War in, on and over Iraq

[Dude]

Nice.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I beleive the Saddam regime needs to be removed from power, but I have real problems with this war, for obvious reasons. This is my biggest beef too: the US propaganda machine would have everyone think this is a humanitarian effort first, and foremost. It just so happens that Iraq is in a position to control world-wide supply of the American's (and Canadian's) most precious commodity.

I didn't have a problem with Kosovo, but this is different. Does the end justify the means?

 

[the manager]

classic thread

the type of posting ging on here is what makes ttp a stimulating, intelectual experience.

I agree with the likes of Fasty, spud, dude et al and I too have issues with this war.

has anyone ever read the book by a SFU psycology professor (I can't remember his name) titled "the War of Words"? I haven't yet, but am actively seeking to. On the news the other day, the author mentioned that what we are bombarded with by the media, as to "so called motives" for this war should be taken for what it's worth...not much at all. In fact, he eluded to believing 10% of what is said and then cutting that in half.

I fully agree with the thoughts and insights eluding to this being an economic war....further, the war as it stands is not mearly fought on the battlefield, but, on the television set...I can't believe the powers that be assume the people are so ignorant to not see past the smoke these guys are blowing....freedom, liberty, democracy, ridding the world of evil and so forth...give me a break!

manager

 

[Sandman]

Does anyone remember 9/11?.......that day forever changed the way the United States conducts itself. There are several implications that come with the U.S. going to war, and some of it is surely economic. The price of oil is too high, and don't be surprised to see a US base in Iraq and a subsequent oil price in the teens.

Saying that, the more important agenda is the welfare of United States security. Iraq and Afghanistan are two nations that harbor terrorists (which are a threat to the U.S.) and their regimes support them. Of course their is a double standard with all the other terroist regimes around the world, but until they are a threat to United States security, they will be left alone.

These terrorist groups HATE the U.S. why wait until these nations have enough weapons of mass destruction, or why wait until another tragedy takes place. Does anyone on TTP know anyone that either died or had to go through the nightmare on 9/11. The U.S. will never be caught off guard again.

What would the French do if the Eiffel Tower was bombed? I say, Come calling the on the U.S.

Sandman

 

[Jinky]

Sorry to disagree Sandman but the U.S. has harboured imperial aspirations since it's inception. From George Washington's Canadian invasion plans right up to the Invasion of Iraq, they have never needed a real excuse for any invasion.

Using the 9-11 attack as a cause in the invasion of Iraq is shameful. The deaths of those people have been used as a moral reason for the invasion when the legal reason was thwarted in the U.N.

Why don't the Americans attack Saudi Arabia? No country harbours or finances more terrorists than that Kingdom. 17 of the 19 9-11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian. They were financed by Saudi Arabians. Osama Bin Laden is SAUDI ARABIAN!

If the U.S. really wants to make their country secure from terrorists they are going to have to be seen to be leaning on the Israelis in a big way in order to create a viable Palestinian state.
Perhaps they could simply buy the Gaza strip from them with all the oil money they will be making after the war.

 

[bertrum]

This pic just in from Al Jeezera TV

 

[Captain Shamrock]

BINGO again, Jinky. Once again, it is all convenience for the US and as most other TTPers have stated, it's all about money.

U.S.A. U.S.A.! U.S.A!


Also, Sandman, by attacking nations like this, the U.S. is just building up more animosity from other nations. The U.S. will be hated more now than ever before. This really is a NO WIN situation for anyone. The irony of the whole thing is how much the U.S. is trying to get rid of the 'mass destruction' weapons and they are the only fcukers who have ever used anything like that. It was okay then though, because they were just trying to get the evil Japanese to surrender. Fcuking hypocrisy at its best.

Has anyone even looked at the cost of this war? They are estimating right now that it will be at least 75 billion cnuting dollars. It's good that the U.S. can put that much money into something like that, and still have all the homeless people remain just that; homeless. Isn't that one of the reasons why the U.S. is trying to get rid of Hussein? Speaking of hypocrisy........


Captain

 

[vratar]

Quote "Has anyone even looked at the cost of this war? They are estimating right now that it will be at least 75 billion cnuting dollars."

I am sure USofA's return on investment will be enormous. Take into account the rebuilding of Iraq. Who will pay for this, well most certaintly Iraq's Oil revenues in the years to follow. Who will participate in this rebuilding phase? USof A's private companies and corporations. One can assume these corporations will net much more than the 75 billion spent. How many years will this take? Probably many many years of bonanza profits and revenues for US companies. Iam sure Bush's stock portfolio will do okay in the years follow. He wont have to pay any tax on those stock dividends he receives. I doubt Canadian companies will net enormous profits from this rebuilding phase, other than the odd private corporation sent in to put out oil fires, etc. However we Canadians are expected to pitch in our loonies for humanitariun aid.

btw, 1 in 6 American children continue to live in poverty.

