' watcher dies

By James Langton, Evening Standard

26 February 2004

A woman has died while watching one of the first performances of Mel Gibson's controversial new film about the last hours of Jesus.

She collapsed with a suspected heart attack during the crucifixion scene in The Passion Of The Christ, which has been heavily criticised for extreme violence.

Doctors and nurses watching in Wichita, Kansas, tried to revive the woman, in her fifties, but she died in hospital. A spokesman for Gibson refused to comment, apart from saying: "We are not yet aware of all the facts."

The film opened yesterday across America, amid a storm over the graphic violence and its alleged anti-Semitism.

Gibson, who comes from an ultra-conservative Catholic family, has sunk nearly £20million of his own money into the project after the major studios refused to back him. Unofficial estimates put the film's opening day take at nearly £15 million, making it one of the most successful ever midweek openings in the United States.

A marketing campaign includes souvenir necklaces with nails like those hammered into Christ's hands in the final scenes.

Many screenings were completely sold out, with church groups block-booking entire cinemas, including one with 21 screens in a suburb of Dallas, Texas.

Audiences emerged clutching tissue boxes and saying they had been moved to tears by the film, which stars a largely unknown cast and was made entirely in Latin and Aramaic.

One woman in Chicago said she was left "gasping for breath", while evangelist Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham, called it "a great film".

But reviews have condemned the film as "a sickening death trip'' and "stomach-churning".

Jewish groups picketing cinemas included some in Manhattan dressed in concentration camp uniforms. Several Jewish leaders have attacked the film.

Gibson has denied he is anti-Semitic and is hinting he may make more films based on the Bible.

 

the manager

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I had a chance to take in the movie last night. as a student in theology and biblical history i will affirm dude's comments about the accuracy of the crucifiction event. in fact, the Romans agreed it was too brutal that,not long after the time of Christ they banned it as an execution method. the extent of the pain involved in such brutality was so severe that it had no verbal expression in language until the latin term excruciating evolved (ex= from out of, crus= crucifixion).

the movie is powerful and not preechy. i, as a practicing Christian, personally abhore the imposing of one's belief upon another...it is often tactless and insensative. this movie does something different. this movie portrays an accurate historic event and proposes, through the interweaving snipits of Christ's life and teaching throughout the movie, a way of life that encompasses sevanthood, sacrafice and ultimate love.

manager
 

the manager

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here is an interview with the guy who played Jesus

Feb. 16 issue - James Caviezel, the 35-year-old actor who first came to attention in Terrence Malick's "The Thin Red Line" and starred in "The Count of Monte Cristo," talks to NEWSWEEK's Sean Smith about the agony and the ecstasy of playing the Savior in the controversial "The Passion of the Christ."
SMITH: Before you played this part, did anyone ever tell you that you looked like Jesus?

CAVIEZEL: Not at all. When I was younger someone once said, "You look like Mel Gibson." I told Mel that, and he said, "No you don't. I'm much better looking."[Laughs]
Playing Jesus is obviously a daunting proposition. Why did you say yes to Mel?
I got a phone call telling me that producer Stephen McEveety wanted to meet with me about a surfing movie. I went and met him for lunch, and after a few hours Mel Gibson shows up. He starts talking about what Christ really went through, and I said, "Yeah, I saw the Zeffirelli movie ['Jesus of Nazareth']." He goes, "No, no. I'm talking about the real thing." And then it hit me. I said, "You want me to play Jesus."
So the surfing movie...
Was just a front. They were trying to get a feel for me.
Did he tell you he wanted you to play it in Aramaic?


