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Div 2 VMSL Division 2/3/CAT CUP
- Thread starter Soccer Coach
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Blue and White Army
Well-Known Member
UBC Snipers 0-2 Vancouver Strikers
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #285
Ouch... I see that the pain of defeat has made you see the events in a different manner. It was a good game. I write game review later. It is too bad that you guys could not handle the pressure mentally and fell apart. Can you try to be gracious on defeat? I really have never seen a team swear and threaten people so much (i.e. fans, players, referees)
Threaten people?ur nuts.listen,luckily we have other thing to do with our lives,we forgot about it pretty quick.ur team doesn't want u as a coach, get dressed and go down stairs ur mother is calling.as I said campo deserved it,well done.u are a bad embassador.is it true one of ur players is signed in Fraser valley league as well?
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #287
Harps FC 0 - Campo Atletico 2
I will start by acknowledging that the VMSL League made the right move by bringing assistant referees to the our games. There is no doubt that this game would have gone out of control with only one referee. Offsides would have been impossible to call, and controlling the benches and fans would have been a very tough thing to do.
The referee crew did very well. They were very professional and did everything by the book. It was a really though game to handle (perhaps the most competitive and with more tempers that we ever had in the season).
From the technical and strategical point of view. The Harps were completely dominated and subdued from the start of the game. Campo players controlled the ball well. Most of the build ups were successful, most of the transitions into the attack were done quickly, and our veteran defence was extremely solid and precise.
The first goal was a textbook sequence. A penetrating pass to the forward. All the defenders and the goal keeper go towards him to press; the forwards simply passes the ball on the ground to the opposite winger who is running towards the net and blast the ball into the net.
The second goal was particularly good because our young wing calmly went to the touch line. He dribble two players and made a calm ground back pass to the running forward who slotted the ball in the bottom right corner.
However, the aspect that made them lose the game was the mental one. Their coaches/managers and players were on fire prior to the beginning of the game. We were putting our cones and warm up and they were walking by all with red faces throwing insults and provoking. The situation got so bad that the referee crew had to tell them to abandon the technical area and sent everybody outside. One of the players could not contain himself. He ran into our bench to get the ball for a throw in. He came insulting at us. He was so distracted that he went into the field to make the throw in. He confused the lines. Our players laughed at the situation. The referee called correctly the illegal throw, and he proceed to insult everyone including the referee. Straight red card.
With 10 players, the game became a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately, we missed a couple of clear chances (3 v 1 and 1 V 1 with the keeper). Our guys were tired. It was a well contested game.
This has been one of the most difficult games of the season. The thing that they did well and perhaps outplayed us was the running and tackling. They did not give up even with 10 guys. They really ran like horses and went hard in every single tackle. He knew this, so from the beginning we also tackled them hard and got a couple of yellow card. It was part of the plan to soften them up, but they came back with even harder tackles.
Overall, the better team won, but they should not feel defeated as they went down fighting really hard. We,and I always have respect for this tenacity.
Perhaps we knew that they were not going to be able to manage their tempers and fired them up and they fell for it.
I am very impressed with our guys, because they have done well against though opponents. Very well deserved for Campo to be in the Final. I am particularly pleased because our team did it playing good soccer (i.e. skill, team spirit, fighting spirit and not only about strength and speed).
I will start by acknowledging that the VMSL League made the right move by bringing assistant referees to the our games. There is no doubt that this game would have gone out of control with only one referee. Offsides would have been impossible to call, and controlling the benches and fans would have been a very tough thing to do.
The referee crew did very well. They were very professional and did everything by the book. It was a really though game to handle (perhaps the most competitive and with more tempers that we ever had in the season).
From the technical and strategical point of view. The Harps were completely dominated and subdued from the start of the game. Campo players controlled the ball well. Most of the build ups were successful, most of the transitions into the attack were done quickly, and our veteran defence was extremely solid and precise.
