Nationals [2006 Challenge Cup] Senior Men's National Championship

[Regs]

OD,

What exactly are you trying to say? I thought stoon's comment was well said.

 

[One Dart]

Point was that stoon made it sound like ref's shouldn't call things according to the laws of the game but how the teams want the game to be called. So if the two teams moan and whine about things early on the ref shouldn't call a lot of fouls? What about if one team does? I'm not saying that every single little thing that is in the laws of the game should be called, discretion is definitely necessary. Having not been at the game I can't comment on how good or bad a job the ref did but prior to stoon the only comment made about the ref was from a guy from the losing team and an impartial observer. One felt he was good and one felt he sucked.

 

[Regs]

Fair enough - I didn't think he meant that the player's were having a moan - more like hard tackles being called fouls and such. Most of us have all been there and know the frustration... and it definitely doesn't help usually when the ref is being assessed - that's been my experience anyways.

Who was reffing anyways? Soulds like Uppal or worse yet, Walks.

 

[stoonsoccer]

Just to simplify what I was saying about the Ref and Laws of the game. If you are Reffing a U-6 girls game and a young lady handles the ball inside her own penalty area you would hardly red card her even though the rules say you should. The rules are a guideline and should be used as that. The players will show accepted standards and how they want the laws inforced.

Players will tell you quite quickly how they want the game to be played and what level of physical contact they are comfortable with. The game of soccer is most beautiful when it is played closest to the edge. I would have thought you BC boys would appreciate a good pysical game and not that boredom that the Ref yesterday put us all through.

Just as a reference point I am a class 1 Referee and have officiated at Nationals before.

 

[rusty210210]

Regardless of who the ref was, he did definitely take any flow away from the game.

There was a point in I believe the 1st half where the ref decided to lecture a Ottawa player because the ball had rolled a couple of turns forward from where a defensive zone free kick was supposed to be (they were on turf after all). So the player pulled the ball back 2 ball-lengths and the ref goes bonkers because he did not pull the ball back the ONE extra turn it should have gone. The player looked dumbfounded, and in turn smashed the ball 70 yards down field into the back fencing for a goal kick. I guess that extra turn was the difference.

The Calgary fans were screaming "its not about you ref, its not about you," and I tended to agree with them on that one.

As an aside, that Ottawa team was the same team that beat the USL Toronto Lynx in a club tournament a few weeks back. Perhaps not the full side, but still. Imagine the Whitecaps even entering a club touney, let alone losing.

 

[whataboutbob]

The banquet was not supposed to be a banquet, but a social event. A banquet would have cost BCSA around $20,000 for around 600 people, a fancy convention centre, catered, speeches, etc....

Sapp wanted to host a social function. I didn't want to go into it but BCSA really screwed that one up as well.

1. Teams were to arrive starting at 3 PM for drinks, pool, shuffle board, socializing. Buffet at 6 PM. Buses started arriving at 4:30 and left NB behind.

2. Sapp was told at 5:45 PM that buses were to start leaving at 8:30. 8:30 was a little early, I thought, but buses actually started at 6:45! Yes 6:45!

The 2 BCSA reps in attendance; 2 wasted scanks looking for a party other than doing their job, did nothing about this even when I confronted them. Do something! Talk to the CSA rep, anything!

33 volunteers fed over 500 people in less than an hour. 95% of the players were gone by 7:30. Manitoba were the only ones that stayed and I applaud them. Like most soccer guys, when you get talking to them, they're a great group of guys. Too bad no one could socialize on Sat because of the bus situation (and game times).

So at 10 PM when everything was cleared out. The 2 BCSA scanks were still hitting on some Sapp players when I thanked the volunteers. I basically told them to shut up so I could congratulate Peter Vranjkovic for organizing the entire event. I proceeded to rip into BCSA and SFC for their brutal effort - at which point the 2 immediately left.

 

[Regs]

Is there a mail-in process for Team of the Year because I would like to start a campaign right now for Sapperton quoting the post above

Well done WAB, sorry I didn't make it - cheque in the mail... once you provide a facsimilie of a self-adressed envelope

 

[whataboutbob]

Sapp always comes through.....