He was talking about thatAramaic, Hebrew and Latinbut I thought, "He isn't really thinking about doing it." [Laughs] Working with Mel Gibson is a little like waltzing with a hurricane. It's always exciting, and you're never quite sure where it's going to take you. I thought learning the languages was going to be the most difficult part. It turned out the physical pain was the worst because of the cold.
The cold? Didn't you shoot this in Italy?
Yeah, in winter. I was freezing in that loincloth. The physical pain started at 2 in the morning. At the worst it was eight hours of makeup, and I couldn't sit down; I was in this crouched position. [During the Crucifixion] the wind was just coming down those canyons, slicing me apart. The cold was just... have you seen those things at the fair where there's a guy on a wheel, and they spin the wheel and throw knives at him and they just miss? On this movie I felt like they were all hitting me.
The long scene where Jesus gets scourged with metal lashes is incredibly difficult to watch.
There was a board on my back, about a half-inch thick, so the Roman soldiers wouldn't hit my back. But one of the soldiers missed, hit me flush on the back and ripped the skin right off. I couldn't scream, I couldn't breathe. It's so painful that it shocks your system. I looked over at the guy, and I probably said the F word. Within a couple of strokes he missed again. There's like a 14-inch scar on my back . So we had good days and bad days.
Sounds like more bad than good.
You know I got struck by lightning.
You got struck by lightning?
Oh, yeah. We were shooting the Sermon on the Mount. About four seconds before it happened it was quiet, and then it was like someone slapped my ears. I had seven or eight seconds of, like, a pink, fuzzy color, and people started screaming. They said I had fire on the left side of my head and light around my body. All I can tell you is that I looked like I went to Don King's hairstylist.
Did it occur to you that if you're playing Christ and you get struck by lightning, maybe
[Laughs, then, as if speaking to God:] "Didn't like that take, huh?"
You're Catholic. Did playing Christ deepen your faith?
I love him more than I ever knew possible. I love him more than my wife, my family. There were times when I was up there [on the cross], and I could barely speak. Continual hypothermia is so excruciating. I connected to a place I could have never, ever gone. I don't want people to see me. All I want them to see is Jesus Christ.
Did Mel tell you why he wanted to make the film?
He told me that he went through a rough stretch in his life, and that he rediscovered the Gospels about 12 years ago. He began meditating on the passion and death of Jesus. In doing so, he said the wounds of Christ healed his wounds. And I think the film expresses that.
Has the controversy around the film and the fact that Mel's been accused of anti-Semitism surprised you?
It's been the most frustrating thing to watch. I can tell you this much, the guy is not in the least anti-Semitic. I never saw it. Maia Morgenstern [who plays the Virgin Mary] is this beautiful Jewish Romanian actress whose parents were in the Holocaust. Every day he'd say, "Maia, tell me about your traditions. Is this OK to do?" He wanted to make this film very Semitic. Instead of having an Aryan, blue-eyed Jesus, he wanted to have a very Semitic Jesus. Our faith is grounded in our Jewish tradition. We believe we're from the House of David. We believe we're from the House of Abraham, so we cannot hate our own. That crowd standing before Pontius Pilate screaming for the head of Christ in no way convicts an entire race for the death of Jesus Christ any more than the actions of Mussolini condemn all Italians, or the heinous actions of Stalin condemn all Russians. We're all culpable in the death of Christ. My sins put him up there. Yours did. That's what this story is about.
Was it hard to keep silent when Jewish leaders were voicing their concerns?
They have every right to defend their faith. But I believe that when all my Jewish brothers see this film, they will realize that it's not about assigning blame. It's about love. It's about sacrifice. It's about forgiveness and hope.
 

Keeper

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Although I plan to see it, all I can say about those critics who moan about the graphic brutality of it: look who made it for Christ's sake (pardon the pun). This is the same guy who was slammed for a short while when he released Braveheart. With so many legs, arms, and heads getting lopped off, non-violence critics were screaming for censorship.

Now, in telling a story which culmanates with a crucifixtion, people expect him to tone it down? You might as well ask John Woo to stop using slow-motion doves for dramatic effect.

Putz.

Gibson has denied he is anti-Semitic and is hinting he may make more films based on the Bible.
Get The Rock to play Moses. :cool:
 

Ballbaby

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Did Gibson purpously make the movie brutal to sell tickets? I don't believe it for a minute. He made it brutal to depict the true suffering that Jesus Christ experienced. It's interesting that this brutality has surprised so many. Really, what do people think really goes on in the world? We are so sheltered from the harsh reality.

Gibson is a passionate man and he is a complex man. He has contemplated suicide several times. It is proven that those who suffer from depression have higher than average IQ's and are much more sensitive to the complexities of life. They are intuned to matters that many average people don't even begin to contemplate. Gibson's reason for making this movie addresses his deep insight and curiousity of Jesus Christ and Christianity. He obviously utilized his faith to deal with his low points in his life. I would think this movie was therapeutic to him.

I get angry with those of us who always paint this pretty little picture in life. I guess I see some of the harsh realities in my work and I understand that some people do not need to face some of the brutal aspects of our society. Like Mel Gibson stated, if you want to hide from the truth, don't watch the damn movie!

Personally, whether you are a practising Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or whatever, and you are a person who likes to ponder life, then don't let the true brutality depicted in the movie stop you from watching it.
 

