VMSL Masters Solution

[Gomesy16]

In the past couple of years, we have seen the Master Premier Division go from 10 teams down to the current 8. Teams have been refusing promotion from Division 1, and Falconetti's has been struggling, to say the least, which leaves us with 7 competitive teams in Masters Premier.

Here's my solution: There are currently 10 teams in each of Division 1 and 2 and 8 in Premier. What if the VMSL makes 2 divisions of 14 teams? You take the top 6 Division 1 teams and promote them into Premier and the rest of the teams form Division 1. Two teams get relegated and promoted each season.

You would end up with lots of games for everyone and you wouldn't have a team like Falconetti's that is probably not enjoying their season in Premier this year. There might be a large quality gap overall from the top teams to the lower team in each division, but I think the gap would close over time.

Thoughts?

 

[Regs]

I think the situation is the same over in the FVSL Masters Prem, perhaps a solution is a blend of the 2 where you play each team twice in your own 'league' and then each team once in the other 'league'?

 

[dezza]

In the past couple of years, we have seen the Master Premier Division go from 10 teams down to the current 8. Teams have been refusing promotion from Division 1, and Falconetti's has been struggling, to say the least, which leaves us with 7 competitive teams in Masters Premier.

Here's my solution: There are currently 10 teams in each of Division 1 and 2 and 8 in Premier. What if the VMSL makes 2 divisions of 14 teams? You take the top 6 Division 1 teams and promote them into Premier and the rest of the teams form Division 1. Two teams get relegated and promoted each season.

You would end up with lots of games for everyone and you wouldn't have a team like Falconetti's that is probably not enjoying their season in Premier this year. There might be a large quality gap overall from the top teams to the lower team in each division, but I think the gap would close over time.

Thoughts?

I believe the Richmond League just did this in their Open Divisions. Would be worth checking in with them about how the experiment has gone, but anecdotally I heard from guys on one of the better teams that some of the games felt like a waste of time due to the huge gap in level.

 

[knvb]

I think the situation is the same over in the FVSL Masters Prem, perhaps a solution is a blend of the 2 where you play each team twice in your own 'league' and then each team once in the other 'league'?

THE EXACT same thing in the FVSL. Teams winning the M1 by Christmas, and turning around and threatening to fold when its their time to be promoted. Believe me when I say it has been debated at nauseam... it was asking (at the U21 level to start). Met with a stiff arm to the chops.

 

[LION]

Yah the massive gap in masters wouldn't be fun. The lower teams just start kicking and mistiming tackles with an extra 30lbs on them. If each league has 6-7 quality teams, I like Regs idea. VMSL and fvsl can finally work together on making improvements in the local game.

Or just play eachother 3 - 4 times each for years to come. And by year 3, "we have played these guys 10 times in the past 2.5 years". (Cup play and all included)

 

[Rangerforever]

I think an interlock idea would be great.

But I know which league would give the old

 

[akslop]

Most of the ACBC guys are master now?

Ghouse can finally see his dream through!

 

[knvb]

...

 

[cascadesoccer]

THE EXACT same thing in the FVSL. Teams winning the M1 by Christmas, and turning around and threatening to fold when its their time to be promoted. Believe me when I say it has been debated at nauseam... it was asking (at the U21 level to start). Met with a stiff arm to the chops.

Rangers syndrome?

 

[Dude]

You could almost make it a verb. "To Ranger".

verb
verb: ranger; 3rd person present: rangers; past tense: rangered; gerund or present participle: rangering; past participle: ranger
1. For a football (soccer) team to refuse promotion to superior standard division after having dominating the league it was playing in during the current season.

"Hey Donny, your team had a great season last year in M1, weren't you supposed to get promoted?"
"Yeah Johnny, we were, but when the league called to try and move us up, we just rangered them. LOL."​

2. Slang, another way of describing a dick move.

"Wow Donny, that was a total ranger move by you guys. LOL."

​

 

[Dude]

To wade into this debate, the reality is that the difference in quality between M1 & MP is no different than Open 1 and Open Premier. That said, the big difference between Masters and Open is, obviously, the amount of time one can dedicate to playing & training. Especially training.