After the social, we had run out of almost everything except some buns, salmon, italian sausages, salad and bottled water.

Hand it to Sapp's men and ladies volunteers who decided to take the leftovers down to the downtown east-end.
Out of the back of a pick-up truck, we fed well over 100 homeless people right off the street that night. Old, young, men, women, homeless, prostitutes, and all drug addicts. I was blown away by how thankful these people were for they were all starving. They were running from down the streets just to get some food. Lining up peacefully, waiting their turn, and just really thankful of our efforts.

It made me momentarily forget about the disappointments of the tourney pretty quick.

 

[whataboutbob]

Well done WAB, sorry I didn't make it - cheque in the mail... once you provide a facsimilie of a self-adressed envelope

But you don't have a fax....ahhhh....

 

[Sandman]

WAB for mayor......

In all seriousness, that is very impressive. well done!

If the Nationals were in May....it would have been an all BC final.

Sandman.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

The Ref in this game did not technically do anything to blow the game but we all should know that the game is not played in a book. His calls were technically correct but completrely unneccessary. He made senseless call after senseless call and never allowed the game to actually happen.

As an official it is part of your role to judge in the early game how the teams want to play and govern the game within the rules to get the best game possible for the 2 teams. He was only concerned with the rules and of course not giving the Assessor anything to to correct him on. He did allow the Spirit of the game to enter into his officiating!!! He set the tone at the 30 second mark with a warning talk over a nothing foul.

I watched every game that both these teams played and was looking forward to a great wide open game as they are both very offensive in nature. This is where the Ref really screwed this final.

Balls. Assessment or no assessment.....there was a lot going on that needed to be dealt with. You're basically saying....he should have let them kick the **** out of each other and see what happens. To be honest, neither team had a player(s) who could take control of the game......this had nothing to do with the ref. Rules are rules and it is very easy to have flow in a game when the teams, as well as the ref, allow it to happen. In this game, neither team did.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

OD,

What exactly are you trying to say? I thought stoon's comment was well said.

No it wasn't. The players didn't let the game happen. The was there to enforce that they didn't. And he did. Did you think the ref messed the final up?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Just to simplify what I was saying about the Ref and Laws of the game. If you are Reffing a U-6 girls game and a young lady handles the ball inside her own penalty area you would hardly red card her even though the rules say you should. The rules are a guideline and should be used as that. The players will show accepted standards and how they want the laws inforced.

Players will tell you quite quickly how they want the game to be played and what level of physical contact they are comfortable with. The game of soccer is most beautiful when it is played closest to the edge. I would have thought you BC boys would appreciate a good pysical game and not that boredom that the Ref yesterday put us all through.

Just as a reference point I am a class 1 Referee and have officiated at Nationals before.

I don't give a **** if you're a National referee. Your U-6 comparison was shocking. Good refs don't let the players 'tell you' how you should ref a game. You should be consistent in every game and it doesn't hurt to know player tendencies......however, that isn't always possible.

BTW, if I wanted to watch a 'good physical game', I'll go watch a lacrosse game or even a hockey game. Their rules are more suited to you, Stool. I know lots of Class 1 refs who are mince. As mentioned, the players ruined that game yesterday as they were more concerned of playing a stiffling type of game......very little creativity(despite being talented teams) and too much stupidity. The ref did a good job trying to deal with this stupidity.

 

[stoonsoccer]

I have never once said that I wanted the players to kick the shite out of each other. If you cannot comprehend that the rules are called diferently for different levels of play or even for the region that the game is being played in I don't think you have enough knowledge of the beautiful game at any level worth explaining it to you. EX: Diving is a cautionable offense in most of the world and in the rule book. If you cautioned diving in Serie A a game would last about 10 minutes as there would not be enough players left to continue.

In the final the Ref blew his whistle every time 2 players ran past each other. The flow of the game was broken every 20 seconds and made it nearly impossibe to get any sustained pressure going. He also ignored any consistant infringement fouls that happened during the game. EX: The central defender for Ontario-Simon had only one way to stop anyone - He would always step in front of them. While the Ref called this most times he did not deal with it!! A Caution here would have opened up the game and both teams would have been forced to try to win the game.