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You just knew that the minute anyone tries to take on the realities of Christianity, hell any religion for that matter, there is going to be controversy. In this day and age it is politically incorrect to discuss your faith, none the less make a movie about it, wonder why the world’s going to pot.

I seen this movie and it's a wonderfully, moving picture, not a dry eye in the house, even the most macho will be brought to tears. It is highly affecting and leaves you with complex emotions. There is violence in the movie, yes but was there not violence in the torture and crucifixion Jesus? The anti-Semitism that people are bitching about was considerable less than what I would have expected; if you are catholic you will understand what I am saying. I think that he made a brilliantly, truthful movie based on the bible. I believe he, being a devote catholic, was trying to show us what Jesus had to endure for us, to leave us with not a sense of dread, but a renown sense of faith.

I think everyone should see this movie, but be warned it will stir up overwhelming emotions. My two cents worth at least.
 

Dude

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I guess not being Jewish I don't understand how or why some are so insulted. The movie is written from a historical standpoint, as best is known about the true events. Gibson also depicts many of the Jewish as compassionate, and caring beyond religious boundaries. The scenes of the unnamed Jew who was forced to help him carry the cross, and the woman who tried to feed him water, come to mind. He also showed that Christians can be weak, with Peter's betrayal of Christ.

Yes, the Rabbis were depicted as brutal in their treatment of Christ, but as Balls stated, let's get real. Religious strife is nothing new in this world. Imagine if Gibson chose to make a movie closer to current events, like the suffering Kosovars experienced at the hands of Millosovic. I argue that it would be as graphic, if not more.
 

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Breaking news

Mel Gibson’s audacious transposition of ecce homo to the big screen has been received with both awestruck acclaim and horrified indignation. It will not be particularly surprising to hear that Christ’s devotees are among the more prevalent of those lambasting the film, which depicts crucifixion as a particularly macabre affair.

It is rumoured that Mr. Gibson has not been at all dissuaded by the lustily pious criticism. In fact, the devout Catholic has already committed to a further installment of the Good Book; loose-tongued confidants of the Lethal Weapon vedette claim that Gibson will look to the Old Testament for inspiration. He hopes that this will help create an appropriate context in which to situate the Messiah himself.

Who is this Pentateuchian muse, you ask? This is of course a closely guarded secret, but the cheeky leak of a provisional title has led to the premature penetration of the holy mystery. The following phrase was found scribbled on a sheet of A5 paper only a few miles from Mr. Gibson’s ranch in the Australian Outback: “Onan, the Silly Wanker”.

Let us hope that Mel’s portrayal of Onan is as raw and graphic as “The Passion”. Who knows? Perhaps we’ll have a real masturpiece on our hands.
 

Fastshow

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I'm no theologian but wasn't Jesus a Jew Himself? Oh how I've missed rhetoric.

Nevermind people missing the brutality of existence, I truly fear for the continued propogation of our species when people start taking someone like Mel 'I used to be an Aussie but now I'm a proud American' Gibson seriously. Mad Max for the love of the Little Baby Gibson. Gibson belongs to an ultra-conservative (small 'C') division of the Holy Roller Roman tribe and, in putting up £20 million of his own shekels, the man is obviously going to make the film that suits his tastes, beliefs and those of the Roman Catholic church before they re-jigged many of their doctrines in the 1960's.

The worrying thing for me is that, much like The Bible itself, people will believe what suits them from this shite he's released onto the world and why's that? Because Mel Gibson propagandised his own beliefs given the benefit of his being a Very Wealthy Bastard Indeed? I've read about the uber-religious nutters in America's South booking entire cinema complexes to witness Mel's whimsy. I've also read the Klan is considering making the thing essential watching for their charming membership. Nice one, Melvin.

I've also read el Gibson banging on about how he's been 'crucified' for his beliefs as an artist in this. That is indescribably crass. You were in Lethal Weapon 1-4,138, bell-end. Whatever his beliefs, this whole debacle to me smacks of arrogance on an unprecedented scale, disgusting profiteering (the cnut's flogging necklaces similar to that which the big JC wore as He met His Maker), and his own hugely selfish mandate.

I'm not surprised Dude likes it, though. It's quite a nice feel-good story. Despite the bit when the hero gets hammered up against bits of two-by-four and is made to wear a crown of thorns, having Easter is such a lovely end to a wonderful story.......