The first goal was a textbook sequence. A penetrating pass to the forward. All the defenders and the goal keeper go towards him to press; the forwards simply passes the ball on the ground to the opposite winger who is running towards the net and blast the ball into the net.
The second goal was particularly good because our young wing calmly went to the touch line. He dribble two players and made a calm ground back pass to the running forward who slotted the ball in the bottom right corner.
However, the aspect that made them lose the game was the mental one. Their coaches/managers and players were on fire prior to the beginning of the game. We were putting our cones and warm up and they were walking by all with red faces throwing insults and provoking. The situation got so bad that the referee crew had to tell them to abandon the technical area and sent everybody outside. One of the players could not contain himself. He ran into our bench to get the ball for a throw in. He came insulting at us. He was so distracted that he went into the field to make the throw in. He confused the lines. Our players laughed at the situation. The referee called correctly the illegal throw, and he proceed to insult everyone including the referee. Straight red card.
With 10 players, the game became a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately, we missed a couple of clear chances (3 v 1 and 1 V 1 with the keeper). Our guys were tired. It was a well contested game.
This has been one of the most difficult games of the season. The thing that they did well and perhaps outplayed us was the running and tackling. They did not give up even with 10 guys. They really ran like horses and went hard in every single tackle. He knew this, so from the beginning we also tackled them hard and got a couple of yellow card. It was part of the plan to soften them up, but they came back with even harder tackles.
Overall, the better team won, but they should not feel defeated as they went down fighting really hard. We,and I always have respect for this tenacity.
Perhaps we knew that they were not going to be able to manage their tempers and fired them up and they fell for it.
I am very impressed with our guys, because they have done well against though opponents. Very well deserved for Campo to be in the Final. I am particularly pleased because our team did it playing good soccer (i.e. skill, team spirit, fighting spirit and not only about strength and speed).
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #289
Thank you for the wishes. I hope that we play you again in the future. It was good competition. The team certainly enjoyed the challenge.
Watched bits and pieces of both the Semi final games. Strikers played very solid and were full credit for the win. I am surprised they were not promoted. Campo dominated possession and eventually frustrated a hard working Harps team. To the Harps players credit, they worked hard for 90 minutes. As far as the "Irish Banter" was concerned it did not seem to help the cause although it was amusing. The Strikers / Campo final should be a cracker...
Rino's Hat
New Member
Strikers were just unlucky this year to be drawn on the tougher Div 2B side, would probably have gotten promoted out of 2A
GN, NorVan, Snipers, and Campo are capable of beating all of the 2B teams on the day.
Definitely going to watch this final!
See you at the game @True Lies
See you at the game @True Lies
Cool As Ice
New Member
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Having seen both sides play, the top teams as well as the bottom, I think div 2A was definitely the tougher side this year. Typically when a team has a couple of premier players in addition to a couple of div1 players (i.e. Tanoa) they tend to compete for first place which definitely wasn't the case in div2 A and that's because so many of the teams are quality. Not taking away anything from Div2 B, I think this has been the most competitive Div2 has been ever in general, but I'd give the edge to Div2 A.
Not sure if you actually saw the Strikers match @ Rino's Hat (or much of the Div2 A games) but it was a fairly even match, with 2 missed breakaways and a penalty for snipers, but I'd say Strikers did deserve that win and are a quality side. However, I do think Rino's would definitely have had a harder time getting promoted in Div2 A, but congrats on the promotion anyways. It'll be interesting to see how you guys manage the 3 teams in one division.
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #295
Interesting posts. For motivational reasons, I would tend to agree with @Rino's Hat, as this would give us an added incentive to keep working hard. Campo will be in a final as the underdog according to the Rino's pundits.
However, the evidence would tend to support the position of @Cool As Ice and @True Lies.
1) Indirect pairings. Campo 2 - Harps 0. Campo was the dominant team without doubt. Harps 6 - Rino 3 (on aggregate - 1 win for Harps, 1 win for Rino, 1 draw). This suggests that Harps and Rino are about even. Thus, Campo is better than the top division 2B team.
