Election Night Bush vs Kerry....

[Gurps]

Do you think John Kerry is more (read: "ultra") conservative than Stephen Harper?

John Kerry's economic platform is based on conservative economics. So is Stephen Harper's. However, John Kerry's economic platform is based much more on free market economics than the Conservative party of Canada. I am not going to write out an essay comparing both parties, however, having done much research on the Democratic party in the US for one of my political science classes, as well as examining the poltical platform of the conservative party of Canada, American democrats believe in a much more conservative approach to government than even the Conservative party of Canada. I wonder if John Kerry would have implemented a universal health care system in the US like we have in Canada, and if the Conservative party of Canada would have wiped out our National medicare program?

 

[Dapotayto]

IMO, you guys picked the right guy who stands for the important things that the majority of Americans (and Canadians) feel are important to the make-up and core values of their country

What exactly are the important things you refer to? Unilateral military action based on lies and fear-mongering? Give me a fcuking break.

 

[Keeper]

No, no, no. You don't get off that easy with an hypothetical situation like that.

There's no way on Earth the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada would abolish our national health program. Not because they wouldn't want to, but because it'd be political suicide. It has less to do with political ideology as it does political survival. It's the same reason the capital punishment issue will never be reopened, and the abortion issue will continue to have a lid slammed on it.

You said John Kerry would be considered "ultra-conservative" in Canada. In comparison to Stephen Harper & his Conservatives, you can't honestly say that's a fact. An opinion perhaps -- which is what (if I weren't so German) I was trying to take the piss out of you for.

 

[BJB]

As long as they are only somewhat unique.

I believe you owe this somewhat croat a couple of beers still!!

oh ya so i stay on topic here... Bush is a Moron!

 

[Gurps]

Anyways, back on topic. The next few years will be interesting to say the least.

 

[Gurps]

No, no, no. You don't get off that easy with an hypothetical situation like that.

There's no way on Earth the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada would abolish our national health program. Not because they wouldn't want to, but because it'd be political suicide. It has less to do with political ideology as it does political survival. It's the same reason the capital punishment issue will never be reopened, and the abortion issue will continue to have a lid slammed on it.

Exactly the point I am trying to make. John Kerry would go along and support those conservative policies in the US. He would never be able to implment those polices in Canada. Thus, he has to act in a much more conservative manner than Stephen Harper would have to in Canada. Whether that is what he feels personally is moot. I am not a mind reader. I do not know what Stephen Harper thinks, nor John Kerry. I can only judge the party's by their political platform. The conservative party of Canada could not act, and would have no hope of being elected, if they implmented the same conservative platforms that the US democrats have in their political platform. All I am saying is that if John Kerry became a Canadian Citizen, and started a party based on the same poltical platform he is running on in the US, it would be to the right of the Conservative Party of Canada, based on economic theory and the ideoligical spectrum. That is based on examing both parties political platforms.You even supported my argument with your post. Thanks

 

[djones]

Wow, you are on coming on here and basing your argument on the comedy network? You sure you are not American?

Not entirely. It was based on a political conversation between Stewart and a member of Kerry's political staff. Although it had some really funny bits, it was more to do with the breakdown and failures of the Kerry campaign. Thanks for jumping to conclusions, though. Sure your not American, kettle?

Signed
Pot.

 

[Smiles]

Reccos,

I will bite. I thought you might find this interesting that over 70% of the ballets from Iraq went for Bush. The poor soldiers as you call them support him by an overwhelming majority. According to your thoughts should'nt that number be the other way around?

 

[Smiles]

One more thing, as far as the National Guard and Bush go you don’t log hours in fighter planes if you are trying to dodge a war. You get some desk Job. If he had all this power to stay out of wars don’t you think he would have went somewhere safe like Oxford and met with Bill?

