FVSL Referee Critiques and Feedback

[Get On With It]

Referee improvements/feedback?

It seems there has been some griping and complaining about referees over the past week.

As employees of the league we are here to do a job but like any employee we need positive and negative critisms of our performances. I encourage you to utilize this thread to your advantage.

We as referees like to receive your comments good and bad about what you guys as players are looking for in your matches. What do you really want called and what do you want us to allow to "get on with it".

I know some of referee clan may be offended by the thought of getting ripped here but personally I'd rather fine tune my game so that the bitching and whining stops and I can enjoy the 2 hours on the park like the rest of you. Yes, we get paid but I would guess that none of you treat your day to day employers the way you treat us week in and week out. After all it is a game and we are all there to enjoy it.

So, take advantage of this area and hopefully we can all learn to bring the game to a better level.

Cheers,

GET ON WITH IT!!

 

[robj]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Are you referring to any specific league VMSL, FVSL, WCOTSC?

 

[Jinky]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

I know some of referee clan may be offended by the thought of getting ripped here but personally I'd rather fine tune my game so that the bitching and whining stops and I can enjoy the 2 hours on the park like the rest of you.

Reduce the length of the match from 2 hrs to 90 minutes for a start.
The players in your 120 minute version are probably moaning so much because they are tired.

No need to thank me, it's nothing really.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Jinky,

To be fair to GOWI, we were trained to ref for 2 hours at a time in Guatemala. With the riots that would often occur, it just helped improve our fitness. Consequently, we would be able to cut down on 'incorrect' decisions.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Jinky,

To be fair to GOWI, we were trained to ref for 2 hours at a time in Guatemala. With the riots that would often occur, it just helped improve our fitness. Consequently, we would be able to cut down on 'incorrect' decisions.

Shamrock...so during the riots I guess one is running for his life? Yes, that's a time when fitness makes the difference between winning and losing...an eye. I just hope there was no overtime to follow. Of course, in Guatemala, one never needs to worry about dehydration since the fans are kind enough to throw bags of urine at you.

I'm with GOWI. Shut yer traps and get on with it. Referee errors are common at the highest levels. Do you think they're not going to happen at the shite levels we play at? The fact most divisions have no linsemen and most people have no idea about the rules (i.e.what constitutes a hand ball or an offside) only exacerbates the problem.

At the same time...there are refs who get themselves into trouble because

a) TheRob syndrome: they can't keep up with the play.
b) Yoda syndrome: they, themselves, don't have a strong grasp of the rules. No, elbows to the nose are NOT allowed.
c) KNVB syndrome: they have no idea how to communicate with people. People think that they are all CNUTS.

 

[Rex]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

I felt the referee we had yesterday was very good & fair for both teams of course there was acouple of calls I question but who's perfect. I have to say that was the best ref we have had this year. He kepted up with the play so it was kinda hard to question his call I just wish we could have more refs like that . His name was Nigel.
The game was DFC vs LUFC.

Cheers
Rex

 

[Skip]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

GOWI,

I think starting this thread was a good idea. It is indicative of the integrity that most officials display on and off the pitch, and is an act of good will in my mind. It also takes courage to open yourself, and others up to criticism and feedback. Players should be respectfull of this. For this thread to be useful, comments should be constructive and relevant to the topic.

~Skip

 

[cainy]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Hey skip I suggest you play nicely with my balls

 

[Dude]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Skippy...suggestion: perhaps this and Coach's thread could be merged. Seems that the ref reports are a big topic of interest, and it falls right in line w/ this topic.

 

[canuckboy]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

I find most of the reffing to be fine. I think its up to the coaches to tell their players not to yap at the ref, as this is where most problems begin. On our team, if anyone complains to the ref about something stupid, i.e. argue a throw in, its an automatic team round.