Your comment about what good Refs do to the game is a complete joke. GREAT Refs go a game with the sole purpose of being part of a great game played within the confines of the Laws of the Game. If you truly believe that the Ref should Referee all games the same you obviously have never played at a high level. A foul in Div 4 is very different than a foul in Premier.

 

[colemanj]

Lot of talk about a referee that I didn't even notice? Looked like a classic battle of well organized but tired 4-4-2 and 2-4-1-3 sides. The holding mid-fielder of Ontario stifled all Calgary attempts at passing through the mid-field, and it looked like Calgary was too worn out to be able to get their outside midfielders and backs deep to break them down at the back.

Calgary's little midfielder was a gem though, he was really the only entertainment out there. All in all disappointing as everyone has said, might have been a better game on day one or two?

 

[Rangerforever]

you obviously have never played at a high level.

Yeah!

 

[Captain Shamrock]

I have never once said that I wanted the players to kick the shite out of each other. If you cannot comprehend that the rules are called diferently for different levels of play or even for the region that the game is being played in I don't think you have enough knowledge of the beautiful game at any level worth explaining it to you. EX: Diving is a cautionable offense in most of the world and in the rule book. If you cautioned diving in Serie A a game would last about 10 minutes as there would not be enough players left to continue.

In the final the Ref blew his whistle every time 2 players ran past each other. The flow of the game was broken every 20 seconds and made it nearly impossibe to get any sustained pressure going. He also ignored any consistant infringement fouls that happened during the game. EX: The central defender for Ontario-Simon had only one way to stop anyone - He would always step in front of them. While the Ref called this most times he did not deal with it!! A Caution here would have opened up the game and both teams would have been forced to try to win the game.

Your comment about what good Refs do to the game is a complete joke. GREAT Refs go a game with the sole purpose of being part of a great game played within the confines of the Laws of the Game. If you truly believe that the Ref should Referee all games the same you obviously have never played at a high level. A foul in Div 4 is very different than a foul in Premier.

It's beside the point that I haven't played at a high level and I ONLY have my level 4 or is it 3?

So now you're telling me that fouls have categories now? Premier, Division One, Division Two, Division Three(if we had one).....Hmmmmm Let me ask you this....What does a Division One CAT foul look like as opposed to a division one foul? How about a division two CAT? Are they club affiliated fouls that are only applicable to that particular squad?

Thanks for the laughs, Stoolpusher. One day I'll be a GREAT ref just like you. BTW, how many of your friends assessed you on your way up to you level one? It's all about angles.......and who you know apparently.


Level 3 or 4 Ref

 

[cerebral smallsy]

don't even get him started on hand balls...

 

[NobbyStiles]

Lot of talk about a referee that I didn't even notice? Looked like a classic battle of well organized but tired 4-4-2 and 2-4-1-3 sides. The holding mid-fielder of Ontario stifled all Calgary attempts at passing through the mid-field, and it looked like Calgary was too worn out to be able to get their outside midfielders and backs deep to break them down at the back.

Calgary's little midfielder was a gem though, he was really the only entertainment out there. All in all disappointing as everyone has said, might have been a better game on day one or two?

Absolutely correct assessment. Its one of the reasons we were p o'ed that the game was moved to a VERY narrow (68yds by my estimate) field from the grass #5 where we thought we could get round them. We are used to playing on 120x80yds and this plastic field was too small on the day against a quick Ont midfield. Congrats to them as they deserved it on the day, but wouldn't mind another crack!!

Nic Reyes is a superb player and is off to Bahrain for a tryout with a pro club there run by an ex-Cgy coach. Hope he makes it and invites me over for a holiday in February!!

Nobby Stiles

 

[NobbyStiles]

Fair enough - I didn't think he meant that the player's were having a moan - more like hard tackles being called fouls and such. Most of us have all been there and know the frustration... and it definitely doesn't help usually when the ref is being assessed - that's been my experience anyways.

Who was reffing anyways? Soulds like Uppal or worse yet, Walks.

He was from Quebec and didn't like that we beat them the day before!!

BTW - just for a laugh CSA got the Jubilee and Challenge silver medals all mixed up and we had to have a quick party with the BC team to sort it out!! Still missing a few. Muppets!!