In addition, Campo has been of similar strength as of Norvan and GN; thus, we can conclude that Norvan and GN should be stronger than Rinos as well.
2) Statistical Data.
Both divisions have the same average number of points per team. It is about 29 for both divisions.
However, both divisions have a different ranges. Division 2a has a range of 29 and Division 2b has a range of 49. This is huge! It means that Division 2a has more internal competition.
In addition, the standard deviations are different. They do not have a ratio of 1
However, the evidence would tend to support the position of @Cool As Ice and @True Lies.
1) Indirect pairings. Campo 2 - Harps 0. Campo was the dominant team without doubt. Harps 6 - Rino 3 (on aggregate - 1 win for Harps, 1 win for Rino, 1 draw). This suggests that Harps and Rino are about even. Thus, Campo is better than the top division 2B team.
In addition, Campo has been of similar strength as of Norvan and GN; thus, we can conclude that Norvan and GN should be stronger than Rinos as well.
2) Statistical Data.
Both divisions have the same average number of points per team. It is about 29 for both divisions.
However, both divisions have a different ranges. Division 2a has a range of 29 and Division 2b has a range of 49. This is huge! It means that Division 2a has more internal competition.
In addition, the standard deviations are different. They do not have a ratio of 1
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #297
However, the most interesting question is why the people of Rinos keep insisting that Division 2B is stronger than 2A when the evidence suggests that it is otherwise or at best the same strength? What is their motive? What they hope to accomplish with the creation of this myth?
I suspect that it has to do with the fact that their teams got eliminated from cup competition very early.
In addition, there is the issue of the number of teams in division 1. A very logical policy should be the limitation of one team per club in division 1. The VMSL could easily expand this policy from Premier to Division 1. This would open two spots. Rino should amalgamate their teams and create one team with a supporting cat team. The three or four new teams in division 1 should go to Vancouver Strikers and a combination of Norvan, GN, and Campo.
I am considering to propose this change to the VMSL. This would increase competition and allow very good teams to be in Division 1.
What do you think? Should we make this proposal to the VMSL?
I suspect that it has to do with the fact that their teams got eliminated from cup competition very early.
In addition, there is the issue of the number of teams in division 1. A very logical policy should be the limitation of one team per club in division 1. The VMSL could easily expand this policy from Premier to Division 1. This would open two spots. Rino should amalgamate their teams and create one team with a supporting cat team. The three or four new teams in division 1 should go to Vancouver Strikers and a combination of Norvan, GN, and Campo.
I am considering to propose this change to the VMSL. This would increase competition and allow very good teams to be in Division 1.
What do you think? Should we make this proposal to the VMSL?
Rino's Hat
New Member
This reasoning is delicious, so if Team A beats Team B then Team A is better than every team that Team B has beaten, tied, or even not beaten by as big a margin (as is every team that is 'similar strength' to Team A). We could all find examples of this to suit us, so let's get to the cold hard stats of it all...
Strange how both divisions have the same average points, what forces could be at work here? Barring an inordinate amount of tied games I would say both leagues are destined to have approximately the same average points per team. I ran an in depth study and found that premier average around 29pts/team also, so they are about as good as Div 2? I also found that if you add up the average pts/team of both divisions, then divide that by the number of leagues in division 2 you get 29 as well, spooky.
As for using range to assess quality, you may want to throw out GFC as an 'outlier' on 5pts, and reign in that 2B range. Now the comparison is 29 to 34... so, ehm, well yeah, the meaningless stat is slightly closer now.
But you got me, the standard deviations don't equate. Did you come up with this on your own, or have you had help from the Football Manager algorithm coding team at Sports Interactive?
Canucks4Ever
Well-Known Member
Actually on this one he's not as super nuts as usual.
As long as you have the data to input (ie league tables) Excel can do most of the work for you and spit out some nice looking graphs.
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