Div 1 [VMSL Div 1] Predictions, Results & Banter 2016/2017

[Stringer]

So coming to this weekend, we do have a very interesting and rare table.
1) Tigers (Rino) 15 points
2) CCB 15 points
3) Norvan 14 points
4) Campo Atletico 14 points (Division 2)
5) GN 12 points (Division 2)
6) Bingers 12 points
7) Romania 11 points
8) Fury (Rino) 11 points (Division 2)
9) Vancouver (Rino) 10 points
10) South Delta 6 points
11) Metropolitan 4 points

As they say, numbers do not lie.
I) First of all, I would like to know where all the TTP Pundits who predicted and claimed that Campo Atletico would not be able to compete in Division 1? The numbers show that all the Division 1 teams are competitive and belong to this division.
The numbers do not lie.

Furthermore, when we see the clubs that were relegated in Division 2, we find very interesting results. Sarajevo is in 4th place with a game in hand and 4 points behind a former Division 3 team. Shaheen is in 3rd place.

The evidence is irrefutable. As we claim in the past, there is no longer a great divide between Division 2 and Division 1. In fact, some games in Division 2 are more contested than in Division 1.

Many teams in Division 2 are deserving and could compete well in Division 1.

There is a bottleneck that is holding Division 2 teams.

How do we fix this bottleneck?

II) Second of all, in Division 1 we have a very strange table. A rather unique table with 80% of teams within 5 points after 1/3 of the season has taken place. This is weird, strange, and rather unique.

The question begs itself. Why this is happening? What can be giving this strange results and distribution?
What else is unique and rare in this division?

The answer is obvious. Never in the history of the VMSL we had three teams controlled and managed by the same club and group of people.

Folks, this is not the story of three different teams in a division running independently from the beginning. We have a very incestuos relationships. People are holding multiple roles among teams from Manager, Coach, Club Director, Club President. To further the complexity and interbreding we have family relationships.

This is not normal. Nor should it be tolerated in league that strives to have healthy competition and a reputation for doing things properly. Imagine how absurd would it be for a team official of lets say Norvan to go a sit on the bench of GN during a game with Bingers.

Or how weird and inappropriate would it be for the coach of CCB to have information sent from the president of Romania.

Or how strange and abnormal would be for the coaches of South Delta and Metropolitan to have common information shared among them during a game and during the week in training.

We all do recognize this as non desirable, unethical, and unfair to the other teams.

Now this is what is exactly happening among those three Rinos teams just by the fact that the same people are holding multiple roles in the club both officially and un-officially.

It is wrong and it creates weird results.

The issue is that even if those people would try to separate their roles and act in an ethical and fair manner, it is impossible because the amount of information that they possess is in their brain. This in itself gives them and advantage and is in itself automatic collusion.

What if they separate their roles? President of the club is just the president. Director is just director. The roles are clear. No communication between them what so ever. The problem remains.

Without getting too obscure, organizations and entities finds ways to do what it is better for them. Coaches, managers, players do understand what is better for their organization. Which is what we saw, when Fury pull out their good players so Tigers could tie and win that game.




Once gain, if I see one of their teams ruining the promotion for the other one, or the other two making sure that the other one gets relegated. I will be the first one to apologize.

How do we solve this problem and unfair situation?

It can be done. We have deserving teams and very capable teams in Division 2 who can join us on Division 1. We can have a rule as in Premier of only one team per club.

I know that people wanted to put this rule, but for some reason it got buried in the last AGM

This is the normal and fair situation to have in a competitive league.

After constant reading of your nonsense, I really do hope Rinos management decide to collude and f**k you royally

I know Rino's management wouldn't think of doing it because they are stand up people but I really really hope they consider the idea

 

[Soccer Coach]

You do know he'll take this seriously though right...?

It is certainly a possibility that indeed this was just a move to protect and camouflage the advantages and possibility of collusive agreements.

The coach of the Tigers could have asked the players just to keep possession. The Tigers are the top goal scorers in the league of all the team, and suddenly they do not score a single goal. We could indulge in this type of thinking to no end.

The issue is that we will never know. The possibilities and endless, and just the fact that the possibility exists is enough for the league to consider changes to the rules.

