Premier [FVSL Premier] Results & Banter November 2008

[LION]

This is really Fcuked up. Wow a wee wa.

First,
PAU has been playing for years in the FVSL, as well as PCSL a few. Never had a paperwork infringement. Now one paperwork problem. Knowing the team, doesn't cheat. You know its a paperwork error. You know that. So fine them, and correct the paperwork. I can't believe this.
Maybe a $fine and a phone call on how you like things done.
A fine. Perioid. You don't penalize points. Guys were on that field perhaps getting there face fcuked up, and put in hospitals. You don't take it away. I am sure a table of smart men would come to grips on that. wow.
(maybe take the points recieved on the day away, but penalizing points. wow.

Second,
You show the ref the drivers license, does he a) not know the rule, says its fine for the guy to play, and fcuks you.
or b) knows the rules, knows its not fine, and knows the game he is about to ref doesn't mean shite anyways. and fcuks you.

How is this the teams fault?

Are the refs trained to lie, and say, all good son, yes, your friend, what is his name "kaka", he is eligible to play. Just show me a picture I.D.

If the league wants to go all stickler and shite on paperwork. They better hold there end up and have there refs inform teams if they are not dotting an I, or if a drivers license will not suffice. Or as GHouse said, how to fill out the game sheets correctly.
We are the ones paying to play.

WHAT A MESSSS!

 

[bluebird]

i cant believe some of what i am reading yes you have to have the letter from the league otherwise your in the shitter it has all been made quite clear and filling out your paperwork is not rocket science we dont need an instuction manual on filling out out paperwork

what does the exec have to do ? keep on telling people get your house in order
how many times have we heard "bush league" well now they are trying to get everything ship shape its time to get things right ive read many warnings on the website and still people do it wrong


its your responsability to do it right no one else dont blame the exec for doing their job just because your not doing yours

 

[bluebird]

Kevin Uppal is a senior official with the league and as far as I know is involved with Surrey Rangers FF Masters in a player role
Will Peacock is our club (Langley United) President and a former manager of various Langley teams
Rob Brown is the past president IIRC and I have no idea about his affiliation to any clubs
I don't know Brandt Watkins, Roop Virk, or Neil Fuge personally.

so does anyone know who these guys are that voted on this and what teams they are associated with .... and should they be hung drawn and quarted along side big bag

 

[canucklehead]

i cant believe some of what i am reading yes you have to have the letter from the league otherwise your in the shitter it has all been made quite clear and filling out your paperwork is not rocket science we dont need an instuction manual on filling out out paperwork

what does the exec have to do ? keep on telling people get your house in order
how many times have we heard "bush league" well now they are trying to get everything ship shape its time to get things right ive read many warnings on the website and still people do it wrong


its your responsability to do it right no one else dont blame the exec for doing their job just because your not doing yours

Well put. You aggreed to hire an Administrator to do the stuff that the Executive hasn't got time to do and now you cry the blues when you don't knock a name off of the list that shouldn't be there. It isn't rocket science; no extra information sessions are required on how to fill out paperwork. Is docking points stiff punishment, maybe. But there are some that don't seem to figure it out. So instead of being pissed at those that are trying to clean up your "rec league" as one VMSLer put it, get upset at those who need their held on how to operate a Sharpie. You want your lague to operate in a professional manner, then you the teams and managers ought to do the same.

 

[bluebird]

Second,
You show the ref the drivers license, does he a) not know the rule, says its fine for the guy to play, and fcuks you.
or b) knows the rules, knows its not fine, and knows the game he is about to ref doesn't mean shite anyways. and fcuks you.

How is this the teams fault?

Are the refs trained to lie, and say, all good son, yes, your friend, what is his name "kaka", he is eligible to play. Just show me a picture I.D.



WHAT A MESSSS!

from what i can gather its not up to the ref to say who can and cant play just report what they see
whats happened in the past is some ref's would not write on the form D/L so the exec dont know about it but i take it this guy did so it was spotted

back to what was said prior some teams are sitting players with no card and some are playing them and getting away with it and thats not fair

as is always the case a few teams have pissed the league off with their constant excuses for bush paperwork that at some point they have to say enough is enough and if they have to beat one team with a big stick others also have to get beaten and this seems the case with p/a its just bad timing to do what i'm sure is a very rare fcuk up
not sure what went on in the chillie game but ..... rich what is going on at a.c.b.c. .... first the cup final then this years first game and now two infractions at prem its hard to put up a defence ...is there any more to come that we dont know about yet ..... or has the league really caught every mistake you have ever made

 

[bulljive]

It's a joke really. It seems to me that the referee should be making it clear to teams at the field the paperwork is unacceptable(fix it) or sit that player or you will be deducted points. Don't act like everything is okay and then have teams losing points and getting fined. At the end of the day nobody wants to win or lose that way except Poco apparently. I don't see why the league is coming down so hard without giving teams an indication that they had been doing something wrong. If this many teams in the league are getting fined and losing points, clearly the league isn't doing a good enough job training officials, and informing coaches of what is acceptable and unacceptable.