 

[One Dart]

Just a note. The 75 Billion dollar figure is what George is going to ask for from Congress. This is on top of what has already been spent getting the troops there and on top of what they are using in terms of weaponry that has already been purchased.

75 Billion dollars could feed a lot of poor kids

 

[Smiles]

Please help us

Vratar,

In some areas of the U.S. the poverty line is above $20,000.00

Hate to filter the bong smoke but no one is starving down here.

Please send all donations to Regs to support the TTP Poverty Line.

Cheers,

Smiles

 

[Fastshow]

[]

In some areas of the U.S. the poverty line is above $20,000.00

You want to have a word with your mate who keeps writing your posts for you. What they lack in sense they more than make up for in really naff stereotypes. Implicit in your friend's post is that some areas in the country the rest of us not-so-secretly want to live in the poverty line is below $20,000.

Well argued. Any chance of your mate writing another gem that argues the toss for the pro-war brigade? I love his work.

 

[One Dart]

Exactly Fasty. Things are also going well in Canada with regards to poverty. In West Van there are almost no children who live below the poverty line.

 

[Smiles]

I am glad you are a fan

Slowshow,

Top ten list from friend. The rest from my SFU/Western days.

Cheers,

Smiles

 

[Sliver]

Surprise Surprise

The first of the big war contracts have been awarded. Guess who the big winner is... Halliburton. A company that puts out oil fires and repairs oil pipelines.

Up until 2000 the CEO of the company was none other that Dick Cheney. Cheney is still being paid by Halliburton as part of his severance package.

No conflict of interest here.

Google News stories about this.

 

[Dude]

Sliver...looks like you beat me to the punch.

A US delegation arrived in Amman on its way to Baghdad for ceasefire negotiations

Abu Dhabi, Alittihad Daily, 3/26/2003 -- The UAE leading semi-official daily newspaper, Alittihad, reported today that a US government delegation has arrived in Amman, Jordan, yesterday on its way to Baghdad for negotiations with the Iraqi government about an immediate ceasefire.

A diplomatic source told Alittihad that the US government delegation included four leading members of Congress as well as Elizabeth Cheney, the daughter of the US Vice President Dick Cheney, representing the US Department of State, where she works as an Assistant to the Deputy of the Secretary of State for Middle Eastern Affairs.



Newsstory, HERE

 

[Dude]

Maybe you didn't beat me to the punch...

 

[Six of One]

I know it's been out a while, but

For an excellent perspective on this whole war thing, see the Michael Moore documentary (if you haven't already), "Bowling for Columbine" for which Moore won the Best Documentary oscar.

Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Reccos]

The US direction

Not only is the war in Iraq an unjust war, the US under this President is doing more to destablize international relations and create the conditions for a decade of wars from here on than any despot like Saddam Hussein.

If you want to read some scary stuff as to the direction the Americans are taking under Bush, read the stuff on the website Project for the New American Century that started up in 1997. It would be comical if it weren't true. Some of the signatories to this document include VP Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Defense Secretary and Paul Wolfiwitz his deputy I believe. Oh yes, and Jeb Bush.

In their statement of principles they say that "We aim to make the case and rally support for global leadership" and they ask the question "Does America have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?" With this war, I think we know where there President stands.

They go on to say:

* we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today....
* we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests.
* we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles."

And finally, "Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity...is necessary...to ensure our security and our greatness in the next century."

This might not be so bad if those governing the US didn't sign on and actually believe this shite.

Who the fcuk are these guys to think they should decide which regimes they like and which they don't?

We can only hope that regime change will occur in the US at the next election when those clowns wake up and find out that Bush fcuked up the economy and got the US involved in a war that lost a lot of lives.

It is pretty evident that the Americans under this President have imperialistic ideas that date back to 1700s. Only these guys have the weapons to back it up.

Oh yeah. These boys have some updated stuff for North Korea and it doesn't sound friendly. Now North Korea could be a very serious situation and lead to a huge war.


http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm[/URL]

 

[Smiles]

wake up

reccos,

The people the U.S. are fighting want you dead. How hard is that to understand. I can not make this any clearer.

Smiles

 

[vratar]

Maybe not

I doubt they want Canadians dead, we have an abundance of resources to offer. Water, lumber, fish, electricity, oil(ya oil, we Canadians produce more oil than we consume), all kinds of commodities and raw resources. Cant forget about hockey. We are worth more alive than dead to them, kind of like that other nation south of us who nabs all these resources dirp cheap from us then resells the finished product back to us at huge mark-ups. On top of this they the USofA whines when we have a slight competitive advantage with some our industries. Read NAFTA and the current lumber dispute. I recently heard they want to dramatically change the way we deliver electricity. Thus driving up prices and sending profits to US controlled companies. Already it was noted border patrol nuissance is hampering some of our industries which sell perishable goods, thus eliminating our companies to deliver on time. Give me a break, not at McDonalds though.

 

[the power]

The people the U.S. are fighting want you dead

So does it make it right to kill them first?