Premier [VMSL Premier] Predictions, Results & Banter 2017/2018

[Dude]

I must say this is a satisfactory answer. The question now would be is this fair? If teams were breaking the rules, should they get away with it because of the 48 hour rule....
Thanks for the clarification.

You made a comparison to Lance Armstrong being a cheat a couple of days back. Well, you actually said "Neil", who was an astronaut, but considering it's not likely possible to cheat at astronauting, I rightly guessed you meant Lance. The reason why the Tour de France has not listed a winner for all those years Lance won but admitted to doping (7 tours) was because the list of known, proven positive testers went past 10 places deep. They couldn't give it to another rider because they WERE ALL CHEATING!

Now, in this case of ITCs, I actually don't see it so much as cheating as ignorance of the rules. If you are to sanction two, don't you have to sanction them all? It's likely most premier level teams have ITC issues.

You have other sour grapes, and that is the issue of alleged cash payments for services to play soccer, specifically and allegedly Rinos. That's a different war cry.

On the issue of ITCs, the way I see it is that the leagues need to sort their shite out, but also take responsibility for the hand they have in this mess. To sanction teams now that have lost protests when it's known that most other teams also carried and played players with ITC issues would simply be wrong. Fix it in the offseason, and start 2018/19 with a clean slate, and clear expectations so far as rules and ITCs.

 

[Soccer Coach]

You made a comparison to Lance Armstrong being a cheat a couple of days back. Well, you actually said "Neil", who was an astronaut, but considering it's not likely possible to cheat at astronauting, I rightly guessed you meant Lance. The reason why the Tour de France has not listed a winner for all those years Lance won but admitted to doping (7 tours) was because the list of known, proven positive testers went past 10 places deep. They couldn't give it to another rider because they WERE ALL CHEATING!

Now, in this case of ITCs, I actually don't see it so much as cheating as ignorance of the rules. If you are to sanction two, don't you have to sanction them all? It's likely most premier level teams have ITC issues.

You have other sour grapes, and that is the issue of alleged cash payments for services to play soccer, specifically and allegedly Rinos. That's a different war cry.

On the issue of ITCs, the way I see it is that the leagues need to sort their shite out, but also take responsibility for the hand they have in this mess. To sanction teams now that have lost protests when it's known that most other teams also carried and played players with ITC issues would simply be wrong. Fix it in the offseason, and start 2018/19 with a clean slate, and clear expectations so far as rules and ITCs.

Thank you. I see your point of view. Penalize some but not everyone is not fair. It is a good point.

Ps. It must have been a Freudian slip. (Armstrong)
Anyway guys, time to have a break. it was fun...take care...

Ps.1 love to stir the pot, engage in conspiracy theories and cover ups, always good fights with you guys...

 

[Gurps]

You made a comparison to Lance Armstrong being a cheat a couple of days back. Well, you actually said "Neil", who was an astronaut, but considering it's not likely possible to cheat at astronauting.

Im dead.

 

[Dude]

Thank you. I see your point of view. Penalize some but not everyone is not fair. It is a good point.

Ps. It must have been a Freudian slip. (Armstrong)
Anyway guys, time to have a break. it was fun...take care...

Ps.1 love to stir the pot, engage in conspiracy theories and cover ups, always good fights with you guys...

...and that's the crux of the matter.

"Cheating" is not an appropriate branding to use in the case of the ITCs. When most of the managers in the leagues (remember, the leagues go way beyond Premier and div. 1) are not paperwork experts, and most likely had no idea of the ITC issue at all, it's not fair to issue punishments when more and more it's becoming pretty clear the leagues were knowingly allowing registrations to pass through to BCSA unquestioned, knowing the rule.

The leagues themselves need to take ownership. Pull up their big boy pants, and take ownership of this. Put an end to the bickering among their members, and move forward. Not on, but forward, as in FIX IT!

Your jihad on paying players? Whole other battle, and a much bigger battle. This ITC thing is a pussies way of protesting to try and advance their cause.

 

[Soccer Coach]

No.

The league has not formally sanctioned Rino's or Campo at this point. While the entire Rules and Regulations were posted on this site earlier (perhaps a link would have been more appropriate...) the document containing the relevant information to protests is actually the VMSL Constitution, Article 6; found here: https://vmslsoccer.com/Constitut

Based on their written requirements for protests, the VMSL rejected the protests regarding Campo and Rino's and referred the complaining party/parties to BC Soccer, which is where the protests sit currently.