 

[bulljive]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Well I experienced perhaps the worst ref this past weekend. I know a ref will come out and say if you think you can do a better job why don't i go out and do it. I have no intention of ever being a ref so lets make that clear now. I went on a bit of a rant in another thread but i feel this is a better place for it. I don't know if ref's are in major shortage but the ref i had this past weekend should never be givn a whistle again. I rather have the opposing teams coaches go out there and ref then experience that display ever again. ref's GET OFF THE WHISTLE. this guy must wear out the ball in the whistle itleast once a weekend and i don't think everybody needs the 2 minute lecture after or little pep talk your not my friend i don't like you ref the f***in game because you are killing the flow. This ref missed 3 hand balls in the box and the goaltender blatently 10 yards outside the box with the ball in his hand due to the fact that he was carrying on a conversation mid play mind you with an opposing player and didn't see it. I know everybody has an off day but i could tell from the coin toss this guy was going to be a clown. He had to be mid 50-60 and spoke muffled english. he allowed the game to get out of hand due to his own actions not the play on the field. He ended the game in the 83 minute, we all thought about 10 minutes extra time would be played due to all the stoppages. It wasn't nasty between the players but I am just sick and tired of the few ref's i emphasize few because I have found most of the referees are doing a really good job this year need to learn the fans are not her to watch you they are here to watch the game make yourself invisible play advantage and call the fouls. We don't need the talk unless you are handing out a card. This is the end of my rant and i apologize for it's length we ended up tieing this game so it's not a bitter report because we lost
signed
discouraged and frustrated

 

[Rigger15]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

I have found most of the referees are doing a really good job this year need to learn the fans are not her to watch you they are here to watch the game make yourself invisible play advantage and call the fouls.
signed
discouraged and frustrated

Bulljive,

What advantages do you want to let go and what ones do you want called? Sometimes playing an advantage sets a bad tone as to what is ok or not. Sometimes taking away an advantage leads to frustration on the attacking teams’ behalf but sometimes allowing the advantage leads to more immediate danger as the player fouled is the one who is most volatile at that point. Is he able to see the advantage helping his team or is he hell bent on immediate retribution? As for the pep talks some refs will quickly have a quite word but sometimes the quick word leads to an all out speech due to the player on the receiving end rebutting every thing going in his ear.

 

[bulljive]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Rigger,

I want advantage to go on when there is a clear advantage sometimes if its a harsh violent tackle or no clear advantage you have to blow it down. Also if the play is getting chippy it needs to be blown down to relax things maybe hand out a card, but this ref played no advantage period. As for the lectures a quick word here or there is fine but stopping every play give me a break no joke this happened nearly 30 times. It would be fair saying not 1 minute went by at any point in the game where the whistle was not blown. It was by no means a rough game and to not play advantage ever if you blow the whistle that match just kills a game. I hope i never run into him as my ref again because I look forward to my game all week and he ruined the fun.

 

[Skip]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Skippy...suggestion: perhaps this and Coach's thread could be merged. Seems that the ref reports are a big topic of interest, and it falls right in line w/ this topic.

What?.....are you trying big-league me here?!?!

I can do that if you and others wish, but I think that the two deserve some seperation. As I see it, GOWI's thread deals with referees specifically, while Coach was initiating discusion on discipline.

Perhaps I shall consult with the great moderator minds of TTP to get more insight. Until then...piss off!

 

[Dude]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Perhaps I shall consult with the great moderator minds of TTP to get more insight. Until then...piss off!

I'm not one of them. Don't want to big league anyone.

Pissing off,

Besides...the Benefactor is on,

And I'm too busy for this,

Dude.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

GOWI...
I know other local sports (i.e. basketball) follow certain measures to assure that all refs are on the same page to ensure consistency and competency.

For instance...
1) There are monthly meetings where mechanics and education are discussed.
2) Minutes of the meetings and a run down of the education session are mailed or e-mailed to all referees.
3) There are numerous clinics throughout the year.
4) Referees are assessed/evaluated and rated "A", "AA", or "AAA"
5) Top rated officials go do the top rated games. Lower rated officials do the games that no one else wants to do. Shite ones are only asked to ref when there is a shortage.
6) The allocator also takes into account rivalry and history between teams, as well as the importance of the game when deciding on who the referee is.

