How do we fix our National Program?

[Dude]

I guess we'll have to be happy with these results (loosing to US in Penos) until such time we have a legitimate domestic pro league that our lads can play in. It just seems way too difficult for our better players to get a job overseas unless they can somehow beat the import limit on rosters. Even if they have enough heritage to be considered "non-imports", it still seems that a Canadian kid needs to be heads and shoulders better than the European counterpart to get a spot.

Can anyone comment on their (if any) experience playing or trying out in Europe? Obviously, the American's solution to this problem was the MLS. I'm sure we could create a league with the same quality of football in Canada, if there was enough money to pay guys...but what do you consider "enough"? Minimal $40K CDN? 50K CDN?

Do you think a successful model can be built in Canada?

 

[Boycs]

It seems to me that the problem is that we don't have enough population centres to support teams. At best we would be looking at a 6 team loop.

To resolve this problem the, theoretically, simplest solution would be to try to convince the Americans to let us have 3 or 4 MLS franchises in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal. My understanding is that currently the MLS teams have to be predominantly Americans, so someone like De Rosario playing for San Jose qualifies as an import. For the Canadian franchises the same rule could apply except that Canadian players would make up the majority of the teams and an american would be an import.

This would provide Canadian soccer with an outlet, and it should be financially sound as the number of teams would be limited and we wouldn't be trying to work to the economics of places like Victoria, as happened in the CSL.

Now the only tricky part is convincing the Americans, which may prove to be a bridge too far.

 

[john]

MLS

The only thing standing in the way of a Canadian team joining the MLS is the cost to get a new team in. Something over a million dollars just to join, and then you would need a stadium, ect... for them to consider you. B.C. would be an obvious choice but we don't have the facility to support the economics of such a team.

As for what is wrong with our National program it comes down to funding, plain and simple! We have no incentive for a 12-13 year old kid to dream about being a professional player here, like they do for hockey. The Americans have the money to make it seem viable to be a player, where as we don't

John

happy regs

 

[Gaffa]

America be damned!

Our biggest problem is we continually compare ourselves to the friggin 'sepos'. Stop it. We'll never have the facilities, money etc that they have. Rather... compare, contrast and try to emulate a country with a similar population, infrastructure, sporting and footballing culture as ourselves. None exist you may claim. Try looking at the Aussies. I've said it before and I'll say it again, in the sporting arena, we could learn a lot from the miserable whinging Aussies.

Hate'embutadmire'emgaffa

 

[Dude]

Our biggest problem may be logistics. Geographically, we are so huge. This makes a domestic league very problematic. With only 6 or 8 center large enough in population capable of supporting a pro franchise, the travel costs would be astronomical!

I like the suggestion of applying for MLS expansion, with similar import restrictions, etc. I think the biggest questions are:

1.) Would the Yanks bite?
2.) Do we have 4 cities that would support such teams?
3.) Is it affordable?

What would be in it for the Yanks, besides expansion fees? The mandate of the MLS is to improve the US Soccer program.

I think cities like Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver could support a team...although we still need a 20,000-seat stadium here. Apparently that could be in the works, located in Surrey.

The money is the big determining factor. Besides the expansion fees, the MLS players aren’t paid too shabby. I understand that the base is $80K USD! If somebody could confirm that, it would shed light. I can't see that working for us here. I can see a CFL type pay structure, but not much beyond. That said, if 6 of 8 Canadian cities can support CFL teams- with 50+ players, coaches, & GMs on the payroll- surely we could muster enough support for 4 teams with 20-25 people on the payroll.

I think 4 teams of MLS caliber players would be enough to make a significant impact on our National Program. Gaffa- what do you know about the Aussie system?

 

[Boycs]

If the Canadian players were paid with Canadian dollars, the economics would work. I beleive that David Stadnyk the Whitecaps owner has been nosing around the idea, but I beleive the stadium may be the biggest problem at the moment.

 

[Skytrain]

Originally posted by Dude-where'smycar?
2.) Do we have 4 cities that would support such teams?

Until support can be nailed down. You have nothing. Support is needed from all. Especially companies, papers, local news and television.

Good example was yesterday with the Canada vs USA game. Did anyone hear any advertising - NO. Was it in the front/back page of any paper - NO, just a little blurb. TV? If you had local cable you had to watch the game on the taped delay.

Sure it was only one game, but it was the same two countries playing against each other in hockey, things would have been a little different

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Simple

Money and shitty coaching. It really is that simple.

 

[Jinky]

The MLS is going down the tube.
Both Florida teams folded in recent weeks.

The Gaffa has the right idea. The Aussies place a high premium on sport in general, not just the games they're good at. That is why they have they have spent the kind of money required to produce world-class athletes in a number of sports. If they were as small-minded as Canadians, they would have put all their resources into producing the world's finest Aussie Rules Football players. How embarassing that would be.