I'd like to know what Danny Glover thinks about all this......
 

the manager

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Gibson belongs to an ultra-conservative (small 'C') division of the Holy Roller Roman tribe and, in putting up £20 million of his own shekels, the man is obviously going to make the film that suits his tastes, beliefs and those of the Roman Catholic church before they re-jigged many of their doctrines in the 1960's.
due to the prelevance of denominationalism throughout christianity, i see how this assumption can come into play. however, aside from the various slants or interpretations that denominations may advocate, it is hard to see any in the passion movie. his efforts portray the key scriptural accounts from eye witnesses to the event which was recorded much earlier than the birth of the Roman Church with the conversion of constantiene in 450ish AD. in actuality, if Gibson used the Gospels, as he claims and which i believe, then his account is free from any denominational slants and accurate to history.

manager
 

Fastshow

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the manager said:
....in actuality, if Gibson used the Gospels, as he claims and which i believe, then his account is free from any denominational slants and accurate to history.

manager
We'll agree to disagree though I see your point and I'm genuinely pleased you were able to get something from the film. We could argue the toss on this for the next 2004 years and, frankly, Mel Gibson really ain't worth any more of my time. I thought Payback was mince.

I have a Martin Amis book to read. Saint put me onto him.

In a literal sense.
 

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It appears that Mel's history in films and choice in roles is compromising his present credibility. At least it appears that way with Fastshow, my ultra-socialist (really he is a staunch communist) friend who will not accept anything resembling reflective, intellectual, and sincere in nature from anyone whose T4 has 6 figures in box 14.

If we were to accept Fasty's argument, then, I, the resident perv of TTP, dare not venture on such a philosophical and intellectual thread. Why not relish the diversity of character in people, their ability to dwell in the gutters and then dance in a ballroom or lecture an audience. So Mel made some American propagandanized movies. Does this mean it is not within himself to create something that can be considered insightful and full of substance? His latest endeavour has promoted discussion from those who normally remain silent regarding such matters.

I like Mel. I wish I was like him. Instead, I am Ballbaby responding to a chap in England, who in three months will be burning his skin on an English beach like all the other Limeys who fancy the olive skin I was naturally born with.
 

Fastshow

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Ballbaby said:
It appears that Mel's history in films and choice in roles is compromising his present credibility. At least it appears that way with Fastshow, my ultra-socialist (really he is a staunch communist) friend who will not accept anything resembling reflective, intellectual, and sincere in nature from anyone whose T4 has 6 figures in box 14.

If we were to accept Fasty's argument, then, I, the resident perv of TTP, dare not venture on such a philosophical and intellectual thread. Why not relish the diversity of character in people, their ability to dwell in the gutters and then dance in a ballroom or lecture an audience. So Mel made some American propagandanized movies. Does this mean it is not within himself to create something that can be considered insightful and full of substance? His latest endeavour has promoted discussion from those who normally remain silent regarding such matters.

I like Mel. I wish I was like him. Instead, I am Ballbaby responding to a chap in England, who in three months will be burning his skin on an English beach like all the other Limeys who fancy the olive skin I was naturally born with.
Balls my old hirsute olive-bothering chum, you never fail to make me laugh. You are, of course, absolutely right in all you say apart from the following; there are bound to be more perverted TTP'ers than you. You can no longer get by on your Greekness alone. You must try harder. It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for and it is they who have stolen your mantle of depravity. They did it quietly, you see. Under cover of darkness. I hate to have broken this to you at this, a time during which your sympathetic and sentimental character is feeling the need to dwell on the innate and abhorrent nature of mankind, but, to bastardise a classic Depeche Mode song lyric, truth is my policy. Honestly. Having danced in gutters, been lectured in a ballroom and dwelled an audience, I also appreciate the sentiment behind your words in that respect. Homer had nothing on you in terms of poetry. His Iliad, as well as the rest of Springfield, be damned.

I also think you're being ambitiously optimistic about May in England. My skin may be fair but it's yet to burn in the rain. Isn't that a good job?

Though I had no idea you were on a first-name (or Christian name if you would prefer) basis with Lord Melvin of Gibson, I do not wish you were him. I'm delighted you're Ballbaby; my friend who saves kittens from trees, Fastshow from cliches, Pasqua from himself, and dabbles in hardcore pornography on the rare occasion the missus lets him near her collection.

This is (only) slightly off topic but forgive me (my trespasses), I haven't actually seen the bastard film.

Still, the most enjoyable thread on TTP for a very long time. The feelgood thread of 2004 so far.
 

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