As I said, I will not push the issue further, and I will leave it, and I am apologizing to them for the posts given the result as they have given Campo the lead.

However, we should not be in a situation where this could happen. It is like giving a team the possibility of appointing an assistant referee or central referee or given the opportunity to make the offside calls themselves. Just the fact that the possibility of doing something gives them an advantage is unfair to the other teams but also to unfair to themselves. As they are put in the ackward position of being accused of not following ethical behaviour.

This might seem trivial, but it actually touches in deep philosophical issues regarding the effects of the existance choice and free will of humans.


I do sincerely hope that they become more careful when allowing people to sit in their technical area. Even if they are not doing wrong (and likely they are not), just the optics of perception is not fine and gives room to speculation.

I do appreciate that they fought hard on this game and gave us the lead in the table. Good for them to fight and let the game competitive.

 

[dezza]

FYI in most of European amateur leagues, the assistant referees are volunteers from the clubs that are playing and they do call offsides.

 

[ARMYGEDDON]

It is certainly a possibility that indeed this was just a move to protect and camouflage the advantages and possibility of collusive agreements.

The coach of the Tigers could have asked the players just to keep possession. The Tigers are the top goal scorers in the league of all the team, and suddenly they do not score a single goal. We could indulge in this type of thinking to no end.

The issue is that we will never know. The possibilities and endless, and just the fact that the possibility exists is enough for the league to consider changes to the rules.

As I said, I will not push the issue further, and I will leave it, and I am apologizing to them for the posts given the result as they have given Campo the lead.

However, we should not be in a situation where this could happen. It is like giving a team the possibility of appointing an assistant referee or central referee or given the opportunity to make the offside calls themselves. Just the fact that the possibility of doing something gives them an advantage is unfair to the other teams but also to unfair to themselves. As they are put in the ackward position of being accused of not following ethical behaviour.

This might seem trivial, but it actually touches in deep philosophical issues regarding the effects of the existance choice and free will of humans.


I do sincerely hope that they become more careful when allowing people to sit in their technical area. Even if they are not doing wrong (and likely they are not), just the optics of perception is not fine and gives room to speculation.

I do appreciate that they fought hard on this game and gave us the lead in the table. Good for them to fight and let the game competitive.

"As I said, I will not push the issue further, and I will leave it..."
...as long as Campo is ahead in the standings.

 

[Soccer Coach]

FYI in most of European amateur leagues, the assistant referees are volunteers from the clubs that are playing and they do call offsides.

I really love how you strive to lower the standards of the VMSL. Of course most amateur leagues in the world do not have assistant referees. Urban Rec here does not even have central referees. Perhaps you should start to send your teams there.

Having said this, a competitive amateur league will have assistant referees. Otherwise, the game gets corrupted. I think that this is problem. You guys do not take it seriously and do whatever.

 

[dezza]

So now Amateur soccer in Vancouver, Canada is a higher standard than amateur soccer in Europe?

 

[Soccer Coach]

This weeks table
Division 1 - Pool: Div1
Team / PTS
Campo Atletico A 16 Div 2
Rino's Tigers 15 Premier
NVFC Norvan Lions A 15 Premier
CCB Guildford FC A 15
Binger's Army 15
Rino's Fury A 14 Div 2
Rino's Vanc SC 13
GN Sporting Club 12 Div 2
FC Romania A 11
South Delta Royals 7
Metropolitan A 5

1.- What a crazy weekend! Each week the disparity is supposed to increase, but this week the table became even more compressed.

How do we explain this madness? this anomaly never seen before. Over half of the table is within a 2 to 3 point distance.

There are several possible explanations.

First, is the unusual strength of the Division 2 teams. So far the three teams from Division 2 have done very well. A confirmation that the difference between the divisions is not that strong. The collective wisdom of our community might be misguided. As exemplified by @Canucks4Ever predictions, who predicted Campo and many of the Division 2 teams to get hammered. Some weeks he has even gotten all the predictions wrong. I am not critical of him. His predictions are usually bang on, this just shows that we are missing a lot of information from the collective wisdom of the TTP.

Second, the elimination of the tails from the list of teams. With the move from SU, the top division 1 team is gone. With the move from Akal, the bottom division 1 team is gone. Thus, both tails of the distribution are cut.