 

[Rivermouth]

Loving it. Most of the people writing in just don’t get it. The democrats are all about big government and higher taxes. No one with any business sense votes for them. Unless you work in a union or work for the government or are a total loser looking for free hand outs (10 people watch one person works) (case in point Washington State biggest employer is the state, state goes to Kerry) there just is no reason to vote for the kids who lost at dodge ball in school. They are the party of entitlements. We will give you this, this, and this; and by the way you are also a victim. You are not responsible for yourself not having a job or that you sit and smoke dope on the couch all day; that is the governments fault because there just is no opportunity out there. We have 10,000 Mexicans a day running into this country for an opportunity at the dream. There is no job shortage in this country there is an effort shortage by all the so called victims. Many people hate Bush for his faith in God. As many other countries turn away from God Americans keep God close and many vote on moral issues which the democrats have no platform. Call the middle of the U.S. dumb if that’s what makes things easier but the bottom line is hard work, Morals, and keeping God in American life is very important to us. I find it interesting that Canada lets the movie fake hype 911 come into the country for viewing but will not let fox news the #1 news station in the U.S. be broadcast there. Why?

I voted for Bush

Profile
Small business owner
College graduate from WWU and SFU
Belief in God
Family Man and Community helper

Let me know where I went wrong and why I need the government to do things for me that I can do for myself?

Cheers,

Smiles

Let me ask you, does a person who takes a 5 TRILLION dollar surplus and turns it into a 2 TRILLION dollar DEFICIT seem like a conservative or a "liberal" to you?!? Let me remind you that it was/is the "Great Slayer of Economic Prosperity" himself, Curious George W., that has single handedly reduced the world economy to near rubble. No business would support a manager who encouraged and oversaw this kind of monolithic financial catastrophe.

"Democrats for higher taxes"?! Not likely. It was Democrat Bill Clinton that balanced the U.S. budget and created a surplus, which is the mark of a fiscal conservative. "Party of entitlements"?! What?!! The Democrats and the Republicans are both parties of the fiscal and social right wing, when compared to the other G8 countries. The only difference between the both of them is that the Democrats believe that ALL Americans should be entitled to the American Dream, not just the buddies of the Republican financial elite. Both agree that attaining the American Dream means working hard and trying to better oneself, with as little interference from government as possible. The Dems believe, however, that there are times when the State has to assist its capable citizens in getting a "hand up", whereas the Republicans think that the American Dream only belongs to them and their magnificently wealthy friends.

Let me remind you that it was a Democrat that assisted the African American signups of voters in the U.S. South, in the early 60's. It was Democrats that were being lynched and murdered by those that opposed this "integration" effort during the Civil Rights era. Though Abraham Lincoln (which, if I'm not mistaken, was a Republican), "freed" the slaves, it was Democrat John F. Kennedy that actually put that freedom into action.

If the Republicans had their way, the whole world would be chanting and dancing with snakes as a sign of devotion to their narrow version of God.

Nothing like espousing good Christian values, while blowing people's brains out to obtain oil profits, while eroding the financial ability of a nation to defend itself, to line one financial pockets, and the bank accounts of your friends.

Great!

Yes, the sarcasm is intended.

 

[canuckboy]

I can't believe that from the exit polls the issues that carried the day for Bush were abortion, gay rights and religion. Christ what year are we in? Mabye a better question is what year is the american south in? I understand (but not agree),if you choose Bush over Kerry for security issues, but for religious ones? There are states in the south that want to teach creationism and BAN darwinism. I used to have hope for the American people.

 

[Rivermouth]

One more thing, as far as the National Guard and Bush go you don’t log hours in fighter planes if you are trying to dodge a war. You get some desk Job. If he had all this power to stay out of wars don’t you think he would have went somewhere safe like Oxford and met with Bill?

No, he was too busy snorting coke off of toilet bowl lids and slamming back tequila sunrises at the local bar. In his defence, he was too fcuking WASTED to find his way to Oxford, (or back to Yale, where he almost failed out).

Lucky for him, his Dad saved him. In that respect, it's not his fault that he dodged the Vietnam War, he was just being respectful to his Dad, who didn't WANT him to go.

 

[Sliver]

I just found this little graphic on another site and I thought it fit in nicely with the discussion going on in this thread.

 

[canuckboy]

Ahh rivermouth very, very, very, well put.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Hey, all I've got to say is that I never knew that there were so many people on TTP who could express their opinions/facts in such a coherent and intelligent manner...or maybe it just seems this way after reading so much crap in the FVSL Div.1 threads.