All hail Gaffa's idea.

 

[max blink]

Canada moves up in FIFA rankings

a better FIFA ranking can't hurt.

(Feb 13) (CP) - On the strength of its third-place finish at the Gold Cup, Canada has jumped 19 places to No. 73 in the FIFA world rankings released Wednesday.

It represents Canada's highest rating since May 2001 (No. 71). And it marks Canada's biggest jump in the rankings since the 2000 Gold Cup victory, which vaulted the Canadian men 24 places to No. 61. Canada is now sandwiched between Bosnia-Herzegovina and Congo.

Since the inception of the world rankings in 1993, Canada's highest seeding has been 40th, achieved in December 1996.

Canada's performance at the most recent Gold Cup also its standing in CONCACAF, the confederation that covers North and Central America and the Caribbean.

The Canadians entered the Gold Cup ranked 11th among CONCACAF countries. Now they stand seventh, behind the U.S., Costa Rica, Honduras, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica and Guatemala.

Results from the Gold Cup and African Cup of Nations were the biggest factor in changes in the February rankings.

Only Senegal (No. 45, up 23) and Mali (No. 86, up 22) made bigger gains than Canada. Senegal was the runner-up in the African Cup while host Mali finished a surprise fourth.

Like Canada, African Cup winner Cameroon rose 19 spots to a best-ever No. 18.

The Gold Cup-champion Americans jumped 11 places to No. 13, while runner-up Costa Rica improved four spots to No. 26.

There was only one change in the top 10, with Mexico rising one place to No. 8.

France tops the standings, followed by Argentina, Brazil, Portugal, Colombia, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and Mexico (tied for eighth) and England in 10th.

Ecuador, despite failing to survive the first round of the Gold Cup after losing a lottery, improved one spot to No. 37. And South Korea, beaten 2-1 by Canada in the third-place game at the tournament, also rose one place to No. 41.

Canadian coach Holger Osieck is no fan of the FIFA rankings, arguing his side has been consistently undervalued while other teams have benefited from lesser matches.

The rankings are determined using a complicated formula.

© The Canadian Press, 2002

 

[mehmet]

I just don't know!

The Aussie equation is different. Two factors are in their favour: climate and their population make-up.

They can play soccer all year round, we can't.

They have the Institute of Sport (all sports - that matter world wide - not Aussie Rules), we don't. This was Harry Kewell's ticket to England.

They have a national competition, the NSL, we don't.

Down there, soccer has captured the public's imagination, here it hasn't. The Australian population is made up of more people to whom Footy is a way of life than it is here, or America for that matter.

Canada's situation is entirely unique compared with the rest of the world, with our cold winters and such (then I thing of countries like Sweden and I shake my head). There might be some things to take from the Aussies, but I think our path is tied to the Americans. Might as well accept it.

Don't know the answer but still thinking.

Mehmet.

 

[Dude]

They have the Institute of Sport (all sports - that matter world wide - not Aussie Rules)

Certainly this approach is reflected in the Aussie's recent Olympic successes. I also thing that the people embrase sports as a culture more than here...same in the US for that matter. That may be the biggest difference.

 

[Gaffa]

Mehmet....

Erm...why can't we have an institute of sport. The population make up of the 2 countries is very similar in that there are alot of people from the 'old country'. ie european nations. Just look at the names of the national team players.

Climate...we have it difficult in certain parts of the country. True enough. However hardly anyone kicks a ball during the summer in most european countries, therefore climate becomes just another excuse.

The only real differences are the Aussies place a higher premium on sport in general...and...money.

If Canada continues to 'accept' its little brother status with regard to the Yanks then thats all we'll ever be. The little brother of a child thats generally giggled at by the rest of the footballing playground.

The Gaffa

 

[mehmet]

Institue of Sport?

Gaffa,

Now that I think of it, why not? The only problem is the influence of the so-called 'big league' professional sports. Only relatively small numbers follow the 'lesser' sports. By setting up a so-called "Institute", participants in Soccer (as well as other sports) would be well on their way. Unfortunately, our focus seems to be and always will be Hockey, Football, Baseball. We need to work around that somehow, if we want Soccer to progress in this country. We have to get the politicians of our country on-side, or else we will continue to be the laughing stock of every Olympics.

Don't get me wrong - I love Hockey as much as the next Canuck, but I would love to see the national team beat the Yanks out of a World Cup spot.

You also raise a good point about how Canadians regard Americans. You're right - until we stop acting like the little brother whinging about how the big brother always gets his way, we aren't going to go anywhere in the Footy world.

The climate also has something to do with it.

Mehmet.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Congrats, Canadian Olympic Team

I did'nt think this deserved a new thread, so I put it here.