Third, the Rinos effect. As I explained, the evidence shows that I was wrong. The opposite effects seems to hold true. Those three teams train together, know each other very well, and the bottom teams from their club seem to have had really good results against their stronger counterpart (an unexpected win and unexpected lead by three goals). In additions, I would suspect the added bonus of passing information every time that one of their teams plays against the team from another club.

Please remember that information is very helpful in obtaining favourable results. I certainly would be happy to receive feedback from the coach of another team regarding their games. Perhaps all this has improved the performance of the two bottom Rinos teams.

Fouth, the weak teams from Premier. Rinos Tigers got hammered and did not win any single game in Premier. An Historic Record of losses. Norvan is composed from aging players.


Perhaps anyone has other explanations.

I find that the bottom teams are really difficult teams to play. For whatever reason they might have low points, but they are good.
Metropolitan, South Delta, Romania have lots of talent. Anytime they can beat or hold to a draw a top team from the table.

 

[Regs]

this anomaly never seen before.

VMSL Premier early-to-mid 90s the season ended with 5 teams tied at the top of the table.

 

[Soccer Coach]

VMSL Premier early-to-mid 90s the season ended with 5 teams tied at the top of the table.

I was not in the country then... I should have added. Recent history? Less than 25 years ago?

 

[dezza]

PREMIER 'A'
# Team GP W T L GF GA PTS
1 Burnaby Canadians "A" 9 3 5 1 12 11 14
2 ICSF Inter 8 4 1 3 19 12 13
3 Trollers FC "A" 8 4 1 3 14 16 13
4 Khalsa SC "A" 8 4 0 4 14 19 12
5 Sapperton Rovers "A" 7 3 0 4 11 14 9
6 Westside Rino "A" 8 2 2 4 11 15 8
7 Croatia SC "A" 8 1 3 4 11 14 6

Compiled by Ruben Tremarco on Nov 08, 2004



PREMIER 'B'
# Team GP W T L GF GA PTS
1 Surrey United "A" 10 5 3 2 23 11 18
2 Vanc. Firefighters "A" 11 4 5 2 19 15 17
3 Sporting Club "A" 11 4 4 3 18 12 16
4 Columbus-Clan FC "A" 11 5 1 5 22 21 16
5 AFC Leopards "A" 10 5 0 5 13 17 15
6 Metro-Ford Wolves "A" 11 4 2 5 9 14 14
7 Pegasus FC "A" 11 2 2 7 14 23 8

Compiled by Ruben Tremarco on Dec 05, 2004

 

[Soccer Coach]

nice try, but not quite the same.

 

[dezza]

give me strength.

at least we now know that Vancouver amateur soccer is better than European amateur soccer.

Also, Canada U20s are better than Honduras U20s.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Nice try trying to switch the topic...
happy for the win but this is div 1 thread.

 

[dezza]

OK, on topic then...

I agree with you, the division is so tight due to the fact that Surrey exited, meaning North Delta moved to Premier, and Akal folded after the season began.

If North Delta was in the division still they would be shite kicking all of us, and would be runaway leaders.

If Akal had dropped out before the season began then Norvan Storm would have been moved up to be the whipping boys of Div1 as they are just a mid-table Div 2 team this year.

Those things would make the table look less compact, especially since 2 of the other teams would likely have played 1 of them and not the other, so one would have an elevated standing due to an easy win without facing the top team yet, while the other would be further back after a crushing defeat, but with a chance for an easy 3 points still.

 

[cascadesoccer]

It is certainly a possibility that indeed this was just a move to protect and camouflage the advantages and possibility of collusive agreements.

The coach of the Tigers could have asked the players just to keep possession. The Tigers are the top goal scorers in the league of all the team, and suddenly they do not score a single goal. We could indulge in this type of thinking to no end.

The issue is that we will never know. The possibilities and endless, and just the fact that the possibility exists is enough for the league to consider changes to the rules.

As I said, I will not push the issue further, and I will leave it, and I am apologizing to them for the posts given the result as they have given Campo the lead.