 

[termatofylakas]

Ghouse your argument doesn't make any sense. First you come on here and say that you register every player on your team so you have no conflicts and because it is your team. Now you are saying you put a N/A next to Odog because he was injured. If he is registered then that shouldn't be a problem or am I missing something here? To me from what I am understanding it seems like you didn't register him (don't know why if you knew he'd be back at some point) and now are trying to defend his name on a sheet with N/A beside it. What difference does it make if it's N/A if he isn't registered? If he is registered then again what have you done wrong?

Also to the P.A guys if you are going to call up a player from another team then why is he not coming with his player card? The only thing I can agree with is that maybe the result from the game in question should be a loss with a fine and that's it instead of having an additional 3 points deducted. Reading your leagues rules it seems that is what should happen.

The refs shouldn't have to babysit you guys and blaming the executives for certain fcuk ups is weak sauce. I had a player this past weekend coming off a suspension so I assumed he would get his card and be eligible to play. I printed my team list and then received an email stating he is done for a while and found out from his friend he got into an accident. Now instead of risking anything not knowing if he did or didn't get his card I just crossed his name off the f'n list like JBN says he does. Simple and easy to avoid any controversy period as he didn't get his card. I know it's not the same issue as many but as people have stated it is your job to follow the rules and they seem pretty clear to me.

I don't know what was agreed with Chilli's situation so can't comment on that. I don't buy Ghouses excuse and as stated before PAU should only have lost a point and a fine along with it if going by rules. I am not defending anyone and don't really care since I'm not a member of this "Bush League" as many of you put it. Good luck to all with your protests but think about what these people go through at the same time for you guys to enjoy your football. How much crap could you people put up with regardless of right or wrong before you've had enough. I'll give big bag credit you guys keep pissing on him but he still carries on. Still lots of season to be played and the best team usually wins at the end.

 

[LION]

So why would a ref accept a drivers license. Then go ref a mean nothing game. I don't get that at all. Keeping a little secret the whole time. Someone explain me this?

Ok, so its not in there job description...?
Whats the point of the checks then?
In PAU's case, they used the drivers license, the ref said its fine. Done.
The league knows who he is, he is signed with the club. Where is the cheating? where is the mistake?
Not illegal player, not supposed to be crossed off, got checked, and played.

So you people are saying, that if they do a check on the i.d's and something doesn't line up and they know it, they still continue and play the game. knowing its a void game right from the opening whistle?

The players pay to play, and are held accountable,
The Refs get paid, and are not held accountable.
anything wrong with this?

 

[LION]

Who ever said games weren't played on paper....

 

[Dude]

There is a different deffinition for "Administrator": OVERHEAD.

Administrators administrate, they are not there to make decisions, they are not there to shoot from the hip. They are there to be directed. So, in saying that, you can not blame the administrator for this mess.

Bluebird: as much as the the others comments may come off as sour grapes to you, yours come off as opportunistic to me. Maybe take a step back, and look at this objectively...

So far we know the list of administrative offenses are:

~Player presented wrong type of ID, but was allowed by ref.
~Team filled out game sheet incorrectly, although on the game sheet did indicate the player was not eligible to play.
~Team used last years youth permit forms, not the 2008 youth permit forms.

I'm sure there is more.

1st: did these teams CHEAT?
2nd: does the punnishment fit the crime?

When the shite hits the fan like this, it's always the best idea to use common sense as the guiding light. Common sense says you warn on first offense, fine on second offense, combined w/ firmer written warning of harsher punnishmdent on 3rd offense (i.e.: deduction of points). If they do it a 3rd time, deduct appropriate number of points.

I am sincerely hoping the league is taking a common sense approach to this mess. As perfect in their paperwork and filing as Bluebird and JBN will have us believe, I am sure one day they will slip up, and find themselves in this situation. How would they feel if they were punnished in the harshest manner possible when really a slap on the wrists were warranted?