To clarify, these protests are separate, and, in fact, pre-date, the protest that was filed with BC Soccer by the FVSL regarding Rino's and their first round win over Aldergrove in the Provincial A Cup. It is alleged that information gathered as part of these initial VMSL protests was provided to the FVSL which caused them to act.

The FVSL has now taken it upon itself to sanction Aldergrove as a result of the findings of that Provincial Cup related protest. Sources tell me that the process is progressing swiftly and there could possibly be an announcement within days regarding potential punishment for Aldergrove as it pertains to the FVSL and their league and cup competitions.

As far as I am currently aware, the VMSL has no timetable for any potential punishments pertaining to Campo or Rino's with respect to their league or cup competitions.

Since you are well informed, is there any chance that BC Soccer or the CSA can force a change of the rules and regulations of the VMSL?
The position that I am pondering is the following. Lets assume a team uses an ineligible player and wins the game. The losing team might not mind. However, the result likely will affect a third party who has not the resources or time to verify the validity of the roster. The team with the infraction will get away with this and hence the fairness of the competition is tainted.

Is it possible that some of the illegal and irregular activity in the VMSL comes from the faulty rules?
They seem to protect the infringing parties and not the other way around.
As I pointed out, the history of soccer is full of point deductions granted retroactively. I still feel that the fair and correct and ethical decision is to take the points and cup away from Rinos. They won the games and cup breaking the rules.

 

[Dude]

Are we still talking about ITCs? You do understand that until recently almost no manager knew this was even a thing, right?

 

[Dude]

You are fast and loose throwing around the word "cheater". In order to be a cheater you need to know you are cheating. It needs to be a conscious decision. By your reasoning, seems to me most squads over all divisions are "cheaters", including your former squad under your watch, no?

 

[Soccer Coach]

You are fast and loose throwing around the word "cheater". In order to be a cheater you need to know you are cheating. It needs to be a conscious decision. By your reasoning, seems to me most squads over all divisions are "cheaters", including your former squad under your watch, no?

I beg to differ. Cheating does not require knowledge of the facts or even intent to cheat. They might be mitigating factors in the sentencing or the granting of the penalty. However, it is still cheating. The issue @Dude is that it is very hard to believe that at Premier and Division 1 competitions the managers would not know of the ITC. Even soccer moms managing bronze and silver teams know of ITC and strict regulations with foreign playing players. Little clubs seem to be more aware that Premier managers. Please give me a break. Blaise is placing players with Barcelona and professional teams in Europe and he and his entourage do not know of an ITC?

 

[Dude]

If that's the case, that makes you no different than any other coach who seeks to win above all else, even above fair competition. It's amateur football. Solution is to solve the problem, but you'd have every team, ever, who has violated this rule be punished? Are you insane? You do realize that there would be almost no more bodies left standing, right? Nearly every team would be effected. Do you understand that?

It's very easy to believe that because most managers do not pour over the intricacies of the BCSA rule book. They use their league's guidelines as their guide. If you are looking to blame anyone for this mess, yes, blame the leagues, but not the individual managers. You have a very sheltered and isolated view of how things actually are. I challenge you to go to any park, and time, talk to the soccer mom and ask her if she knows what an ITC is. Then work your way up to their coach. I sure as hell didn't, and now that i think of it, I think one of our girls last year didn't have a form. We are div. 1 (or, Gold, however you want to term it). We have kids up here all the time for a year or two from somewhere else (Australian, Japan, new Zealand, UK, the US) then move on to somewhere else. Kids and their parents that move here temporarily here for the skiing and lifestyle. One of our girls for sure from Florida would be in that category. Another, actually, from the UK. I didn't know about the ITC requirement. I know our team manager didn't know, and guarantee our club TD doesn't know. Well he may now, cause he reads TTP.

You are doing it again where you go all crazy, and far fetched. Bring it back to reality. Your blind rage for Rinos is clouding what should be some sound judgement on this issue. But hey, if you want to continue to think and act like a lunatic on TTP, be my guest.

 

[lego3]

Didn't Chile use a ineligible player 5 years ago or so when they were in Div.1?? The player was playing in VMSL and BMSL at the same time under different name and nothing has happened because Chile said they didn't know that he was registered with both teams and VMSL did nothing about it. I doubt VMSL will do anything about ITC's.

Yes, the rumour is right that @Soccer Coach will be coaching Chile next season.