What measures are in place for soccer?

I look at basketball officials in BC and I know numerous of them referee in the CIAU/CIS finals and some are invited overseas to World Championships and Olympics. I don't see that room for growth in our local soccer officials. You have the odd Paul Ward who is moving up the referee ranks, but the majority of them referee for their $50 per game and never work on improving. There appears to be no real push or reason to improve their game!

 

[Get On With It]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Dial 911,

There are two referee chapters here in the Lower Mainland (Vancouver and Fraser Valley). Both hold monthly referee education meetings where they talk about certain topics for about an hour. Sometimes they bring in video clips to get a more uniform discussion to get everybody on the same page with regards to foul selection and penalities for said fouls. Because of the human factor everybody sees things slightly differently and there is never a clear black and white answer to each foul or non-foul.

As for upgrading, that's a mess in it's self. Each assessor tells you something different after your match. You do your best to take the constants and work on them. The process to upgrade is slow and tedious not to mention costly. Yes, I am aware I get $50 bucks to ref but each assessment costs $40 and you need at least 4 at a certain score to get upgraded and thats after you pass your course which runs you another $100. If you don't achieve that grade on your assessments you need to keep at them until you get the 4 to upgrade. Than you add the fitness standards, yes there are standards to upgrade. And for what? The political mess with assignments here is less than appealing to a new or upgrading referee. Your either in the circle or out of the circle despite your best intentions.

I know of a FIFA Referee here in BC who stepped down from the FIFA standing becasue he passed his fitness component and some other FIFA's didn't but still got assignments over him. The old boys network is everywhere from who runs the league to who runs the assigning to who runs the team. Politics aside and more people would be inclined to spend the dime and time to get better!

As for keeping up the standard of referees or getting the standard to improve I would suggest telling those who decide who gets what games (who is doing good and bad work for you). If the same names appear week to week on the A list and the B list, I would hope common sense would prevail to those at the helm.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

Beautiful info. Thanks GOWI.

 

[Frevo]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

You know, I think I have heard every excuse in the book about why referees have bad games. Be it what constitutes a playable advantage? or that we the players don't understand how complicated all the different rules are, offsides for instance. The players yap and don't know the rules ext. Throw in the human factor and all the constant variables and not a ref in the world has to take responsibility for calling a crap game. I can't honestly tell you that I have had two referees ref back to back weekends where I didn't think that the rules must have changed again. Maybe the reason so many players "don't know the rules" is because the referees change them week in and week out. If they would just bloodywell stick to some for of consistant enforcement of the laws then the players would know what to expect. Players yap out of frustration for any number of reasons granted, but don't shrug the responsibility of having to do a decent job on things like "the human factor". I understand that it becomes a much easier task with assistants running the lines (which I still can't believe we don't have) but own up to the mistakes made and then maybe we'd see some improvements league wide and some consistant rules on a regular bassis. I mean it IS a job still. If all they wanted to do is go for a run or watch a game they could run laps around the field while watching and let qualified people do the job. That's my piece anyways...

 

[STD]

Re: Referee improvements/feedback?

I think for the most part the refs are doing a decent job and even though I do not always agree with the calls I can't remember too many times I have lost a game because of a bad call. The most important thing for me is consistency in the game. I prefer refs that will let the little things go so that we can get some flow to the game but if you are going to call something at the beginning of the game I would like to see it called in the second half as well so that we know what to expect.

Here is one I would like to know what you think. A couple of weeks ago I was going to clear a ball out of the box when another player bent down to head the ball. My automatic reaction was to pull back so I didn't boot the kid in the head so I asked the ref for a call for a dangerous play. The ref said he let it go because the ball ended up in our keepers hands but the next time I should just go for the ball. I know next time I would still do the same thing rather than boot someone in the head. I would have liked the ref to stop the play because I don't think you should ever play an advantage in a defending teams box and that kid still does not know he did anything wrong. The call never affected anything and it really doen't matter but I am bored and was wondering what refs think about it and if I am wrong about what a dangerous play is.