 

[suburbanator]

. What difference does it make if it's N/A if he isn't registered? If he is registered then again what have you done wrong?

He was probably registered to the ACBC "B" team putting Ghouse over the 7 player permit limit.

 

[suburbanator]

There is a different deffinition for "Administrator": OVERHEAD.
~Player presented wrong type of ID, but was allowed by ref.
~Team filled out game sheet incorrectly, although on the game sheet did indicate the player was not eligible to play.
~Team used last years youth permit forms, not the 2008 youth permit forms.
?

Umm... Sort of correct. Ref is not responsible for what you show as ID, you choose to show a DL after being clearly informed that FVSL-ID or a letter from the League was required.

Team filled out game sheet incorrectly? There are about 8 instances of this of varying severity. One person had all B team permit players listed and not crossed off, which exceeded the 7 player rule, another didn't cross of a suspended player, another didn't list permit players at all.

Team used last years youth permit forms? Not extactly. Team used 3 year old youth permit forms. Team recieved notice in writing that form was invalid and was provided a link to the new one. Team continued using said form, so got punished, and actually could have been punished further.

As far as the severity goes, I agree with you and canvassed on behalf of all effected Langley teams to have the sentences reduced etc. (regarding additional three point deductions etc).

 

[coach]

For the record....Kevin Uppal is still part of the Rangers!

Yes he is managing Norvan this year and but i could have sworn i saw him in the changerooms on Sunday?

Upps is a big time Ranger!

Carry on.

 

[Dude]

Sub...obviously I chose not to get into specifics, because I don't think it is appropriate...yet.

More on the broad spectrum of things...for administrative errors like this- sloppy paperwork- does the punnishment fit the crime? Again, let's look at the big picture here. Let's use common sense, and not let administrative snaffus paint this league and this year's results with a tainted brush.

 

[studsup]

Dude, well said. final words: take the points away from the game in question. Fine the team a monetary amount. Taking extra points away is a joke.

 

[Dude]

I think even that is harsh. This is purely administrative related.

There have been teams known to cheat in the past...carry illegal players (either intentionally or not), play guys under other names when they should have been sitting on yellows or reds. That consitutes cheating, and should be punnished harshly. Even a team playing while refusing to pay dues...

But these infractions should be treated w/ a three strike approach. Again, let's use common sense to make decisions; the heavy handed approach is a bit over the top, and my hope is that the league will review all these decisions, and come to a fair resolution that makes sense for all stakeholders. In every one of these cases, this question should be asked first: "What is good for the league?"

 

[Kevin Hector]

This league has never looked more ridiculous than with big bag as President. How you can have a Coach/manager of a team, handing out suspensions and fines to other teams is beyond me. Conflict of interest, I think so.

He doesn't hand out suspensions the board does that. again he also doesn't hand out fines. the Executive does that.

 

[johnnybluenose]

For the record: I never once inferred the league was 100% accurate in their paperwork. The only cause I was taking up was pointing out that this witch hunt should either be:
A) Bssed on fact and not just heresay
B) And include the rest of the executive and not simply just Thomas Mills.

I also mentioned that I don't think the punishment fit the crime.

I did however mention that the rules were made plain as day since the beginning of the season.

What is good for the league?
My thoughts are that perhaps they are going about having the paperwork standardized the wrong way.
The other problem is that no responsibility is being taken by match officials.

If we can get a standard set of documentation (and better processes for calling up youth players) things would probably go a lot better.

 

[sixfyv]

There have been teams known to cheat in the past...carry illegal players (either intentionally or not), play guys under other names when they should have been sitting on yellows or reds.

To whom are you referring, Dude?

itsnotliketheyevenplayinthefvslanymoresodontbeshy

 

[Dude]

Fair enough, and I totally agree with you on the Witch hunt. Mills happens to be president, but we all know for a fact that issues are discussed and voted upon. It is always and will always be an “Executive” decision, in the plural sense.

Seriously, Big Bag must be loving the limelight now (I’m being sarcastic, for those TTP inept...these are sensitive times).

I’ll also agree w/ TP Rangers that the optics right now are perhaps at an all time worst. The fact that this is becoming such a public nightmare just feeds all those VMSL idiots who like nothing better than to point East and cry “Bush”, all because the Executive has decided to take a hard line stance on sorting out what has been a long-time paperwork fiasco. Like it or not, optics are important, and do play a role- back to “what is best for the league”.