#sourgrapes

 

[Soccer Coach]

Didn't Chile use a ineligible player 5 years ago or so when they were in Div.1?? The player was playing in VMSL and BMSL at the same time under different name and nothing has happened because Chile said they didn't know that he was registered with both teams and VMSL did nothing about it. I doubt VMSL will do anything about ITC's.

Yes, the rumour is right that @Soccer Coach will be coaching Chile next season.

#sourgrapes

Come on...guys...I am not coaching Chile next season...and by the way a lot of things changed in 5 years...

 

[Soccer Coach]

If that's the case, that makes you no different than any other coach who seeks to win above all else, even above fair competition. It's amateur football. Solution is to solve the problem, but you'd have every team, ever, who has violated this rule be punished? Are you insane? You do realize that there would be almost no more bodies left standing, right? Nearly every team would be effected. Do you understand that?

It's very easy to believe that because most managers do not pour over the intricacies of the BCSA rule book. They use their league's guidelines as their guide. If you are looking to blame anyone for this mess, yes, blame the leagues, but not the individual managers. You have a very sheltered and isolated view of how things actually are. I challenge you to go to any park, and time, talk to the soccer mom and ask her if she knows what an ITC is. Then work your way up to their coach. I sure as hell didn't, and now that i think of it, I think one of our girls last year didn't have a form. We are div. 1 (or, Gold, however you want to term it). We have kids up here all the time for a year or two from somewhere else (Australian, Japan, new Zealand, UK, the US) then move on to somewhere else. Kids and their parents that move here temporarily here for the skiing and lifestyle. One of our girls for sure from Florida would be in that category. Another, actually, from the UK. I didn't know about the ITC requirement. I know our team manager didn't know, and guarantee our club TD doesn't know. Well he may now, cause he reads TTP.

You are doing it again where you go all crazy, and far fetched. Bring it back to reality. Your blind rage for Rinos is clouding what should be some sound judgement on this issue. But hey, if you want to continue to think and act like a lunatic on TTP, be my guest.

@Dude...many soccer mom managers know about ITC's because clubs have been strict and do not let young players play until the paperwork gets sorted out. they are VERY strict about it. you can discuss with @trece verde . they do not let play young lads if the paper work is not in order. it is not like whatever give me the passport later on or the info after. No reason why adult soccer does not follow the same standard of ethics.

 

[akslop]

 

[Dude]

My Bad. I guess you'd have had to spend more time in a library than a soccer pitch growing up to be that in tune with obscure rules almost nobody knows or cares about.

 

[Soccer Coach]

My Bad. I guess you'd have had to spend more time in a library than a soccer pitch growing up to be that in tune with obscure rules almost nobody knows or cares about.

you know dude...you can learn a lot about soccer in a library. The biggest insight into the game come from philosophers or social scientist not soccer players....
“Football is a ritual in which the disinherited expended their combative energy and sense of revolt, practising spells and enchantments to win from the gods of every possible world the death of the opposing halfback, completely unaware of the establishment, which wanted to keep them in a state of ecstatic enthusiasm, condemned to unreality.” Eco/Foucault

 

[dutch13]

Im dead.

The fact that he faked the lunar landing doesn't qualify as cheating at astronauting?

 

[forest1979]

you know dude...you can learn a lot about soccer in a library. The biggest insight into the game come from philosophers or social scientist not soccer players....
“Football is a ritual in which the disinherited expended their combative energy and sense of revolt, practising spells and enchantments to win from the gods of every possible world the death of the opposing halfback, completely unaware of the establishment, which wanted to keep them in a state of ecstatic enthusiasm, condemned to unreality.” Eco/Foucault

...and that is the biggest problem you have with football in Canada...you think you can learn about it in a library...total bollocks....I,m just off to read about ice hockey....the fact I cant skate is irrelevant.

 

[Rangerforever]

The fact you call it 'ice hockey' makes your point just as much mate.

Every time I go to England the Fastshow's kids call it Ice Hockey.
And each time I have to remind them of their Canadian roots and tell them - 'Lads, its just 'Hockey', and we're the best at it'.

 

[Soccer Coach]

...and that is the biggest problem you have with football in Canada...you think you can learn about it in a library...total bollocks....I,m just off to read about ice hockey....the fact I cant skate is irrelevant.

You would be surprised how much you can learn about the game from opening a book on philosophy, game theory or military strategy.
The ball is round. The game is supposed to last 90 minutes. Everything else about the game is pure theory.

 

[forest1979]

Yeppp! just like I said....read a book, everything is there....