However, we should not be in a situation where this could happen. It is like giving a team the possibility of appointing an assistant referee or central referee or given the opportunity to make the offside calls themselves. Just the fact that the possibility of doing something gives them an advantage is unfair to the other teams but also to unfair to themselves. As they are put in the ackward position of being accused of not following ethical behaviour.

This might seem trivial, but it actually touches in deep philosophical issues regarding the effects of the existance choice and free will of humans.


I do sincerely hope that they become more careful when allowing people to sit in their technical area. Even if they are not doing wrong (and likely they are not), just the optics of perception is not fine and gives room to speculation.

I do appreciate that they fought hard on this game and gave us the lead in the table. Good for them to fight and let the game competitive.

Your YouTube search history is fascinating

 

[Soccer Coach]

OK, on topic then...

I agree with you, the division is so tight due to the fact that Surrey exited, meaning North Delta moved to Premier, and Akal folded after the season began.

If North Delta was in the division still they would be shite kicking all of us, and would be runaway leaders.

If Akal had dropped out before the season began then Norvan Storm would have been moved up to be the whipping boys of Div1 as they are just a mid-table Div 2 team this year.

Those things would make the table look less compact, especially since 2 of the other teams would likely have played 1 of them and not the other, so one would have an elevated standing due to an easy win without facing the top team yet, while the other would be further back after a crushing defeat, but with a chance for an easy 3 points still.

oh well. I am glad that there is some sort of agreement.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Romania 1 - Campo Atletico 2
or sometimes you can win even if you lose tactically

Before I start with the report. I must say that we were given a superb referee crew for this game. It is very appreciated when this referee shows to the games, because he is very professional about it. The game gets controlled and players can enjoy their game without distractions and the result does not get influenced by referee actions. It is the way it should be done.

This was a very difficult game for us. I can see why Romania beat Norvan 3 to 1. They do many things very well. This is the first time in the season in which a coach has beaten me tactically, but the talent of the players saved the day.

Every time that I hear the name Romania, I do remember about the goal of Dumitrescu in the 1994 World Cup. One of my favourite goals of all time.


The game started with a very good and effective attack on their part. They moved the ball around the midfield and then had a penetrating pass on the wing. The cross was very well placed on the box and a subsequent header went wide near the post. Not many times our defense gets beaten that easily. I would say that the first 15 minutes were for them as they controlled the ball and the ball was mainly in our half with the sporadic counter attack.

I do not know if their coach was prepared for us or if he recognized how we were playing, but he did a very intelligent adjustment that gave him numerical superiority in the midfield and good control of it. Unfortunately, for him their players were not taking advantage of it. Thus, I gambled and pushed high numbers in the attack. Essentially, we conceded the midfield so we could have more overwhelming counterattacks. This paid off as every time that they lost the ball we would be able to mount a quick transitions that would result on shots on target. Their keeper made some nice saves that kept the game tied.

However, as expected, attack after attack, gets players tired and sloppy. They made a silly foul on the wing. We converted from the cross.

This was a nice outcome because we practiced it on the last training session.

This made them panic. Their build ups became really erratic, and we should have gotten two goals from their mistakes, but we did not capitalize them.

Then an unfortunate accident. Our winger gets elbowed and he gets his head split open. We had to rush him to the hospital to get some stitches. It partially changed our game as we had some to make alterations to our usual line up.

Romania became better at neutralizing our attacks, but fortunately the second goal game from the skill of our midfielder as he put the ball over the keeper and into the net from an attack. We thought that the ball went over the bar but the ball fell right into the goal area.


The first half finished, and everything pointed out to a comfortable win. However, things unfolded in a different manner. They came out with everything. They left only 3 defenders in the back and essentially had us against our backs for the entire game. They scored from a free kick which saw the ball placed in the top right corner. We were forced to concede several corner kicks and two of them just went by the post.

 

[bandcamp]

This is the first time in the season in which a coach has beaten me tactically

You see how you are? Do you?

 

[SmartCoach]

oh well. I am glad that there is some sort of agreement.

I have finally figured out what actually is wrong with you
You are suffering from Whingerama

 

[Soccer Coach]

I have finally figured out what actually is wrong with you
You are suffering from Whingerama

I feel honoured that you spend your time thinking about SoccerCoach and trying to figure him out. You will do a better use of your time spending thinking about games like this.