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World Cup 06' - Outright

Dude

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First of all, take a breath.

At least in your case you lived in England for at least a nano-second. Not Hargreaves. He's English only by convenience, nothing else. Seriously: he's as English as I'm Irish.

Besides, you've proved my point...in soccer, it seems to be OK in this country to conveniently site our program as being shite as a good enough excuse to turn coat.

He's a player that could have really made an impact and meaningful difference on our program- like Nash did for Basketball Canada. Instead, he'll spend his career in England. Sure, he may have greater international success, but he'll do it not really having the respect or love of the English who really know his story.
 

striker14

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Dude said:
He's a player that could have really made an impact and meaningful difference on our program- like Nash did for Basketball Canada. Instead, he'll spend his career in England. Sure, he may have greater international success, but he'll do it not really having the respect or love of the English who really know his story.

WOW...nice work!

Sounds very familiar to the Brett Hull story...now THAT's a turncoat!
 

knvb

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He's a player that could have really made an impact and meaningful difference on our program-
Blah blah, fcuking blah. Why do you keep skipping the fact that the Canadians turned him away?
 

Dude

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When he was young and not deemed good enough. When he developped, and they came calling, he teased, then turned. Why don't you tell the full story?

You know, just because the national side, at some point in your youth determines you're not up to par w/ your peers at that time, doesn't make it OK to shop your services. On the proffessional side, sure- nature of the mighty contract- but not when it comes to national duty.

Again, because it is soccer, and we are soccer players, we're supposed to accept this as being OK, since CSA sucks. Like sheep. It's unpopular for Canadian players to take a stance like I do. But, if the same happens in hockey, and we lose one of our better players to another country, the same people are up in arms.
 

Dude

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Why do I feel like I'm about to slip a noose around my neck? Don't know his story, so can't comment. Enlighten us, Regs. Let me guess: Will came from another country and is now wearing Canadian colors? :rolleyes:

Instead of me having to justify why I don't support players like Hargreaves, in his personal situation, why don't you tells us why it's OK? Don't forget to leave out the good bits.
 

Regs

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The reason I ask these little questions is to try and spark some critical thinking rather than rehashing the old, and seemlingly popular, arguements that concern playing for your country.

As for Will Johnson, yes, he came from another country and now plays for Canada. In fact, he played for Canada before he even stepped foot in our country. He is British. Not exactly a third world country.

How is his situation different from Hargreaves? To me, everyone in this country that 'hates' Hargreaves does so because it is a matter of convenience. These same people will love Will for the next several years. Why?

Why isn't this country celebrating the fact that a kid that grew up in Canada did extremely well in the World footballing spotlight? A smart organisation would jump on this, mend fences, and do their best to work with the situation (I mean this from a marketing point of view and/or future player coaching/development opportunities). Instead we have the CSA. And clueless Canadian media and so-called 'soccer' fans.

--//--

In a way, knowing a little of the background to the Hargreaves story (in so much as he was told he wasn't good enough for our National program), I can personally relate to his thinking at the time. Before I go on here, let me just preface that I am not one to 'toot my own horn' (well, not loudly anyways).

Many moons ago, I could play. I was fit and maybe more importantly, I was very much willing to learn and was quick to apply new techniques to my 'game'. In short, I was 'coachable'. I was asked/called out to the NTC to play a few games with "Canada West" under Bruce Twamley and Les Wilson. I was too old to factor into their immediate plans at the time as the 'team' was for the next Olympics (too old by a couple of months). Anyways, after playing a couple of games, they pulled me aside, asked me where I was currently playing club-wise and said "you're going to go places, you've got a bright future". Little did I know at the time that they meant the only place I was going, was home, and that the bright future was sitting infront of a dinky little computer and creating the blackhole known as TTP. :D

I never heard from them again. So why would they say that? Were they just being 'polite'? If they really thought I had a bright future, where did it fall apart? I'll tell you this, if I had other options at the time (say a year or 2 after it was apparent nothing was happening), I would have explored them in a heartbeat. And I would do so (1) out of spite; and (2) because I would have wanted to play at the highest level that I could. Unfortunately, my circumstances did not allow that to happen.

But for someone like Hargreaves, other doors were available (and by no means do I put my skills on the same level as him - far from it!).

--//--

With the CSA, once you have been told you are not good enough, that's it. You are off their 'radar' for good. At least that's what I have observed. It would be interesting to see if any Canadian players that have been cut from a youth National program, have come back into the fold years later to factor into the senior side. Anyone know of some examples? I know Reedy was cut from the Olympic program despite being the fastest human on earth, but he never got a sniff again :)
 

Balsa

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Striker 14, Hull was a bum when he tried out for Canada and didn't make it. That is when he went to the US......a turncoat would have come back to Canada when he developed. Brian Trottier was a turncoat......played with Canada for years then went to the US.

In regards to Hargreaves it is tough to say he was a turncoat as he was turned away at one point. The CSA obviously did not do a good job of monitering his progress and keeping him close to the program. This is typical of our national program. It is tough to hate a kid who is living all of our dreams while taking his opportunity to play for a country with a chance of being world champions (one day). It hurts to see our country not have the best players available but it is even worse for us to cheer against a fellow Canadian who is succeeding at the worlds best level. Until Canada plays England all us dreamers should be cheering for him to do well.

Regs, I like your story about the old guard at the CSA program. My guess is that you can find many people on and off TTP that have ben mishandled by the Twamley, Wilson and others. I am not sure if I had the talent to go to the Olympics and so forth but I did spend much of my youth in the CSA Training program and have the same thoughts about how I was handled as you. I did have opportunities to show them wrong but sadly injuries ruined my chance. I beleive that the program has grown and developed since the 80's and early 90's as many young players are showing that Canada is developing talent capable of playing at the highest level. Hargreaves is just one example, and the only one I can name. :) Many of Canada's young players now play in Europe which is great to see.

Cheers
 

Dude

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Regs,

You make some good points, and I'm glad you took the time to write it up. I'll do likewise.

It is a good point of discussion, and if it can be discussed without us attacking each other, I'm all for it. I'll take some time to think here to support my points, and get back to it...
 

Dude

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I will Regs. Though, there are some things from my early '20s that I did for my country that I'm not so proud of.

~Requiredpaperbag.
 

FRANCIS

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Regs,
Good question with respect to guys being cut and coming back. Having been with the youth team from 1985-1987, Aunger was cut after going to England for a trial but resurfaced a few years later with World Cup Team.

Interseting note about that team was that the only players to ever get a shot at the senior team was Onstad and Forrest who was already playing in England and only joined the team prior to the Youth Wolrd Cup in Chile. Lots of guys played in the CSL though.

How about someone like Dasovic who never got a sniff at any B.C. teams or youth teams but ended up doing quite well once he hit his early twenties.
 

Dude

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TheRob, you were the inventor of the Flux Capacitor? I never knew that about you...

Still composing...I'm fcuking busy, you know.
 

colemanj

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Perhaps Hargreaves attended a World Cup in his younger years? I will tell you, after spending two weeks roaming Germany, England has by far the best fans, nobody even close. At the end, win or lose, even I was thinking "I am England till I die."

I think I might have even seen some Scots and Irish pretending...
 

Captain Shamrock

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colemanj said:
Perhaps Hargreaves attended a World Cup in his younger years? I will tell you, after spending two weeks roaming Germany, England has by far the best fans, nobody even close. At the end, win or lose, even I was thinking "I am England till I die."

I think I might have even seen some Scots and Irish pretending...

You'll never see that.......nice try though....


As for the best fans.........is that determined by the most arrested during the tournament? If so, congratulations England on having the best supporters.......
 

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