Gordie Chin of the BBY. Canadians FC, has been named to the Olympic team for 3 games that will be played in March.

Gordie, who is only 18, is a very skilled player, who makes up for his small size with his speed and tough play.

Good luck to Gordie with the Olympic team games, and with still trying to score on HOS in training.

HOS

 

[Keeper]

Tuesday, September 02, 2003
CSA Accepts Osieck Resignation

Ottawa, Ontario – The Canadian Soccer Association today announced it has received and accepted the resignation of Canadian Men’s World Team Head Coach and Technical Director Holger Osieck, effective immediately.

The CSA will immediately begin the search for a replacement. Men’s World Cup Team Assistant Coach Colin Miller will handle the head coaching responsibilities for Canada’s international friendly against Finland on October 11, in Tampere, Finland. A new head coach is expected to be chosen and in place by December, 2003.

“I wish to take this opportunity to thank Holger publicly for his commitment and accomplishments with the Men’s World Cup Team,” said CSA President Andy Sharpe. “Both sides agreed that it was time for us to move in a new direction.”

Osieck was hired by the CSA on September 29, 1998 and in five years posted a record of 20-9-17 in 46 games in charge of the Men’s World Cup Team. In 2000, the team won the CONCACAF Gold Cup and earned a berth in the 2001 FIFA Confederations Cup. Canada reached the semi-final round of World Cup Qualifying in the summer of 2000, defeating Cuba in a playoff but failed to reach the Final Round. In 2002, the team earned a bronze medal at the Gold Cup.

As Technical Director, Osieck oversaw the implementation of the Blueprint for Success and the restructuring of the coaching program.

“There comes a moment in every coach’s career when it is time to move on and that moment has come for me,” said Osieck. “I have truly enjoyed my experiences with the Canadian squad and will look back on many fond memories. I wish the team well in the future.”

 

[Regs]

Did that come out of left field or what?!?!?

The question to banter about now I suppose is who would be best to hire with what is available out there now? Someone 'inhouse'? Another international coach?

Bora is available isn't he? How do you think someone like Twamley will do?

Knowing how the CSA tends to cokc these things up, they will 'promote' Ian Bridge because of the success he has had with the young women's program

Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[trece verde]

left field....

Regs:

On second reading, it sounds like there's something behind this that's been building for a while. "Effective immediately" usually means that there's been some kind of disagreement involved and he's jumped before he gets pushed. The note about the CSA accepting his resignation also tends to imply that they have no qualms about losing him.

Too bad about Holger. I had hopes that he might be able to shake things up a bit and lose a bit of the crustiness that the CSA's doddering old fools had acquired. It sure looked like it with the first Gold Cup run, but things seemed to go awry after a while. Watching him on the sidelines at games, it looked like he wasn't much enjoying the position. Whether because the talent wasn't (or couldn't) play the style he wanted, or just wasn't there, who's to say?

Hopefully, his resignation DOES shake things up. It really sucks being in the soccer third world and not been able to even buy respect, let alone earn any. There is talent in this country, but it has to be dragged out kicking and screaming, and needs to be both recognized and USED. At least Holger didn't let his bench get completely stale the way some Bobaduzzis had done....

The problem is, when you lose an Owen Hargreaves, fingers need to be pointed, and not just at the head coach. One really needs to question the motivation and committment of the bureacrats sitting on their duffs in Ottawa who claim to be running our national soccer program. There is no way that he (Hargreaves) should have even needed to consider playing for another country's national team, even if playing club ball abroad.

Who replaces Holger? Good question. I'd personally like to see somebody like (but not necessarily) Bora with his international pedigree and ability to motivate players. Personally, nothing against Ian Bridge as a person, but he's not a national level coach. Anybody else promoted internally at this point would be in the same position; just another caretaker sitting at the helm prodding things along. If the CSA actually do wake up long enough to check outside (at least in Europe), they'd notice that the thing that most brought attention to the national side wasn't their level of play (or lack thereof), but who they hired as a coach, and where he was from.

gripe, gripe, gripe....

Stew

 

[BlazeArmy]

That's a bit of a shocker. I really think he was pushed, but talking to someone hovering around the team i think the players will be a bit happier. He, apparently was bit of a dick and some individuals didn't get along with him very well.

As for replacements, Bora would be great. Twamley would i think be a pretty good choice but will the CSA be able to take the yawn from the soccer world that annoucement makes. The CSA may feel they have to go out and get a name(allright somewhat of a name) from a successsful program prevouisly. Bridge coached my high school team when i was banished to the island. He didn't make all the trasining sessions but he knew what he was doing. I don't think he would leave the Womens side of the game he knows and thrives in.

Armywhopraystheydon'thireLenardBobbaduzzi

 

[Tee]

The rumor that I heard was that Yallop will be taking over the job.