Anyhow, keep up the discussion people. Regs...is there a Politics thread? I think it's time for one!

And..how come I never knew that there were American ballets in Iraq?

 

[Gurps]

George Bush is dead set against affirmative action in US colleges. The funny thing is, he did not have the grades to get into Yale university, BUT was granted admission due to the fact that one of his parents had attented the school. Yale reserves spots for students whose parents have attented the University. Thus, he got in not based on his grades, but his family background, and yet he against affirmative action. He took a spot from another student whom had a better academic record then him (I know, wouldn't take much). but then comes on TV saying that this type of admission policy is unjust.....only in America.

 

[Dial 9-1-1]

Sliver...that list of yours basically says it all! Beautiful!

To me and most people around the world (according to polls), the fact that Bush is back for four more years is mind boggling. I used to think that Reagan getting in for the 2nd term was ludicrous. Yet, Reagan is considered one of the greatest US Presidents ever. In fact, there are those who argue that Clinton's success was simply due to Clinton riding the coat-tails of Reagan/(Bush Sr).

I remember that someone posted a while back that the Americans were leaders, not followers, but I think it's pretty obvious, if you look at how Americans have voted during a war, that they find it necessary to follow and support their presidential leader. Voting against him is almost considered treason. Yes, I know, it's an exaggeration. But, Americans get led by the nostrils whenever there is a terrorist alert, the same way they followed the "Minutes until Midnight" clock during the Cold War. I think it's not surprising that so many Americans are making the move north of the 49th. Maybe a realtor can support my claims.

Still, Canadians boggled my mind as well by voting for a regime that ripped them off so royally through the sponsorship scandal. Canadians had a chance to tell politicians that cheating would not be tolerated; instead, the voting public told the politicians: screw us as much as you like. We'll vote for whoever scares us the least. There are sheep on both sides of the border.

 

[canuckboy]

I just shudder to think what would have happend to the world if Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield were in charge during the Cuban missile crisis.

 

[Aves]

Ahh rivermouth very, very, very, well put.

hear! hear!

but don't forget , george w. was a sinner then

just convert and you too can absolve all your past.

its all about forgiveness and compassion

 

[max blink]

Smiles:

Congratulations on Bush winning the election and being amongst the majority that put him there.

A truly democratic country is governed by the principles and beliefs of the majority of its citizens. So democracy is at work in the USA. But you need to stop talking about the USA as if it belongs to you, because even though they lost the election, the USA belongs to those that voted for Kerry just as much. Unfortunately, they don't get to shove their policies down your throat, it's you and the Republicans that get to do that to everyone else for another four years, including those of us who don't even live in the USA. That's the reason that outsiders are interested you cheese-brain, because no other domestic election has as much effect on the rest of the world. Why? -- because of your maverick foreign policy, your "leadership" in world affairs that supercedes the United Nations, the world's best attempt at making global decisions with international representation. Bush won't follow the UN anymore than other "stupid" global agendas like the Kyoto Protocol or the International Courts of Law. Leadership? What a true world leader he is, you must be proud.

Your views and assumptions, especially when you so eloquently speak for all Americans, show how you really don't understand the reality of the divisions in your country and the multitude of cultures and beliefs in American society as a whole. The same goes for that jackass who wrote that letter to the editor in Tampa. How many citizens did the USA have in 1776 compared to today? He'd be wise to start learning some Spanish.

Of course you have the right to say "Merry Christmas", but do you really think that it affects your rights when you can't force everyone else to say "Merry Christmas" too? Because that is what you do when you try to legislate your cultural identity on every other US citizen. But of course, the cultural and religious identities of the founding fathers of the United States of America, which happen to coincide with your own, have more value than those of later arriving immigrants who also become citizens? According to you, the ideas that were there first are "kings of the castle". However, to say that all people must conform to the beliefs and values of the majority goes against the freedoms that are outlined in your constitution and bill of rights. In fact, when you mix your intolerance with the religious issues in this election campaign (no gay marriage, no abortion), "your" USA is akin to other fascist theocracies, like the current Iranian government or the former Taliban government in Afghanistan.

max