I had no idea why good Masters squads needed 25+ guys signed until I’d played my first season. Then it was like every one of your teammates who’d been previously reliable, committed guys all of a sudden became flakes. I didn’t get it.

Then, like, overnight, I became one, too. Less willing to spend evenings training in the pissing rain, less willing to do it TWICE a week, less willing and able to fully dedicate to at least one game per week. And I was one of about 25 guys with the same opinion. Some are still keeners, most aren’t. Never mind the cruelty of fleeting fitness age brings.

So, M1 became perfect for most guys: a good standard of competition, but without everything you need to dedicate to in order to be competitive at MP. And you know what? Guys LIKE it.

Master Premier has definitely increased in quality over the past few years, too. Now there are fewer guys hanging on playing open till their late 30s to make the jump, but with that, you squeeze out the guys that are willing to do all those things to stay at the Premier level.

Just my 2 bits.

As for solution, a combined lower mainland MP division may just be the answer. Magic number at like 12, which would hopefully be long term sustainable, and leave it to both the VMSL and FVSL to every year find one team between the two leagues that wants to go up, and one to go down- just place them geographically where it makes sense.

Whereas on the proposed OPEN merger, the big debate was on who WOULD get in, on this one, you wouldn’t have much argument, maybe even a couple opting to get out.

And if you have the same guy who runs the FVSL Admin & Port Moody teams be involved, we could recycle a bunch of quality match fixing / abuse of authority accusations, too. WIN / WIN.

 

[cascadesoccer]

You could almost make it a verb. "To Ranger".

verb
verb: ranger; 3rd person present: rangers; past tense: rangered; gerund or present participle: rangering; past participle: ranger
1. For a football (soccer) team to refuse promotion to superior standard division after having dominating the league it was playing in during the current season.

"Hey Donny, your team had a great season last year in M1, weren't you supposed to get promoted?"
"Yeah Johnny, we were, but when the league called to try and move us up, we just rangered them. LOL."​

2. Slang, another way of describing a dick move.

"Wow Donny, that was a total ranger move by you guys. LOL."

​

Definitely deserving of a self high five.

 

[Dude]

I was actually so turned on, I gave myself a self-snap-off.

 

[peg leg]

For once I agree with Dude ( well maybe I have before). For many of us older guys who are too busy with kids and coaching and don't want to travel to find a Masters Prem team, we get stuck in the lower depths of open. The rich get richer as guys will travel to play at a higher level leaving this huge gap between teams of Prem and M1. Look at POCO this year in Prem. Yikes!

Gotta have a merged division between the VMSL and FVSL

 

[Dude]

Yeah, and you know what? I don't begrudge those guys that still want to play at their highest capable level, because they will be putting in the work to make sure they are up to the task. If MP does anything, it keeps players honest, and exposes those not up to the level. I just think that past 35, those guys are really the minority, whereas in Open, everyone is gunning for a spot in Premier- if they have the capability of playing there, that is. Once you hit 35, everything changes.

I can't remember the last time I trained for footy. My back just doesn't react well anymore to it. I can do all sorts of other non-soccer specific training, and be fine...but the minute I step on a pitch, I'm paying the price. I am currently fitter for running than I've been in about 10 years, but if I play one game, it takes me a solid 4-6 days to 100% recover. So, I play my 45 minutes every 2 weeks or so (currently not at all, fighting calf issues) and enjoy the M1 level for what it is...a reasonably high standard, playing with great teammates, against other likewise competitive players.

Yeah, I totally think a merging of the Master Premier divisions would solve all sorts of issues.

 

[Sir M]

Why would VMSL want to merge with FVSL...or vice versa for that matter?

 

[Dude]

I don't think that was suggested.

 

[Sir M]

See post 14

 

[Dude]

I think what's been suggested is merging the MP divisions of the two leagues, not the whole leagues themselves.

For the "why would" of that, see every other post in this thread.

 

[Sir M]

That is what I meant. Why would is still the question though.

Of course they do have cheaper gas out there.